Make Outlaw Great Again

[sjb10287]

I think most ppl in the last expac liked Bandits Guile where there was a consistent method to get the +50% dmg deep insight buff after 12? hits of sinister strike, you could hold off/slow dps to save this for a opportune moment (Perfect example was Iskar on adds). This still could work with RTB where it's not a buff you activate rather every 4 finishers you gain 2 buffs then, 4, and then finally 6 buffs and each of these stages could last for 10 seconds and then cycle again. Maybe its a bad idea, just sounds interesting.

[Deleted]

I think most ppl in the last expac liked Bandits Guile where there was a consistent method to get the +50% dmg deep insight buff after 12? hits of sinister strike, you could hold off/slow dps to save this for a opportune moment (Perfect example was Iskar on adds).

Oh yeah i remember Iskar...
Start at 60k dps and when adds was coming :

Blade Furry
+ Leg ring
+ Adrenaline Rush
+ proc Bandit Guile
+ Killing Spree

=> Ring explosion for millions of damages : I finish adds myself with 300k+ dps

[Varolyn]

Throttling your dps to do more later was never fun to me, and never will be.

Bandit's Guile was the one part of Combat I never liked.


I like the addition of Pistol Shot (procs) and BTE, although I dislike that they aren't affected by Blade Flurry.

RTB is garbage. I hate it, never agreed with the fantasy being "mandatory" or even fitting. Not all outlaws are gamblers.

My favorite days as combat were during BC, where (aside from threat mitigation) you basically got SND rolling, kept Rupture up, and that was that. Simple, fun, effective. When I get on my warrior or paladin they aren't any more complex than that, so I don't know why SND gets such a "braindead" rep.

I actually think SnD outlaw is quite enjoyable, especially with the Ravenholdt ring. You attack sooo fast, and numbers fly on your screen. I think pistol shot should be removed tbh, but BtE can stay. I just don't think a free proc ability fits well with the fast-paced gameplay of outlaw. Replace it with Revealing strike, and maybe make bladeflurry multi-strike again (combat in AoE was so fun because of this).

[Deleted]

Outlaw needs another resource than energy, or at the very least vigor needs to be baseline.

With such a fast paced spec, waiting for energy to regen is frustrating.

If we keep energy then Blade Flurry needs to not decrease regen.

Thematically I like Rolls the Bones, since I can easily imagine some highwayman gambling in a tavern, but having our usefulness be based on RNG is frustrating. Maybe have it be a DPS cooldown that gives every buff?

As for what would replace Roll the Bones as our 24/7 uptime buff I don't know, I will say that a flat attack speed buff is kind of boring.

Maybe a buff that guarantees every auto attack to trigger main gauche? That would be cool I think.

Those were some of my ideas in terms of what I'd like to see

[Battlebeard]

Combat was great in Warlords of Draenor. They ruined a specc that was fine. Yes, Slice could have been a passive ability and Bandits Guile was stupid, but other than that, Combat was perfect then.

Don't fix what's not broken.

[ymirsson]

Outlaw needs another resource than energy, or at the very least vigor needs to be baseline.

With such a fast paced spec, waiting for energy to regen is frustrating.

If we keep energy then Blade Flurry needs to not decrease regen.

Thematically I like Rolls the Bones, since I can easily imagine some highwayman gambling in a tavern, but having our usefulness be based on RNG is frustrating. Maybe have it be a DPS cooldown that gives every buff?

As for what would replace Roll the Bones as our 24/7 uptime buff I don't know, I will say that a flat attack speed buff is kind of boring.

Maybe a buff that guarantees every auto attack to trigger main gauche? That would be cool I think.

Those were some of my ideas in terms of what I'd like to see

If you are waiting for energy, how is it a fast paced spec still?

[Deleted]

If you are waiting for energy, how is it a fast paced spec still?

You've got Pistol Shot procs, fast attack speed, lots of quick curting and stabbing, not to mention Curse of the Dreadbladrs and Adrenaline Rush that gives the spec a rapid fire, bladedancer/duelist/dashing swordsman esque feel.

How is it not at the very least SUPPOSED to be a fast paced spec?

[ymirsson]

You've got Pistol Shot procs, fast attack speed, lots of quick curting and stabbing, not to mention Curse of the Dreadbladrs and Adrenaline Rush that gives the spec a rapid fire, bladedancer/duelist/dashing swordsman esque feel.

How is it not at the very least SUPPOSED to be a fast paced spec?

So, if you are doing things while waiting, how is it waiting?

[Deleted]

So, if you are doing things while waiting, how is it waiting?

