do we need to farm AP daily to get 75 artifact level @Antorus launch?

[Gaidax]

Why do you need 75 artifact power level?

Reality is there is still very little difference between for example 72 and 75. All you get is a tiny bit better proc and 1 trait point.on artifact trait.

That's really nothing, in your wildest dream it's like ~1.5% DPS if that. Thats nothing, you won't need it for anything but bleeding edge Mythic progress.

That coupled with a fact that I am 68 doing nothing but table missions and weekly dung, makes me pretty confident that I'll get to 72 in time and 75 is not THAT big of a deal from there, I'd be getting upgrades frikkin' daily anyway so 1% here or there won't matter, especially when because we're not bleeding edge Mythic guild.

[klaps_05]

Why do you need 75 artifact power level?

For pugs of course!

LFM ANT HC for Curve, 955+, link curve and 75 traits!

[shaunika123]

well im at 70 traits with doing every raid every week every LFR and every AP quest

but nothing else (no m0 runs, no pvp etc)

I'm basically at about 1 trait a week, so will have it like 3-4 weeks before antorus launches

so no you dont need to farm it daily, but you also cant slack off on it if u want it by antorus

and if you want two specs on 75 you definitely need to put in some work

Why do you need 75 artifact power level?

Reality is there is still very little difference between for example 72 and 75. All you get is a tiny bit better proc and 1 trait point.on artifact trait.

That's really nothing, in your wildest dream it's like ~1.5% DPS if that. Thats nothing, you won't need it for anything but bleeding edge Mythic progress.

That coupled with a fact that I am 68 doing nothing but table missions and weekly dung, makes me pretty confident that I'll get to 72 in time and 75 is not THAT big of a deal from there, I'd be getting upgrades frikkin' daily anyway so 1% here or there won't matter, especially when because we're not bleeding edge Mythic guild.

i like how you ask a question and answer it in the same post

also, it's still an RPG, people like to max out their characters, just because you're not in method doesnt mean you cant make the most out of it

[xcess]

Its actually the ppl in lfr who need any help they can get

[Swalload]

edit: @JohnRoads fixed math

Im not that into math but since many said we can just chill at Artifact level 66 , I decided to double check it.

Assuming that 7.3.5 aka antorus is released at 14. November:

from artifact level 66 to 75 we need 875b-ish AP

if we farm 27.4b this week and 27.4*1,3 the following weeks (aka next week 35,6b, the week after 46,28b... etc), we'll be at 877b on heroic antorus launch.
We will get about 32b total from weekly chest. (forgot what difficulty was necessary to get 1b ap in this weeks chest but it was +10-12 range)

Also, let's not make people believe artifact 75 is anywhere close to a requirement to do, finish and farm Antorus even on heroic.

[Emerald Archer]

Also, let's not make people believe artifact 75 is anywhere close to a requirement to do, finish and farm Antorus even on heroic.

It's a good goal for any half-serious mythic raiders.

[david0925]

It's a good goal for any half-serious mythic raiders.

It is, but at the same time it is at best a 1% dps increase if you are lucky enough to get your best trait/second best and your best trait makes that big of an impact. In other cases it is a defensive or a even more negligible trait.

Having a goal is fine and I do plan on hitting 75 before or at Antorus, but let's not overstate its importance.

[dcc626]

It is, but at the same time it is at best a 1% dps increase if you are lucky enough to get your best trait/second best and your best trait makes that big of an impact. In other cases it is a defensive or a even more negligible trait.

Having a goal is fine and I do plan on hitting 75 before or at Antorus, but let's not overstate its importance.

the difference between no crucible traits and crucible traits for me (at 72pts) is about 12.5% increase. a little more than 1%.

i have parses where my tier 2 traits do 9-15% of my damage. the good ones are really good.

[Emerald Archer]

It is, but at the same time it is at best a 1% dps increase if you are lucky enough to get your best trait/second best and your best trait makes that big of an impact. In other cases it is a defensive or a even more negligible trait.

Having a goal is fine and I do plan on hitting 75 before or at Antorus, but let's not overstate its importance.

1% of 1.7mil is 17k, really not something to dismiss. Also I think some specs would EASILY have over 1%. As MMs best trait is worth 3 ilvls (15k dps), slightly under 1%, where other specs have traits worth Up to 8 ilvls (ofc some of their weapons scale worse, so ilvls aren't worth as much dps) but for plenty of specs, it will be worth over 1% dps.

To some people, 1% dps is quite valuable. 20ilvls on an arcano is worth 1% dps. And you see how keen people are for that.

It's not be all and end all, by any means. But 1% for such little effort, seems like a no-brainer.

[Gaidax]

i like how you ask a question and answer it in the same post

also, it's still an RPG, people like to max out their characters, just because you're not in method doesnt mean you cant make the most out of it

Then go ahead and do it, you have the means to do it. It's RPG right? If you want to max out your character you need to spend time there, that's how it works.

But the fact is you don't need to "max out" anything there, ever since this system is in Legion people keep up this nonsense, as if not having 1 single artifact trait here or there will make any sort of difference for any of you.

