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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So you're mad that for one time throughout the entire game of gushing over the player as if they're god's gift to Eorzea, this one time you're not the center of attention?

    Yeesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    Oh no we needed help with a situation.
    You may not like my opinion, but the least you can do is respond respectfully, not with condescension and snark. I stand by my view, it was a horrible design choice and I hope they do NOT repeat it.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Zenos is definitely dead, I think. I think it's Zenos' face the Ascian is wearing that shocked the Emperor. That seems to fit all the required marks for what we've seen in Ala Mhigo and Garlemald now.
    That would have been my first guess. If our Ascian is seen walking around the Empire as Zenos however, the citizens of the Empire would probably assume that rumours of his death were greatly exaggerated.

    Or else his whole fusion with Shiryu bit allowed him to cheat death though a plot hole as of yet undisclosed means. I suppose when you look a bit like Kael'thas if you squint hard enough, getting your head cut off is only a setback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    What will be interesting concerning Righty, as you refer to Raubahn (sadly enough, that took me more than a second to discern...aka I'm fail ), is how will he affect the power structure within Ala Mhigo at this point. It's seemed evident the writers wanted to put Lyse forward into the spotlight as the new face of Ala Mhigo; to have Raubahn on the team, who already can command far more respect from his fellow Ala Mhigans than she has ever, could serve to undermine the push to have her in a lead role. Will be interesting to see how that pans out.
    Righty and I have been through a lot together, including me saving his life. And his adopted son. And his waifu. And his job. I figure I've earned the right to bestow a somewhat ironic nickname on him at this point. I'm sure he calls me the "Warrior of Shite" behind my back, so we're even.

    If anything, I'd have thought Righty would have served a similar role as he did in Ul'dah. Not to undermine Lyse, but someone she can turn to for support and guidance if and when she needs it. Righty isn't much of a people pleaser, but he is natural leader. If the country is moving towards a democracy, Righty probably wouldn't stand much chance at getting elected - He would however make an ideal candidate for turning the scattered resistance into a unified army, and be one of the few people with the chops to lead it.

    Having Lyse and Righty working together, along with a third more administrative character who can get done the types of task that don't need punching or stabbing, would cover most of the bases to form a stable enough interim government.

  3. #263
    I very much agree, with how Nanamo was framed in the 4.1 MSQ it's clear they intend the same dynamic between Lyse and Righty McStabberson, the 'child ruler' and her sworn sword/advisor. His support of her will give weight where it's needed, as evinced in his calming the mob howling after Fordola's blood. That said, I'm glad Pippin will finally move fully from his father's shadow (all short jokes aside) and take his rightful place in Ul'dah, something I've been expecting ever since we met him.

    On a different note, the new Hildi quest was decent, if a little short. A new location, a new mystery, same old derpy kitteh and Hyur and looney side-characters.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    You may not like my opinion, but the least you can do is respond respectfully, not with condescension and snark. I stand by my view, it was a horrible design choice and I hope they do NOT repeat it.
    So you're hoping that every character sidelined as they'll be entirely obsolete and nothing creative can be used in a trial since it'll be straightforward "player DPS the enemy until they're all dead" for every plot fight. Any semblence of storytelling or character development for anyone besides the player would need to be eliminated for the sake of the player being a walking god.

    We'll just never see eye to eye storytelling design philosophy, then.

    I can understand someone saying they don't care for it. You're making it seem like it's the most egregious offense Square could have committed for DARING to not make the player the exclusive center of all focus. My snark was in response to how you make it sound like this is somehow a huge bruise on the player's ego. That's irrational to me.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So you're hoping that every character sidelined as they'll be entirely obsolete and nothing creative can be used in a trial since it'll be straightforward "player DPS the enemy until they're all dead" for every plot fight. Any semblence of storytelling or character development for anyone besides the player would need to be eliminated for the sake of the player being a walking god.

    We'll just never see eye to eye storytelling design philosophy, then.

