Improvements...

[Mythabay]

Speaking of not understanding lol....

There is NOTHING wrong with Flying, it's been around since 2006! It is awesome and extremely helpful!

[MagusHenosis]

It's not that there is something "wrong" with flying, but rather that I personally feel that the game would be "better" if it wasn't even in the game anymore.

I know this sounds extreme, but it really does make you encounter players FAR MORE out in the world to NOT be flying around way up high in the air, where you can't even be attacked really.

The reason many don't like the idea, is because it then becomes much harder to escape from say.......myself lol!!!

It's already hard enough to escape from me as it is OK.......so ya, I can understand why people don't want to be ground bound around me.

How about become more hardcore there y'all???

[TheWorkingTitle]

What's wrong with Flying, and the Blizz Store. I reckon there should be ways to get mounts, pets, etc. in-game but you can also get them in Blizz Store, for varying prices depending on rarity.

Flying is one of the biggest mistakes ever put into the game. It makes the world irreparably small, allows content to be completely skipped, and ruined world pvp. It's akin to having GM powers on a private server.

And fuck the blizzard store. There shouldn't be microtranscations in a subscription based game. Period. All the mounts that they milk their whales with could have been put into the game as rewards for various achievements/dungeons/raids/pvp. In WoD, for example, the Grinning Reaver mount would have been the ideal mount for the Laughing Skull reputation, but instead we got re-skinned wolf. It shows where Blizzard's priorities were/are.

[Hitei]

Would your crafters be able to dungeon/raid/pvp? Like, would they be able to make up for their lack of offensive skills by crafting unique super weapons or something?

Sort of, yes.

It's unlikely you'd see a crafter on your A team progression roster (because they'd be less effective in raw output than a similarly geared/skilled player on a regular character) But once a guild has a boss sort of "down" I'd imagine that the guild would look towards bringing in a crafter for some fights, so that they'd have a good shot at the mats and a crafted item better than what they can get off those bosses.

It would be sort of like a 'soft' hardmode for instances. Taking a crafter would make an encounter more difficult number wise, but end up giving you better rewards.

I'm sure there would be some stigma (particularly in very high end or just released content) about taking crafters, but I think it would be easy enough to convince people to let you tag along for the chance at you crafting them better stuff. A win-win. And of course, once people have a bit of gear, demand for crafters would increase, because they want upgrades and they're comfortable enough with the instances to take that hit to damage/healing/(dunno if you'd see many tanks).

PvP would be interesting but probably work in a similar manner? I guess rather than serious upgrades, you'd be looking more at visual/cosmetic possibilities from those mats. It might be neat to see a super badass two-hand sword on someone and know that they were doing arenas with a crafter on their team or what-have-you.

[MagusHenosis]

Flying is one of the biggest mistakes ever put into the game. It makes the world irreparably small, allows content to be completely skipped, and ruined world pvp. It's akin to having GM powers on a private server.

And fuck the blizzard store. There shouldn't be microtranscations in a subscription based game. Period. All the mounts that they milk their whales with could have been put into the game as rewards for various achievements/dungeons/raids/pvp. In WoD, for example, the Grinning Reaver mount would have been the ideal mount for the Laughing Skull reputation, but instead we got re-skinned wolf. It shows where Blizzard's priorities were/are.

I have to admit that it very much does "ruin world pvp."

Once the pathfinders went active the last two xpacks, I noticed a MASSIVE difference in how good WPvP was, and then when you go to Argus, it's good again lol (in the context of how much "action" you get)!!! (But there is an EXTREME lack of balance there Blizzard, and it is ruining PvP in general).

[Yelmurc]

Goblin casinos with Texas holder tables, cards could be warcraft themed but let us bet gold and become poker champions of Azeroth.

[KayRule]

If we are gonna keep the lorewise powercreep and become warchief or something, it is only fitting that our character is able to date sylvanas or magatha

I wanna date Jandice Barov or Vanessa VanCleef or Sally Whitemane. Or heck, any Garrison/Order Hall follower, Soulbinder Tuulani, the Eredar Twins, the list goes on.

[MagusHenosis]

What a thread.

Do you want to know what people REALLY think there Blizz???

If so, then it's best to just ask them that straight up lol.

I made a "top 5 suggestions to improve Mage" thread back in the day on the official boards that was VERY popular, and it provided Blizz with tons of accurate feedback on how people saw Mage.

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Sort of, yes.

It's unlikely you'd see a crafter on your A team progression roster (because they'd be less effective in raw output than a similarly geared/skilled player on a regular character) But once a guild has a boss sort of "down" I'd imagine that the guild would look towards bringing in a crafter for some fights, so that they'd have a good shot at the mats and a crafted item better than what they can get off those bosses.