It's purely self-satisfaction of maxing out shit, it effectively does not matter and you don't have to have 75 traits for Antrorus, while something like 70ish will be simple from table missions and weekly activity.

There is maybe like 1000 people in the world for whom this single trait will make a difference, that's all.

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1% of 1.7mil is 17k, really not something to dismiss. Also I think some specs would EASILY have over 1%. As MMs best trait is worth 3 ilvls (15k dps), slightly under 1%, where other specs have traits worth Up to 8 ilvls (ofc some of their weapons scale worse, so ilvls aren't worth as much dps) but for plenty of specs, it will be worth over 1% dps.

To some people, 1% dps is quite valuable. 20ilvls on an arcano is worth 1% dps. And you see how keen people are for that.

It's not be all and end all, by any means. But 1% for such little effort, seems like a no-brainer.

In the grand scale of things it is nothing for anyone who is not a bleeding edge raider. It's the usual WoW thing, where fly is made into elephant.

Reality 1% or even 2% is such a small difference that claiming that it is end all must have is silly.

For most people here they'd get much more % from improving their personal gameplay.

[shaunika123]

Then go ahead and do it, you have the means to do it. It's RPG right? If you want to max out your character you need to spend time there, that's how it works.

But the fact is you don't need to "max out" anything there, ever since this system is in Legion people keep up this nonsense, as if not having 1 single artifact trait here or there will make any sort of difference for any of you.
.

noone said you needed to max them out tho did they?

if you're am ythic raider you do but that's about it

[Softbottom]

I'm at 69 on my main weapon and I literally do fuck all on my main character right now and have done fuck all for the last 2 months. I do one +10 and maybe a heroic tos clear (normally only 1-3 bosses targeting an item). I do the Argus WQ's prob 5 of 7 days. If you have been playing actively on your main there should be no reason to not hit 75 before antorus.

[Emerald Archer]

In the grand scale of things it is nothing for anyone who is not a bleeding edge raider. It's the usual WoW thing, where fly is made into elephant.

Reality 1% or even 2% is such a small difference that claiming that it is end all must have is silly.

For most people here they'd get much more % from improving their personal gameplay.

No one is saying non-mythic raiders should be concerned about it. I even said that it's a good goal for any semi-serious mythic raider.

The reason 1% IS something, is because if you stopped caring about 1%s, you would be a lot weaker in power than others.
It's 1+% for min maxing your gear, 1+% for wearing the right enchants, 1+% for spending time farming that bis relinq trinket, 1+% for traits, it all adds up. So by overall putting in the effort, you end up noticeably stronger.

Again, this only applys to people who take mythic raiding seriously. Not people who can't play their spec and would gain a large amount of dps from just learning how to play.

If you aren't 9/9M right now, there really isn't a rush for you to get 75 traits by antorus mythic opening. Some might want to, because they want to put in the extra effort. Good on them. But it isn't a big thing.

[david0925]

the difference between no crucible traits and crucible traits for me (at 72pts) is about 12.5% increase. a little more than 1%.

i have parses where my tier 2 traits do 9-15% of my damage. the good ones are really good.

i was only commenting about the tier 3 traits. I'm aware the tier 2 dps traits are very good and actually outweights most of the tier 3 traits.Most reasonable raiders already have all 3 tier 2 unlocked at this point, let alone Antorus

The issue with these (both tier 2 and tier 3) are still the RNG involved. Looking at best in case scenario is fine, but when you look at a raid of 20 people where some people will have good traits and some will have bad traits, you're probably looking at 1-2% raid dps increase overall when accounting for all 3 tier 3 traits, on average.

It is good, but I think assessing how good they are on average (because very few people are lucky enough to get bis tier 3 traits on all 3 relics) is important too.

[klaps_05]

Also, let's not make people believe artifact 75 is anywhere close to a requirement to do, finish and farm Antorus even on heroic.

Woah, hold on buddy, link 75 traits for Normal pls!

[Gaidax]

No one is saying non-mythic raiders should be concerned about it. I even said that it's a good goal for any semi-serious mythic raider.

The reason 1% IS something, is because if you stopped caring about 1%s, you would be a lot weaker in power than others.
It's 1+% for min maxing your gear, 1+% for wearing the right enchants, 1+% for spending time farming that bis relinq trinket, 1+% for traits, it all adds up. So by overall putting in the effort, you end up noticeably stronger.

Our guild is 2 nights guild at 8/9 and 479th spot world. Can I consider myself "semi-serious mythic raider" or that's only KJ kill first/second month club?

Let's not exaggerate. the fact that I am lukewarm about 75 power level trait does not mean that I am going into encounters unenchanted and unoptimized randomly pressing buttons, it's simply a case of recognizing that one specific thing which you will reach anyway is by no means any sort of requirement even for mythic raiders, unless you are REALLY in the race for firsts there.

Reality is that most valid kills are not made thanks to a couple of raiders not having 1% gap from fully optimal, such kills are really just fluke luck kills. That's why this 1% is simply insignificant, it realistically does not matter both because kills to THAT tight extent barely exist and even then RNG and skill have significantly more impact than some 1% average.