    I can understand someone saying they don't care for it. You're making it seem like it's the most egregious offense Square could have committed for DARING to not make the player the exclusive center of all focus. My snark was in response to how you make it sound like this is somehow a huge bruise on the player's ego. That's irrational to me.
    Of course it's irrational, it's based on how I feel. Lemme break it down:

    1)I play with 700+ ms of ping, first off.
    2)Solo duties generally annoy me cos if I fuck up I'm forced to start the whooooole thing over.
    3)Pass/fail mechanics piss me off in general, especially when you combine that with 1) and 2) above.

    So, with that trifecta in mind, then running into the end of the duty and basically being hardwalled from finishing it based on my own merit? Yeah. It made me FUCKING MAD. I HATED it. I still think it's fucking stupid, even if I understand the design reasons behind it. I can appreciate the attempts by Cubist artists to challenge our notions of how we see the world. Doesn't mean when I look at it I still don't think 'that looks like a piece of shit'.

    Now, I come here to vent and share my opinion, try and explain why I felt that way, and I feel like I'm being MOCKED for feeling that way? Yeah, my knee-jerk response is...impolite, let's put it that way. But I don't respond that way. Yet I still feel the same way about it and that's not changing. Just like I still say Zenos is nothing but a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    Of course it's irrational, it's based on how I feel. Lemme break it down:

    1)I play with 700+ ms of ping, first off.
    2)Solo duties generally annoy me cos if I fuck up I'm forced to start the whooooole thing over.
    3)Pass/fail mechanics piss me off in general, especially when you combine that with 1) and 2) above.

    So, with that trifecta in mind, then running into the end of the duty and basically being hardwalled from finishing it based on my own merit? Yeah. It made me FUCKING MAD. I HATED it. I still think it's fucking stupid, even if I understand the design reasons behind it. I can appreciate the attempts by Cubist artists to challenge our notions of how we see the world. Doesn't mean when I look at it I still don't think 'that looks like a piece of shit'.

    Now, I come here to vent and share my opinion, try and explain why I felt that way, and I feel like I'm being MOCKED for feeling that way? Yeah, my knee-jerk response is...impolite, let's put it that way. But I don't respond that way. Yet I still feel the same way about it and that's not changing. Just like I still say Zenos is nothing but a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
    The mockery, as you put it, is primarily over how you've essentially dubbed this the worst thing ever in all of video games.

    I manage to flub this thing once because I initially figured I had to balance between dpsing Lakshmi and grabbing the orbs. Second go, I just said "Screw it, I'm the Pac-Man of Light now" and easily cleared that portion of the battle.

    Don't think anyone would argue against Zenos being Mr. Saturday Morning Villain. I don't think it's a 100% terrible decision to have such a villian as opposed to some brooding scheming villain who people could sympathize with due to venturing into a moral grey area or something of that nature.

    Off topic, but for something that irritated me after wiping...Lich King Heroic, and having to hear that monologue over and over and over again...aguwhaiouhgjsfhklasjdfhalkj!

    Now, for something I posted over the weekend on Reddit...am I the only one who got similar vibes from Fordola akin to what Alisae had put out there in the "Tales of the Storm" filler content they post on the official site? I'm specifically referring to one from a month-ish ago that involved the WoL meeting the "Women of the Scions" for tea. Namely, the notion that Fordola may have developed some...attachment to the WoL as a result of seeing our memories. I'm completely fine with that tidbit, but I would not want (nor expect) to see the writers/developers essentially force the PC into a romance with someone they may not give a shit about, since there's a fairly healthy amount of folks who would simply rather see her head on a pike instead of the redemption arc she's set up for. Can't say I blame those folks, either.

    Makes me wonder if player/NPC romances would even be remotely feasible in a MMO. My knee-jerk reaction/thoughts is that it would simply be incompatible with the genre due to the amount of variables it would impose.
    Last edited by Kazgrel; 2017-10-16 at 04:13 PM.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Now, for something I posted over the weekend on Reddit...am I the only one who got similar vibes from Fordola akin to what Alisae had put out there in the "Tales of the Storm" filler content they post on the official site? I'm specifically referring to one from a month-ish ago that involved the WoL meeting the "Women of the Scions" for tea. Namely, the notion that Fordola may have developed some...attachment to the WoL as a result of seeing our memories. I'm completely fine with that tidbit, but I would not want (nor expect) to see the writers/developers essentially force the PC into a romance with someone they may not give a shit about, since there's a fairly healthy amount of folks who would simply rather see her head on a pike instead of the redemption arc she's set up for. Can't say I blame those folks, either.