It would be sort of like a 'soft' hardmode for instances. Taking a crafter would make an encounter more difficult number wise, but end up giving you better rewards.

I'm sure there would be some stigma (particularly in very high end or just released content) about taking crafters, but I think it would be easy enough to convince people to let you tag along for the chance at you crafting them better stuff. A win-win. And of course, once people have a bit of gear, demand for crafters would increase, because they want upgrades and they're comfortable enough with the instances to take that hit to damage/healing/(dunno if you'd see many tanks).

PvP would be interesting but probably work in a similar manner? I guess rather than serious upgrades, you'd be looking more at visual/cosmetic possibilities from those mats. It might be neat to see a super badass two-hand sword on someone and know that they were doing arenas with a crafter on their team or what-have-you.

I REALLY like the idea though, and it is one of the best and most interesting ones that I have seen in the community in quite a while.

I see NO problem with crafted only really high end gear, as long as the gear isn't totally unfair, like how say Stormherald was.

Diversity in general is a good thing in my opinion, and this would clearly add diversity to the game.

Why shouldn't crafters be making really good gear???

And why shouldn't the very best crafters be less good at combat, since logically they would be spending LOTS of time on crafting, leaving them less time to train in combat???

This is how real life is as well guys, and honestly, IN WAYS I think that WoW very much NEEDS more realism when it comes to things like this.

LFR/LFG???

It doesn't seem realistic at all to me lol, to port from Argus to a BG, with the LFG tool.

It's just magic???

OK, but what Magic lol???

Where is the spell???

There isn't one???

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baine]

I would completely remake professions and turn them into an extremely hardcore part of the game.

Rather than just something any character can pick up, you would need to level a profession-based character from scratch, because going into the profession would directly take away from your combat potential. A crafter would be its own specialized form of character. Raising your skill would require a lot of patience, dedication and investment.

Common mats (copper, leystone, etc) would produce white items, rarer materials would produce greens, and then blue + would be produced from special recipes and rare mats from dungeons and the like. These mats (not soulbound) would have a chance to drop for anyone (very, very low). So you might do a dungeon and a boss might drop a special ingot or a gem, or whatever, and you could potentially sell it, or potentially take it to a crafter yourself to get a very nice item out of it. Crafters brought into dungeons would dramatically increase the drop-rate of such items for their given profession, but it would still not be guaranteed.

Things like class and race would have small effects on the items you produce, changing damage type of proc effects, or shifting tertiary/secondary stats, etc. And occasionally quests (particularly more challenging or involved quest chains) would require the skills of a particular profession to create a quest item, or repair it, or what not.

Rather than just a side thing you can do quickly on an alt for some gold, it would be an alternate way to play the game with its style of advancement, in a sort of support role for raiders and the general player base. Sufficiently tedious and investment heavy that it wouldn't be rewarding for most people, but would be for people who enjoy that kind of thing.

Welcome to 2004.

[zlygork]

Sort of, yes.

It's unlikely you'd see a crafter on your A team progression roster (because they'd be less effective in raw output than a similarly geared/skilled player on a regular character) But once a guild has a boss sort of "down" I'd imagine that the guild would look towards bringing in a crafter for some fights, so that they'd have a good shot at the mats and a crafted item better than what they can get off those bosses.

It would be sort of like a 'soft' hardmode for instances. Taking a crafter would make an encounter more difficult number wise, but end up giving you better rewards.

I'm sure there would be some stigma (particularly in very high end or just released content) about taking crafters, but I think it would be easy enough to convince people to let you tag along for the chance at you crafting them better stuff. A win-win. And of course, once people have a bit of gear, demand for crafters would increase, because they want upgrades and they're comfortable enough with the instances to take that hit to damage/healing/(dunno if you'd see many tanks).

PvP would be interesting but probably work in a similar manner? I guess rather than serious upgrades, you'd be looking more at visual/cosmetic possibilities from those mats. It might be neat to see a super badass two-hand sword on someone and know that they were doing arenas with a crafter on their team or what-have-you.

I'd be very down with that

[Hitei]

Welcome to 2004.

Not at all.

Crafting was much more involved, time/resource consuming and purposeful, but you did not have to specialize a character for crafting at the expense of doing other stuff well (beyond gold cost). End game crafting items were good, but even within Vanilla were overshadowed fairly quickly. The high end drops were scattered and only an isolated few items useful for a few specific people.

Professions were handled better in Vanilla than they have been since (one of the very few things that applies to) but that system is not really equivalent to what I was proposing.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

#1 thing I would change is forcing everyone giving feedback on the game to have their armory and achievement points attached to every post.

To go further, I might make mandatory requirements for certain forums too. 9/9 Heroic for raid forum, 20k achievement points for general feedback etc.

