I'm convinced that Anita Sarkeesian is a troll

[Deleted]

How would you even know that considering, again, you don't know what male gaze is.



And this pretty much sums up why your opinions on the subject are myopic and shallow. You're as bad as Anita Sarkeesian, just from the other side of the spectrum.

So basically, unless I use your collectivist tools, I am "Shallow" because I do not judge things according to fucking tropes?

[Ahovv]

Yes, largely because how people define themselves spiritually should be a matter of personal faith and not on how many A's for effort they get in adherence to dogma.

You cannot claim that organised religion is bad and then criticise people for defining themselves regardless of the dictums of organised religion.

Those are two separate, noncontradictory ideas. Of course I can criticize both.

1) Religion is bad, and factually not true.
2) Wanting to associate with these factually untrue belief systems is moronic.

I get that it's good some people are removing the worst parts of the religions, like slavery. Good job, you're not a slaver. But you're still associating with that belief system in some way. What's the point? Certainly not a good point. And thus I will criticize it.

[Moralgy]

And yet we cannot ciritique Islam due to Feminism wanting their Marxist collectivism to remain ideologically pure.

As soon as we challenge that Pyramid of Oppression it tumbles down when we look at Individuals.

Yes, yes you can. What 3rd wave generally disapproves of is generalizing all muslims as x/y/z, more specifically American muslims, when the major problems with islamic faith comes from other countries. Islamic culture of oppression against women is on the chopping block within feminist theory, but not just outright being a dick to every muslim for stuff others believe.

Once again, feminist theory, and specifically 3rd wave, is not "collectivism", its the opposite and to an extreme rofl. Refer to my previous post responding to you if you even care to read it.

[Elegiac]

Because her criticisms don't come from a place of caring about art they come from a place of caring about Feminism, which will always conflict with art because all ideologies conflict with art eventually.

Making a bland character with no defining characteristics makes no sense if you care about art, but if you care about not offending anyone or anything it makes perfect sense.

Which is, again, a valid criticism. We should be engaging in critical thinking about the arts both as a tool of social analysis -and- as a guide for refining the production and proliferation of said arts. Anita Sarkeesian is more concerned with the social context surrounding video games than with ludonarrative criticism as a means of furthering video games as an art form.

[Deleted]

I am not here shouting down shit, I say she is a brilliant woman which she is whose content I find valuable and you and everybody else who needs to chime in an all agree, then NO UH HUH.

I don't think she is a troll. A woman can be Feminine and not naked, she can also be Naked and Not Feminine, this is about a interpretation of the world you don't like so you are here advocating.

Can I ask you something? Why is a Woman being naked Only a male fantasy?

[Doctor Amadeus]

So if I understand you correctly. Because you find something objectionable it invalidates the "opinion" of that person?

NO, it doesn't NOT at all, but what I am saying is Anita is free to have whatever opinion she wants, and everyone else is free to tell her to shut the fuck up or ignore her. It wouldn't make her right, it doesn't make anyone who doesn't like her or her opinion right.

As far as the merits and the points for her opinion and reasons and logic she uses, I am convinced by the evidence she supplies based on my own experience. You don't and the world keep spinning.

That doesn't make her a troll.

[Elegiac]

So basically, unless I use your collectivist tools, I am "Shallow" because I do not judge things according to fucking tropes?

You're shallow because you dismiss -all- tools based on an a priori assumption that 'individuals are good therefore any non-individual lens is bad'.

In essence, you cannot be a rabid individualist and be genuine in any discussion of social phenomena, let alone culture.

[Endus]

If you can't keep the discussion off religion-bashing and gender discussion, the thread's gonna get locked.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Can I ask you something? Why is a Woman being naked Only a male fantasy?

Did I say it has to be, what the fuck does it matter, maybe it's not about only men either, maybe it's simply not always about you, let that sink in. Before you start it isn't all about Anita and I am sure as hell not suggesting it is.

But she doesn't need to shut up, and she isn't a fucking troll because you disagree, GET IT?

[Deleted]

Which is, again, a valid criticism. We should be engaging in critical thinking about the arts both as a tool of social analysis -and- as a guide for refining the production and proliferation of said arts. Anita Sarkeesian is more concerned with the social context surrounding video games than with ludonarrative criticism as a means of furthering video games as an art form.