    Makes me wonder if player/NPC romances would even be remotely feasible in a MMO. My knee-jerk reaction/thoughts is that it would simply be incompatible with the genre due to the amount of variables it would impose.
    I don't think anything like that will develop. Fordola more likely will come to admire the WoL for their strength and conviction, etc. etc.

    As part of a main story, I don't think it's possible. If a developer got really ambitious, they could develop it where you get a little Dragon Age'y and over time can build a relationship with a few choices and that alters some scenes depending on said choice, but the overall payoff would be minimal, I think.

    After all, who's gonna pursue Fordola when we've been side by side with Y'shtola for so long. Obviously.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I don't think anything like that will develop. Fordola more likely will come to admire the WoL for their strength and conviction, etc. etc.

    As part of a main story, I don't think it's possible. If a developer got really ambitious, they could develop it where you get a little Dragon Age'y and over time can build a relationship with a few choices and that alters some scenes depending on said choice, but the overall payoff would be minimal, I think.

    After all, who's gonna pursue Fordola when we've been side by side with Y'shtola for so long. Obviously.
    On one hand, I think the concept is a bit fascinating, and I'm someone who's never given a shit about romancing characters with my in-game avatar (although I did play along with it happily in the original KOTOR). Namely, how would players react if their beloved were killed as a result of the story needing to have that happen in order to proceed? I'm viewing it from the lens of how this game handles story; continuity would be shattered were it possible to, use an obvious example, have Haurchefant live because his lover (the PC in this instance) knocked him down in time or some such.

    Given how much people grieved the guy as things stand now, imagine had he been a legit romance option for players to the tune of what we've seen in the Bioware offerings mentioned...like, would people unsub as a result (They would, or at least would post such statements online, lol).

    Would it really be worth all the headache, though? I don't think so, not with an MMO narrative in mind. It could be an area "outside the box" for a dev to explore, though, and given the rather stagnant state of MMOs as a whole, I would at least encourage such a pursuit. At the very worst, it only becomes more of the "illusion of choice" we often find within the genre.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    On one hand, I think the concept is a bit fascinating, and I'm someone who's never given a shit about romancing characters with my in-game avatar (although I did play along with it happily in the original KOTOR). Namely, how would players react if their beloved were killed as a result of the story needing to have that happen in order to proceed
    The one thing that makes this more possible is that there is significant precedent in Final Fantasy history. I don't see it happening in something like SWTOR, but I'd be somewhat wary of an FF romance, personally.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    The mockery, as you put it, is primarily over how you've essentially dubbed this the worst thing ever in all of video games.
    There's no justification for talking to me in that way. I never attacked others' viewpoints, I never implied (to my knowledge) that not agreeing with me made others stupid or somehow lesser, I expressed MY opinion on the matter to people I thought would respond maturely and, if not with sympathy, at least respect. Why this was not the case, I cannot say.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    Of course it's irrational, it's based on how I feel. Lemme break it down:

    1)I play with 700+ ms of ping, first off.
    2)Solo duties generally annoy me cos if I fuck up I'm forced to start the whooooole thing over.
    3)Pass/fail mechanics piss me off in general, especially when you combine that with 1) and 2) above.

    So, with that trifecta in mind, then running into the end of the duty and basically being hardwalled from finishing it based on my own merit? Yeah. It made me FUCKING MAD. I HATED it. I still think it's fucking stupid, even if I understand the design reasons behind it. I can appreciate the attempts by Cubist artists to challenge our notions of how we see the world. Doesn't mean when I look at it I still don't think 'that looks like a piece of shit'.

