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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Because, and i think many don't want to admit that, if you get a big "skip fight" button every time you die, many will use it after a few losses, even if they normally enjoy hard boss fights. Just because it's there and it's tempting.
    And after they press it they would feel bad.
    We had all this discussion with easy mode raids in wow for years.
    I think current games have already disproved that though. There are many games that while the may not specifically have a "skip" button, do have the ability to change the difficulty setting on the fly. If your argument was to hold true, then these games should have conditioned people to the point where the majority of people play on the easiest setting possible.

    That still doesn't change the fact that your game play is unchanged. Unless you can demonstratively prove that having that easy setting has diminished your ability to play the game, then what is the issue?

  2. #162
    Deleted
    yes add it. I want a super easy mode. it does not hurt anything. What is up with people being like " IF OTHER CAN ENJOY THE GAME AS WELL IT RUINS MY ENJOYMENT!!!" i honestly, no trolling, belive dark souls should have a easy mode. It wont hurt the none easy mode people..

  3. #163
    The Lightbringer
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    The thing with Dark Souls is that people who enjoy it tend to enjoy it because it is hard, not despite that it is hard. The difficulty leads people to believe that their skill exceeds that of others who dont like the game. By making DS (or any game really) easier you diminish the sense of accomplishment in the minds of those players who like the feeling of exclusivity through difficulty.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    You could watch it on youtube and save $60.
    ^This... is what's wrong with gaming culture. The gaming experience all about beating the challenge. A good game takes into account what it took to get to the next cutscene. You are lauded as someone with the necessary skill to overcome those obstacles. Games or interactive entertainment places the need to beat the challenge to move the story forward not only as a piece of compelling entertainment but as a storytelling device that pulls you in... you have been inside the head of the protagonist... you worked out the puzzle or challenge... without that the story would not have continued. If you want a passive story then read a book or watch a movie... but games are meant to be played not just witnessed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    The gaming experience all about beating the challenge.
    "Challenge" never existed.

    In the 80s and 90s, it is all about memorize the patterns.
    This is as close as you can get.

    Then WoW and Diablo 3 come in.
    There is something call "progression", also call gear score.

    Finally today, you can spend $10000 and buy a full set of raid gear.
    (If the game doesn't support buy gear, you can buy raid run.)

  6. #166
    For single player games I don't see why there shouldn't be something like in GTAV (skip a tough part of a mission after you fail like 3 or 5 times). I mean you won't get achievements or the like for the stuff you skipped but it allows you to progress if you aren't able to beat a tough boss or the likes.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    "Challenge" never existed.

    In the 80s and 90s, it is all about memorize the patterns.
    This is as close as you can get.
    I would fundamentally disagree here. There were lots of games which were genuinely challenging on their own merits. The early Legend of Zelda series for instance. It wasn't "challenging" when it came to it's combat, not really. The challenge lay in using the tools at your disposal to solve the puzzles the game presented. It required exploration and problem solving, as well as being able to decipher the sometimes cryptic hints and tips given to you by the NPC's. Even if you were amazing at the games combat, you would still be required to solve the puzzles to proceed.

    Admittedly you could memorise the puzzle solutions for repeated play throughs, but the same is true for any game where exploration and problem solving are tested.

    On the other end of the scale, you also had games which were challenging for their high execution requirements. Games like Street Fighter for instance, where just because you know how to put in the right motion for a special move doesn't mean you're going to be able to combo into it on demand all the time without a ton of work put in. Then add on top learning everyone elses special moves, optimising your punish combos and all the hard work and broken controllers that go in to even being remotely competant at the game.

    Just because one or two specific genre's, sidescrollers and bullethell shooters, were massively based on rote memorisation doesn't mean all 80's and 90's games were. There were lots of them out there which offered up genuinely challenging content to the player, not many of which had to even cross the line to "Nintendo Hard" to get their challenge.

  8. #168
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Ugh, what a terrible debate. Let's just let it go. We both know this is going nowhere.
    Well you picked this argument...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    ^This... is what's wrong with gaming culture. The gaming experience all about beating the challenge.
    No, the gaming experience is all about interactive entertainment. I.e. FUN.