[Talvindius]

I would return to making proving grounds mandatory for all queued content, and I would make Gold rank necessary to queue for LFR.

It would just keep things running smoothly. It's also nice for players who don't know their class well enough to perform to get a nice wake up call that it's time to get gud, at least good enough for gold.

- - - Updated - - -

#1 thing I would change is forcing everyone giving feedback on the game to have their armory and achievement points attached to every post.

To go further, I might make mandatory requirements for certain forums too. 9/9 Heroic for raid forum, 20k achievement points for general feedback etc.

This is the kind of shit I like because of how it shames people, but will never happen because it shames people.

It would do a lot for the game in terms of feedback though.

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There is NOTHING wrong with Flying, it's been around since 2006! It is awesome and extremely helpful!

This is the most 2nd grade sentence I've ever seen.

Flying is great, but people complaining whenever they don't have flying is shitty and needs to stop. Flying is also a luxury and isn't necessary for the game to be good.

Argus is a great zone because you don't even miss flying, it's limited enough that you don't feel like it's too big and there are quick travel ports fuckin everywhere. Replace flying with quick travel and the game would be just as good.

Flying also ruins world pvp. Fuck that.

[Zerenty]

I would remove rogues. This is something everyone can agree on

[Deleted]

Bring back all the old world bosses, and actually allow me to see Kazzak and Doomwalker again in BC. I assume they are still there, but as they are camped and die as they spawn, it would be nicer for a quicker respawn. I want my Ethereum Nexus Reaper!

Also, I would like to bring back the kinds of quests for the original Quel'Serrar, Benediction, Lokrethemamrmamraer (whatever the hunter one was called), but I kind of missed those tricky questlines with a really cool and unique reward. I don't actually want these ones specifically, but if say a warrior was tasked with hunting down a kick ass mace, or a mage was seeking a lost tome that become a cool on effect trinket, that would be nice.

I know these kind of morphed into the expansion long legendaries (like the ring and cloak), but a bit more flavour in that department would be cool. They don't even have to the ridiculous OP kinds of items, just a nice background, look cool and are strong enough to justify the efforts to get them. I did the priest one, and I believe the Hunter one was a challenge too.

[Ghargatuloth]

Speaking of not understanding lol....

Yes, that is correct... They do not understand. But the problem is that neither do you.

Very true it is that flying completely destroyed anyone's hope for World PvP, by the beginning of Cataclysm it was pretty much gone.

But on the other hand, many within WoW's fanbase don't actually even play on PvP realms. Flying or not you do not have to engage in PvP on anything other than PvP or RPPvP realms. So those who don't understand, simply do not because the only difference to them is a lack of mobility.

As for the rest of the suggestions, such as "no group/raid finder" and what not... I feel like Blizzard has stated that they intend to solve that and the vanilla problem at some point by making what you two are suggesting into their "Prestine Servers".

To my knowledge a Prestine Server would function alone, requiring the community of the server to band together, rather than take short cuts like Group Finder, I also imagine flight might be disabled on a Prestine PvP realm. I feel like it would work out well for those who want more of a challenge and to have random bouts of PvP in the world.

To be honest, anyone who hopes Blizzard will force PvP and take away flight for everyone is LIKELY the type of person who wants to force those who do not wish to PvP into a scenario where they cannot avoid it. That or they hope to just sit there and camp people for giggles.

[Echocho]

I'd try to fix the power creep. We shouldn't even be past 100k yet.

If we get a 25% increase in power each tier (which feels like a lot) we'd be at 85k now. That should tell you something about how fucked up the power gains have been through out the years.

[Daedius]

A system that also rewards persistence and commitment, instead of strictly relying on RNG.

Example;

For mounts off raids or dungeons, either raise the chance by 1% each week upon failure of mount being dropped... or have a fragment of the mount where upon collecting, say, 50 fragments (i.e. 50 weeks) will give you the mount.

[Armourboy]

Not at all.

Crafting was much more involved, time/resource consuming and purposeful, but you did not have to specialize a character for crafting at the expense of doing other stuff well (beyond gold cost). End game crafting items were good, but even within Vanilla were overshadowed fairly quickly. The high end drops were scattered and only an isolated few items useful for a few specific people.

Professions were handled better in Vanilla than they have been since (one of the very few things that applies to) but that system is not really equivalent to what I was proposing.

Actually he's right, just not in WoW.

Your idea is exactly what Professions were in SWG. You had XP trees for 32 professions I think it was. Anything from a Pistoleer, to a Bounty Hunter, to an Architect, to a Bio Engineer. You had a limited number of points, and you could put them in whatever skills you wanted. So you could be a full on Crafter ( Architect/Merchant), a partial crafter ( Architect/Rifleman ) or full on combat ( Fencer/Tera Kasi ), it was just up to you what you wanted to do.