    Now, I come here to vent and share my opinion, try and explain why I felt that way, and I feel like I'm being MOCKED for feeling that way? Yeah, my knee-jerk response is...impolite, let's put it that way. But I don't respond that way. Yet I still feel the same way about it and that's not changing. Just like I still say Zenos is nothing but a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
    I'm personally not trying to mock you, but I have a hard time understanding your viewpoint. The more you articulate your point the less it makes sense to me. The three main points for you disliking this story telling mechanic have nothing to do with the story and everything to do with 1) the performance of your system/ISP 2)Your ability to complete duties (which may be skill or your system as 700+ ping is pretty long, so not your fault if so..which brings me back to #1) and 3) totally normal and routine video game mechanics that have been part of video games since their inception.

    What's reason(s) do you have for disliking this story telling mechanic, that have nothing to do with hardware or game play mechanics? If those are your only arguments against it, they are obviously still valid, I'm just trying to see if you have a narrative/ story reason for not liking it rather than a general dislike for how this scene played out game play wise, which is fair. I didn't much care for me the WoL not being able to take down a primal I've already taken down before without the help from someone who doesn't even have the Echo who we had to spend the majority of the fight protecting, but I do understand a bit why they did it.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I'm personally not trying to mock you, but I have a hard time understanding your viewpoint. The more you articulate your point the less it makes sense to me. The three main points for you disliking this story telling mechanic have nothing to do with the story and everything to do with 1) the performance of your system/ISP 2)Your ability to complete duties (which may be skill or your system as 700+ ping is pretty long, so not your fault if so..which brings me back to #1) and 3) totally normal and routine video game mechanics that have been part of video games since their inception.

    What's reason(s) do you have for disliking this story telling mechanic, that have nothing to do with hardware or game play mechanics? If those are your only arguments against it, they are obviously still valid, I'm just trying to see if you have a narrative/ story reason for not liking it rather than a general dislike for how this scene played out game play wise, which is fair. I didn't much care for me the WoL not being able to take down a primal I've already taken down before without the help from someone who doesn't even have the Echo who we had to spend the majority of the fight protecting, but I do understand a bit why they did it.
    My bigger issue is the first time we face Lakshmi, the pacing of the story indicates you didn't have help. Every other primal has had a presentation of gathering your allies. Lakshmi is presented as if we solo'd the whole fight rather than needing a Full Party.

    Just furthers my opinion that Square did, in fact, make a mistake with 2.0 retroactively making the echo exceedingly rare rather than just uncommon/rare. I feel like all the Scions should have the echo and the other players in Full Party trials are basically the stand in representations of the Scions with us at the time. That would also have allowed each Scion to have some talent as a result of their echo.

    After all, 1.0 saw the Scions (before they were the Scions) essentially recruiting people who had the echo. It was more of a "we find people who have it and invite them under the banner" vibe which ultimately works better to me.

    Plus it maintains the Final Fantasy "Warriors of Light" rather than the current "There used to be Warriors of Light but now there's just you who reminds us of them so we call you the sole, single, only Warrior of Light and everything requires you and you alone to handle it" method.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    My bigger issue is the first time we face Lakshmi, the pacing of the story indicates you didn't have help. Every other primal has had a presentation of gathering your allies. Lakshmi is presented as if we solo'd the whole fight rather than needing a Full Party.

    Just furthers my opinion that Square did, in fact, make a mistake with 2.0 retroactively making the echo exceedingly rare rather than just uncommon/rare. I feel like all the Scions should have the echo and the other players in Full Party trials are basically the stand in representations of the Scions with us at the time. That would also have allowed each Scion to have some talent as a result of their echo.

    After all, 1.0 saw the Scions (before they were the Scions) essentially recruiting people who had the echo. It was more of a "we find people who have it and invite them under the banner" vibe which ultimately works better to me.

    Plus it maintains the Final Fantasy "Warriors of Light" rather than the current "There used to be Warriors of Light but now there's just you who reminds us of them so we call you the sole, single, only Warrior of Light and everything requires you and you alone to handle it" method.
    I don't mind either approach, though it makes more sense for there to be multiple people with the Echo. I just wish they'd stick with whatever theme they want to go with and use that consistently. Are we some seemingly unassailable and unstoppable force, or are we just some relatively normal person who has a rare-ish gift and makes good use of it?