This guy watches alot of RnM. High iq

[ymirsson]

I'm not sure if that is meant as a compliment or insult, but hey, you too!

[Deleted]

So, if you are doing things while waiting, how is it waiting?

But you're not doing things while you're waiting, that's the whole point, UNLESS you've got a pistol shot proc, which requires saber slash striking twice, which occurs randomly, and requires that you have enough energy to even use Saber Slash in the first place, energy that you'll easily run out of, even if you spec into vigor.

Fast attack speed happens automatically

Lots of quick cutting and stabbing is only possible with energy

Curse of the Dreadblades and Adrenaline Rush are DPS cooldowns

Do you even play this spec?

It's quite clear that:

Outlaw's supposed to be the quick and agile swashbuckler, they're the ones who stand toe to toe with their enemies, relying on technique rather than brute strength

Assassination is... Well... The patient and strategic assassin, they're the ones who leave their enemies reeling from gashes, cuts and poisons

And Subtlety is the stalking predator, they're the ones who leap from the shadows, dispatching their foes and vanishing again

Blizzard has handled Assasination, and Subtlety well I'd say, however less so with Outlaw.

[ymirsson]

But you're not doing things while you're waiting, that's the whole point, UNLESS you've got a pistol shot proc, which requires saber slash striking twice, which occurs randomly, and requires that you have enough energy to even use Saber Slash in the first place, energy that you'll easily run out of, even if you spec into vigor.

Fast attack speed happens automatically

Lots of quick cutting and stabbing is only possible with energy

Curse of the Dreadblades and Adrenaline Rush are DPS cooldowns

Do you even play this spec?

I'm not sure how to reply to this.
Do you need to personally attack me to make a moot point? Just because you don't like the pace of the spec does not make your concerns any more valid then the feelings of people who are happy with the way things are. So unless you somehow find a real reasoning for your wishes, they are rather superficial.

If you want to saber slash more, haste will fix it.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how to reply to this.
Do you need to personally attack me to make a moot point? Just because you don't like the pace of the spec does not make your concerns any more valid then the feelings of people who are happy with the way things are. So unless you somehow find a real reasoning for your wishes, they are rather superficial.

If you want to saber slash more, haste will fix it.

I'm not sure where exactly I personally attacked you

I'm also not sure where I've said that my feelings are more valid than others' I don't know where you're getting that from, you're acting like I think I speak for everyone, which I don't because I can't.

However you're claiming that my wishes are superficial because you like the way the spec plays, and thinks it's gameplay fits the theme of it. You're actually the one who thinks your feelings are more valid than my concerns.

I do have real reasonings for my wishes, those are that the spec in my opinion doesn't play how I would like it to play based on what what both mine and Blizzard's inerpretation of the spec is.

I don't know if you missed this but the very last sentence of my initial post, the first one you replied to was:

"Those were some of my ideas in terms of what I'd like to see"

You like the spec? Great! I do too, and if you think it's a shining example of game design then that's even better,

I'm just saying that I think there's room for improvement, not that objectively it's a bad spec.

[ymirsson]

However you're claiming that my wishes are superficial because you like the way the spec plays, and thinks it's gameplay fits the theme of it. You're actually the one who thinks your feelings are more valid than my concerns.

I don't claim that your wishes are superficial because i like the way the spec feels. I feel indifferent to the current combat iteration.
I claim that they are because you have brought forth no reasons beyond "i want it differently".

[Deleted]

I don't claim that your wishes are superficial because i like the way the spec feels. I feel indifferent to the current combat iteration.
I claim that they are because you have brought forth no reasons beyond "i want it differently".

Then you're blatantly ignoring what I'm saying and this entire discussion is pointless.

[ymirsson]

Then you're blatantly ignoring what I'm saying and this entire discussion is pointless.

Well, welcome to the internet.

[MaryJay]

I havent played ToS, just returned to the game FROM NH, but from what I can see nothing important changed for outlaw.

You ppl saying all the hate for RtB dont forget that there are ppl who like it and I do. If played correctly this spec IS pretty fast, much more then asssa for example which feels like tetris on 1st level without space bar.
Damage wise I had no problems in NH in fact got few top rankings at the time and never seen anyone outdamage me in M+.

[MisterBigglez]

Maybe with t21 SnD will be the go-to talent, eliminating the rng of the spec.

[Ryuuji]

Maybe with t21 SnD will be the go-to talent, eliminating the rng of the spec.

SnD has been the go to talent for Outlaw rogues for months at higher gear levels

[Deleted]

Maybe with t21 SnD will be the go-to talent, eliminating the rng of the spec.

SnD is already the go to talent, Assa has more rng than outlaw atm.