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The issue with these (both tier 2 and tier 3) are still the RNG involved. Looking at best in case scenario is fine, but when you look at a raid of 20 people where some people will have good traits and some will have bad traits, you're probably looking at 1-2% raid dps increase overall when accounting for all 3 tier 3 traits, on average.

IMO it's exactly the opposite, it's annoying on a personal level when you get shit traits, but when you are talking about 20 man raid, really... what are the chances of EVERYONE or even majority getting horrible bonuses across the board? Reality is that raidgroup overall will even-out or actually be on a positive side overall (because you do have a choice after all and really what chance is there that all the choices are terrible?).

When you are talking personal level, that can happen, where just everything is not going your way, although it is really bad RNG and I am sure most end up fine (unless something like 0.3% DPS suboptimal trait inflicts physical pain on you).

When you take than into account and the fact that something as little as getting extra level of warforged with some luck on one of your items probably balances out your bad luck otherwise, it's really not a big deal. Encounter RNG and skill produce much larger and actually visible gaps, reality is if you will suck on some encounter then it won't be because 1 or 2 of your traits are meh or shit. That's the same thing as with top parses - top parses are not achieved because you have bestestest gear possible, it's a combination of a person knowing what he is doing plus really good RNG going on.

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Finally some things are pure exaggeration, a lot of people go ahead and cry their eyes out the moment they do not get absolutely optimal item, I have couple of guys like that in my guild and it's usual thing across the board, in bloody most of the cases it's really a matter of taking things out of proportion, "I do 1% less average DPS than I would otherwise, my life is ruined!".

[MrExcelion]

As someone who grinds quite a bit of AP and has a handle on where players stand, assuming Antorus is 5 weeks out, most mythic raiders will be short of 75. Some will have it, but not the majority. Lot of people are waiting for more AKs and they decided to slow down at 66 or 69. One month into Antorus, the vast majority will have it. With AK55, I expect to see weapons around trait 80-85 eventually, for those that stick to one weapon. Haven't done the exact math of where it'll be one month/pt but I'd think somewhere around the 83 range, or 79/80 if you're more casual about things. Argus and the mission table really are OP

Anyhow, you can look on Wowprogress to see where guilds stand on that matter, and hover around the guild average if that puts you at ease. Don't overdo it. Just a game after all.

[david0925]

Our guild is 2 nights guild at 8/9 and 479th spot world. Can I consider myself "semi-serious mythic raider" or that's only KJ kill first/second month club?

Let's not exaggerate. the fact that I am lukewarm about 75 power level trait does not mean that I am going into encounters unenchanted and unoptimized randomly pressing buttons, it's simply a case of recognizing that one specific thing which you will reach anyway is by no means any sort of requirement even for mythic raiders, unless you are REALLY in the race for firsts there.

Reality is that most valid kills are not made thanks to a couple of raiders not having 1% gap from fully optimal, such kills are really just fluke luck kills. That's why this 1% is simply insignificant, it realistically does not matter both because kills to THAT tight extent barely exist and even then RNG and skill have significantly more impact than some 1% average.

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IMO it's exactly the opposite, it's annoying on a personal level when you get shit traits, but when you are talking about 20 man raid, really... what are the chances of EVERYONE or even majority getting horrible bonuses across the board? Reality is that raidgroup overall will even-out or actually be on a positive side overall (because you do have a choice after all and really what chance is there that all the choices are terrible?).

When you are talking personal level, that can happen, where just everything is not going your way, although it is really bad RNG and I am sure most end up fine (unless something like 0.3% DPS suboptimal trait inflicts physical pain on you).

When you take than into account and the fact that something as little as getting extra level of warforged with some luck on one of your items probably balances out your bad luck otherwise, it's really not a big deal. Encounter RNG and skill produce much larger and actually visible gaps, reality is if you will suck on some encounter then it won't be because 1 or 2 of your traits are meh or shit. That's the same thing as with top parses - top parses are not achieved because you have bestestest gear possible, it's a combination of a person knowing what he is doing plus really good RNG going on.

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Finally some things are pure exaggeration, a lot of people go ahead and cry their eyes out the moment they do not get absolutely optimal item, I have couple of guys like that in my guild and it's usual thing across the board, in bloody most of the cases it's really a matter of taking things out of proportion, "I do 1% less average DPS than I would otherwise, my life is ruined!".

you're literally agreeing with me that looking at average things even out while claiming to seeing the opposite, just saying.

[Swalload]

Woah, hold on buddy, link 75 traits for Normal pls!

And my 1055 ilvl.

[psir]

For me as an enhancement shaman my bis relic is woth 2.5 ilevel, while the rest of the dps relics ranges from 1-2 ilevel. The best tier 2 traits are all worth +5 ilevels. What I'm saying is that as long as you get the tier 2 unlocked on your main spec, you're good to go even for a hardcore raider. The time it takes to get to 75 just isn't worth the small dps gain. But then again it gives the player something to do. My self I do all the Argus AP world quests everyday and I'm at 69 halfway to 70.