    Stormblood does well in really solidifying that the Echo, while rare, is not EXCEEDINGLY so as we have an organization made up of people with it. But that really brings into question just how critical we the player character are in the whole scheme of things. Obviously we care about our characters, but why are we so special aside from a game play perspective? What is it about us that makes us the go-to person for every bad thing when there are others in the Scions that have the Echo? Why are we the only seemingly unstoppable force within the Scions? Do we really have an extra special gift? Is our Echo more powerful/ more special than others? Some other more esoteric and as yet defined reason? Or are we just the muscle of the Scions while the others are more specialized at other things while still having a noteworthy level of martial skill?

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I'm personally not trying to mock you, but I have a hard time understanding your viewpoint. The more you articulate your point the less it makes sense to me. The three main points for you disliking this story telling mechanic have nothing to do with the story and everything to do with 1) the performance of your system/ISP 2)Your ability to complete duties (which may be skill or your system as 700+ ping is pretty long, so not your fault if so..which brings me back to #1) and 3) totally normal and routine video game mechanics that have been part of video games since their inception.

    What's reason(s) do you have for disliking this story telling mechanic, that have nothing to do with hardware or game play mechanics? If those are your only arguments against it, they are obviously still valid, I'm just trying to see if you have a narrative/ story reason for not liking it rather than a general dislike for how this scene played out game play wise, which is fair. I didn't much care for me the WoL not being able to take down a primal I've already taken down before without the help from someone who doesn't even have the Echo who we had to spend the majority of the fight protecting, but I do understand a bit why they did it.
    I should've repeated another caveat. I don't like it when my character abilities are made irrelevant/ineffective and I'm diverted into some kind of mini-game instead. But I had to do all these things to progress the game story. And then, on top of it all, just to add insult to injury, I'm hard-walled from being able to finish the fight on my own merit. Hence my 'fuck you SE' on the whole affair.

    I feel like my time was wasted to tell a story that would've been just as well off told in a cutscene. I feel like I mattered about as much as an NPC. I feel like I was toyed with and was charged fucking money for the 'privilege'. And I am not paying them money every month to feel that way. To put it another way, it was NOT FUN. I don't know what else I can say to make my feelings on the matter clear.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't mind either approach, though it makes more sense for there to be multiple people with the Echo. I just wish they'd stick with whatever theme they want to go with and use that consistently. Are we some seemingly unassailable and unstoppable force, or are we just some relatively normal person who has a rare-ish gift and makes good use of it?
    That's another point. Initially the only thing that made the player special was the echo protected them from being enthralled by Primals. Outside of that, there was no special power that made them any better than another highly skilled fighter. In A Realm Reborn, there's nothing to truly indicate that Raubahn couldn't do anything and everything we do if he had that Echo-blessing against the Primals.

    I felt that was supposed to be their intent, though it doesn't always come through well. The Warrior of Light has one thing that gives them an advantage. Outside of that, it's really supposed to be just skills that anyone else can train to acquire and a group of companions that lend support in different ways. That last one is particularly tricky to really detail as it takes the attention away from the player even more and requires us sitting through dialogue to see how others are doing their own thing to support what we do.

    Minfilia suffered from this the most. I still don't think people grasp the fact that she did a lot behind the scenes where people think she just stood around, worried, and clutched her chest and did nothing else.

    Stormblood does well in really solidifying that the Echo, while rare, is not EXCEEDINGLY so as we have an organization made up of people with it. But that really brings into question just how critical we the player character are in the whole scheme of things. Obviously we care about our characters, but why are we so special aside from a game play perspective? What is it about us that makes us the go-to person for every bad thing when there are others in the Scions that have the Echo? Why are we the only seemingly unstoppable force within the Scions? Do we really have an extra special gift? Is our Echo more powerful/ more special than others? Some other more esoteric and as yet defined reason? Or are we just the muscle of the Scions while the others are more specialized at other things while still having a noteworthy level of martial skill?
    If we were able to reset it a bit and establish there are others with the Echo in the Scions, I'd have simply liked them to address it with comments. "The Kojans have summoned Susanoo again, but we have to trust that ____ and his team can handle that. You have to venture to the Deltascape and determine how we can stop this." Simple things like that would be enough to build a picture that yes, we're special and we're among a group that are also special, but the story we're following is *our* story and that doesn't mean that the organization as a whole isn't coordinating on multiple fronts.