I tell you what, if you like hard core crafting and never played that game Pre-CU, man you missed out. There has never been an MMO as robust as that when it comes to crafting. Heck you could spend hours just surveying for what mat had what stat that month/day/week. ( Crafting mats all had 5-6 stats on them, and the closer they were to 1000, they better).

I'm surprised no one has really stolen that concept, because it was probably one of the things they did right out of that mess they created. Granted, most games probably aren't sandbox enough for that to work.

[Eurhetemec]

As for the rest of the suggestions, such as "no group/raid finder" and what not... I feel like Blizzard has stated that they intend to solve that and the vanilla problem at some point by making what you two are suggesting into their "Prestine Servers".

To my knowledge a Prestine Server would function alone, requiring the community of the server to band together, rather than take short cuts like Group Finder, I also imagine flight might be disabled on a Prestine PvP realm. I feel like it would work out well for those who want more of a challenge and to have random bouts of PvP in the world.

To be honest, anyone who hopes Blizzard will force PvP and take away flight for everyone is LIKELY the type of person who wants to force those who do not wish to PvP into a scenario where they cannot avoid it. That or they hope to just sit there and camp people for giggles.

Do you mean "Pristine" (as in clean) or "Prestige" (as special, important)? Or is "Prestine" a sort of portmanteau of both?

Frankly, having played MMOs since 1999, I am skeptical of this kind of idea. It's the sort of thing people often come up with, and which sounds interesting on paper, and huge numbers of people say they want, but which flops miserably in practice. It's always something or another, and basically what people want is a "more hardcore" experience. I've been one of the people begging for it before.

DAoC's devs were particularly responsive to this - if players demanded a new way to play, they provided it. Until they realized that players were full of shit.

The pattern is always the same:

1) Small, vocal part of the community demands a specific, more hardcore, server-type, usually but not always one that is in some way a "throwback" to how the game was earlier, and that may have more restrictions than normal as well.

2) Devs agree and launch a server or multiple servers with the new setup.

3) Servers are wildly overpopulated, massive queues, at first. Everyone is super-excited, everything seems to be going great.

4) Within 2-4 months, population has gone down hugely. Loads of people have just gone back to their old servers because their friends/guilds didn't come with them, and ultimately it's a social game. Many other people have gone back because it turns out removing the stuff they wanted removing, making the game more hardcore? It didn't cure their ennui. Their boredom or unhappiness or whatever ran deeper than these features. Other people find that, actually, they liked those features, not that they'll ever admit it.

5) The servers have a workable population for a few more months, maybe a year in total, before they're actual ghost-towns. New people do excitedly join them, but find they are ghost-towns, and leave.

Now very occasionally, a server does catch on and survive, but it's pretty rare.

The specific "more hardcore" example for me was with DAoC's "Classic" servers (the equivalent would very roughly be WoW servers which stopped at TBC, maaaaybe Wrath - it's a little different because DAoC always had a max level of 50). Basically they removed an expansion, and it's associated gear, and associated abilities/progression from the game, and they also had some severe limits which prevented people using "buffbots" much (i.e. characters who existed, usually ungrouped, solely to provide buffs to other characters). This was entirely more hardcore, old-school, "proper RvR" (i.e. largescale PvP) oriented deal.

Everyone was super-excited, especially me! I was the first Shaman to reach max level on my server (Gareth), formed a guild, invited cool players, and we were the most successful guild in Mid, at least in terms of winning fights and getting RPs (the max-level PvP progression system). The excitement lasted maybe three months. By then, people had started dropping away. Peak pops had noticeably declined, and so on. And why? For the reasons I described earlier - people went back to their friends/guilds, people found that less wasn't more, for them, that the more hardcore life wasn't what they wanted. After four-five months, even I was pretty burned out.

I've seen the same pattern with "hardcore" or "special rules" servers over and over in the history of MMOs. DAoC did have one strange exception - Gaheris - a server which took out the RvR and replaced it a strange sort of tough competitive PvE. That is literally still running at time of writing - only it and what, a handful of normal (not "Classic") RvR servers still are.

I suspect Blizzard have seen that in roughly 90% of cases, "hardcore" or "special rules" servers (beyond those that a game launches with) tend to rapidly dwindle, which is why we have yet to see any from them, given they'd also require a decent investment in balancing and so on.

I'm surprised no one has really stolen that concept, because it was probably one of the things they did right out of that mess they created. Granted, most games probably aren't sandbox enough for that to work.

That's the thing though - for "full-time crafter" to work as a class, you really need a solidly sandbox (rather than theme park) game, and players need to be reliant on them to some extent. If you drew games on a spectrum, WoW would be pretty far towards the "theme park" end of it, and early SWG pretty far into "sandbox".