She should probably not form a bias based solely on her "Social Analysis" beforehand then. Considering Video games are and always will be pretty Gender Neutral. let's be honest mr Marxist.

Anita is just like you, she cares about Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity.

WE NEED MORE WIMMIZ IN DEVELOPMENT AND MORE WIMMIZ CHARACTERS.

[anveena]

She isn't a troll. She's just conning a bunch of gullible 3rd wave feminist for money. Speaking about against made up oppression seems to pay quite well in the US.

[Moralgy]

If you can't keep the discussion off religion-bashing and gender discussion, the thread's gonna get locked.

Is the general "do feminists critique islam" discussion okay, or should that be dropped to avoid the bashing topic?

[Deleted]

Did I say it has to be, what the fuck does it matter, maybe it's not about only men either, maybe it's simply not always about you, let that sink in. Before you start it isn't all about Anita and I am sure as hell not suggesting it is.

But she doesn't need to shut up, and she isn't a fucking troll because you disagree, GET IT?

No, She's a troll because she's wrong, and her Bias taints everything she says. She never judges anything fairly and she had her Opinion before she studied the games in question.

[Elegiac]

The argument is more along the lines of "Individuals will break the mold of a group, so a group analysis is flawed from the start"

If you're dumb enough to believe that humans, a social species, don't operate on a social level then sure.

[Sorrior]

You're aware that male gaze applies to men as well, right?

This is what is meant when people say misogyny harms men as well. The association of particular traits as feminine and thus bad generates "idealised" male characters that are defined solely by their physical prowess, capacity for violence, and how badly or disposably they treat the the significant people in their life.

Point was eyecabdy exists for both sides of the spectrum and both groups tend to be sex symbols.

Thinking about it the action genre itself basically means make the protagonist sexy as fuck while blowing shit up..probably a good comment in their about the us as a whole actually.

And both genders have idealized forms that shift. Not going to blame a system for making hairless super buff dudes as more attractive nor do i think it has to do with being "less feminine" but rsther the difficulty in attaining such a body and associating it with combat..also boddice rippers at least imply women can find such men hot if not as a majority then a minority.

Tldr not everything is because of men and saying it is is absolute insanity

[Deleted]

You're shallow because you dismiss -all- tools based on an a priori assumption that 'individuals are good therefore any non-individual lens is bad'.

In essence, you cannot be a rabid individualist and be genuine in any discussion of social phenomena, let alone culture.

Yes I can. Because Humans are not a Collectivist species. We value Individualism to shape the collective, not the collective to shape the Individual.

Why do you think we remember famous people?

[Doctor Amadeus]

She should probably not form a bias based solely on her "Social Analysis" beforehand then. Considering Video games are and always will be pretty Gender Neutral. let's be honest mr Marxist.

Anita is just like you, she cares about Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity.

WE NEED MORE WIMMIZ IN DEVELOPMENT AND MORE WIMMIZ CHARACTERS.

So, maybe we need more Short Redheaded Dwarves also, seriously, maybe we do maybe we don't but if you want to start a cause or whatever for it by god go for it. However it doesn't make you valid, relevant, or right.

But who the hell knows maybe you will be famous.

[Elegiac]

She should probably not form a bias based solely on her "Social Analysis" beforehand then. Considering Video games are and always will be pretty Gender Neutral. let's be honest mr Marxist.

Video games are art and thus a mirror into the society that produces them; if you think that our culture is 'gender neutral' then of course you're going to see video games as gender neutral.

Anita is just like you, she cares about Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity.

What are my goals as regards video games, then? Since you apparently know everything.

[Doctor Amadeus]

No, She's a troll because she's wrong, and her Bias taints everything she says. She never judges anything fairly and she had her Opinion before she studied the games in question.

Being wrong doesn't make someone a troll neither does not sharing your fucking opinion, Way to say consistent with your not painting with a broad brush and not being marxist like and all.

[Deleted]

So, maybe we need more Short Redheaded Dwarves also, seriously, maybe we do maybe we don't but if you want to start a cause or whatever for it by god go for it. However it doesn't make you valid, relevant, or right.

But who the hell knows maybe you will be famous.

No, We don't NEED anything. We don't need to force anything out of anyone, we can simply consume the media we like and shun the media we dislike. Surprise Surprise, that's how the world works.