    Right now we've basically got three identified as having the echo, and Krile's not a fighter (Minfilia had it, but well... she gone). I'd even be okay with them being stretched thin. People might have the Echo that makes them more suitable for diplomacy, trade, crafting, but they aren't fighters.

    I just personally like the idea of there being a group within the Scions known to have the echo and skilled in combat. We don't have to meet them, but imply there's at least a dozen... or specifically 8 of us.

    It's an interesting aspect to analyze and debate how that could be better handled from a storytelling perspective.

  16. #276
    I thought the Echo and the Blessing of Hydaelyn were two separate powers. The WOL has both, while others only have the Echo, which is why the WOL is so powerful. When Midgardsormr stripped the Blessing from the WOL, the WOL still retained the Echo.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    I feel like my time was wasted to tell a story that would've been just as well off told in a cutscene. I feel like I mattered about as much as an NPC. I feel like I was toyed with and was charged fucking money for the 'privilege'. And I am not paying them money every month to feel that way. To put it another way, it was NOT FUN. I don't know what else I can say to make my feelings on the matter clear.
    So, again, one fight out of everything. Essentially what, 30 minutes out of 4 months of Stormblood, and you're sounding here like you're saying you plan to cancel your sub over it. Is that an accurate interpretation of what you're saying or do you mean as a whole that's not the experience you're paying for, not literally saying you're at the point of cancelling? It's your money and if that one fight sours the entire game for you, you're totally in your right to put your money where your heart is on the manner. Just want to clarify I'm reading what you're saying correctly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    I thought the Echo and the Blessing of Hydaelyn were two separate powers. The WOL has both, while others only have the Echo, which is why the WOL is so powerful. When Midgardsormr stripped the Blessing from the WOL, the WOL still retained the Echo.
    That's actually true...

    The echo allows us to glimpse other's memories and understand any language.

    The Blessing of Hydaelyn protects from Primal enthralling (and "what is this power?!" moments), right?

    So easy to mix the two together. Still, I put some of that on Square. They seem to blur the description, sounding like the Echo is Hydaelyn's blessing at times.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-10-16 at 08:44 PM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So, again, one fight out of everything. Essentially what, 30 minutes out of 4 months of Stormblood, and you're sounding here like you're saying you plan to cancel your sub over it. Is that an accurate interpretation of what you're saying? It's your money and if that one fight sours the entire game for you, you're totally in your right to put your money where your heart is on the manner. Just seems like one of the most extreme reactions I've ever seen on the forums.
    If that's how I sound, it's not the intent. I'm voicing my great disapproval for how they handled that one fight and the hopes they don't pull some shit like that again. But it IS one fight (more importantly, one I never have to repeat, fuck you again SE) and it hasn't soured the entire game. I feel no different about all the other things I do as a result. But it was a great aggravation and frustration for me and as a group of people who I generally feel I can come to and voice my opinion on our shared experience, I did, in an unvarnished fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I just personally like the idea of there being a group within the Scions known to have the echo and skilled in combat. We don't have to meet them, but imply there's at least a dozen... or specifically 8 of us.
    More like 24 of us. And personally I handwave that away cos none of the rest of you matter anyways, I'M the hero.

    But I get what you're saying, it's an inconsistency, and I would venture it's borne of trying to not take away (in most cases, see my recent railing against 4.1) the focus and importance of you as the star. And when there ARE people (like the Warriors of Darkness) who can stand up to and defeat Primals reliably, you're supposed to sit up and take notice, not like you can avoid it cos story camera is on them...

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    If that's how I sound, it's not the intent. I'm voicing my great disapproval for how they handled that one fight and the hopes they don't pull some shit like that again. But it IS one fight (more importantly, one I never have to repeat, fuck you again SE) and it hasn't soured the entire game. I feel no different about all the other things I do as a result. But it was a great aggravation and frustration for me and as a group of people who I generally feel I can come to and voice my opinion on our shared experience, I did, in an unvarnished fashion.)
    I gotcha. Understood. And I do apologize if my snark was extra bitey. It was just such a passionate "F you, Square" it seemed even more harsh than seemed reasonable at first.

    With the extra pains, I see the extra frustration. Kind of like the player frustration with Titan in the old days when Square didn't even conceive of lag when designing the fight.

    More like 24 of us. And personally I handwave that away cos none of the rest of you matter anyways, I'M the hero.
    Naaah, the 24 mans never deal with anything THAT dangerous. Not Echo/Hydaelyn Blessing worthy, anyway! Just end of the world stuff any ol' crew of adventurers can handle.

    Also, my friend would gently take those sunglasses off and THROW 'EM ON THE GROUND and say "Nuh uh! I'M THE HERO!"

    I, however, play a Ninja and now a Samurai. I'm perfectly content thinking of my character as a player in support of events rather than the center force driving them. That was a little easier in WoW where I could say my hunter was involved on the Malygos side of WotLK and the paladin was involved on the Lich King siege side of things rather than imagining one character getting into all kinds of trouble.


    But I get what you're saying, it's an inconsistency, and I would venture it's borne of trying to not take away (in most cases, see my recent railing against 4.1) the focus and importance of you as the star. And when there ARE people (like the Warriors of Darkness) who can stand up to and defeat Primals reliably, you're supposed to sit up and take notice, not like you can avoid it cos story camera is on them...
    It definitely is to some extent keeping focus on the player being the protagonist of their story. I just like the idea of things being even bigger and more complex that one person isn't able to address everything on their own and that others are doing stuff while we're doing our stuff and sometimes we gather our forces. The end of ARR was great because it made it seem like you had all the others involved (cut scenes are great if your FC is all glamoured up in their "recognized set" and you run those and watch the cut scenes), but the player seems like they're sort of the commander on that mission. I like that sort of stuff.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-10-16 at 08:48 PM.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    I should've repeated another caveat. I don't like it when my character abilities are made irrelevant/ineffective and I'm diverted into some kind of mini-game instead. But I had to do all these things to progress the game story. And then, on top of it all, just to add insult to injury, I'm hard-walled from being able to finish the fight on my own merit. Hence my 'fuck you SE' on the whole affair.

    I feel like my time was wasted to tell a story that would've been just as well off told in a cutscene. I feel like I mattered about as much as an NPC. I feel like I was toyed with and was charged fucking money for the 'privilege'. And I am not paying them money every month to feel that way. To put it another way, it was NOT FUN. I don't know what else I can say to make my feelings on the matter clear.
    Your feelings are clear, I was just unclear as to why (which ultimately doesn't matter, I was just curious).

    I understand your feelings, I just don't necessarily agree with them as intensely as you. The fight mechanics and what we do within the fight aren't all that different to what we've seen in other parts of the game. The main difference seems to be the health bar of the boss. There have been a few encounters where we beat on an enemy until some event happens that officially ends the fight. Sometimes it's us that gets the finishing blow, sometimes it's someone else, but it is usually us. Typically we beat on the enemy until their health is gone at which point the event happens, though in some cases it's triggered earlier by some health % decrease or health limit.

    Would you have felt better had we taken the enemies health down all the way, at which point it triggered Lyse to do the LB? What if we took all the health away and that triggered a cutscene where the fight ended with her doing her LB? If so, why is that so different/ better than having a health limit within the fight itself that triggered the fight ending event rather than taking down a health gauge and then being taken out of the fight to watch a cutscene where it happened?

    I don't see this fight as all that different than other encounters we see, mainly in the job quests. We have an enemy, we have mechanics to do, some of which are protecting people and then we have some trigger event that pushes the fight forward or to it's conclusion. What is so different about this one that makes it so egregiously bad when compared to those other ones?

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