    For some it's challenge, for some it's somethign else. Several groupd of people may like the same game. If thye can all play it and have fun - then it's a good game and it's good for everyone, because more players play the game the game is successful more games like that will be made.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  9. #169
    Might as well view a video on Youtube of someone else playing it if you're just interested in watching the game... plus you'd save yourself money.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    yes add it. I want a super easy mode. it does not hurt anything. What is up with people being like " IF OTHER CAN ENJOY THE GAME AS WELL IT RUINS MY ENJOYMENT!!!" i honestly, no trolling, belive dark souls should have a easy mode. It wont hurt the none easy mode people..
    No, it really shouldn't.
    If you want an easier game just buy a different game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No, the gaming experience is all about interactive entertainment. I.e. FUN.
    You're right, but depending on the game that FUN can be derived from the story, mechanics or a hard challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    "Challenge" never existed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No, the gaming experience is all about interactive entertainment. I.e. FUN.

    For some it's challenge, for some it's somethign else. Several groupd of people may like the same game. If thye can all play it and have fun - then it's a good game and it's good for everyone, because more players play the game the game is successful more games like that will be made.
    There is a miscommunication here... the challenge is the game... the contest... the puzzle... presented for you to complete.... I never said it was "challenging" or hard. What I said it was on you to do it. That's what makes games great and differentiates games from other forms of entertainment. I stand by my earlier statement: games are meant to be played not just witnessed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    Finally today, you can spend $10000 and buy a full set of raid gear.
    (If the game doesn't support buy gear, you can buy raid run.)
    True, but that's entirely the loss of the person paying the money.
    The entire point of the game is to progress, watch your character grow in strength. If you buy that instantly, why play at all.

    And in the case of WoW and D3, even if you buy a "run" (if you even can in D3), chances are you'll need to buy multiple runs to get a full set, considering RNG on items and it's bonuses exist.

    And when you do have a full set then what? You join a guild or a random group and finish the raid you've been boosted through multiple times?
    Literally what is the point?

    You can just join LFR and see all the bosses from there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In the case of the Dark Souls series, it not having easier difficulties is a good thing.
    When you say "I've beat Dark Souls [X]", even if you played with knowledgeable friends or used the easiest build you can appreciate what makes it difficult.

    If you add an easier difficulty, the value of beating the game goes down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I think current games have already disproved that though. There are many games that while the may not specifically have a "skip" button, do have the ability to change the difficulty setting on the fly. If your argument was to hold true, then these games should have conditioned people to the point where the majority of people play on the easiest setting possible.

    That still doesn't change the fact that your game play is unchanged. Unless you can demonstratively prove that having that easy setting has diminished your ability to play the game, then what is the issue?
    I disagree. Most games only allow to change the level down, but not up again. So it's mostly not an option. If you were right, we wouldn't even have this conversation because people are demanding this.
    But even if you are right...

    How is the other way round? Would you also by the same logic demand a hard mode in walking sims? A little shooter part in gone home? Because there are a lot of people who don't like those games and they should be for everyone, right?
    Don't you see how stupid it is to demand that everything should be for everybody?
    If you don't like difficult games, play easy games. If you don't like action games, play walking sims or strategy games or whatever. There are enough games out there for everyone, i don't understand people who come into a hobby or genre they don't like and then demand everything to be changed so to their likings. Why even be there in the first place?
    And i say that as someone that doesn't even like difficult games, i find Dark Souls annoying but people like it so more power to them.

  14. #174
    The point is that I would rather watch it on Youtube (LFR or skip) than spend $100 (or grind 100 hours for gear).

    Assassin's Creed Unity has some very powerful weapons.
    You get money by "wait". After many hours, you can buy these weapons.
    You can tell everyone that you beat the game. But did you?

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    How is the other way round? Would you also by the same logic demand a hard mode in walking sims? A little shooter part in gone home? Because there are a lot of people who don't like those games and they should be for everyone, right?
    Don't you see how stupid it is to demand that everything should be for everybody?
    I have no problem whatsoever with anyone demanding anything to be put in a game. You want a hard mode in a walking sim? Ask away. you want a little shooter part in gone home? Great! Ask them to add it. I may not ever use anything someone else has asked for, but they are welcome to request it. They can scream about it until they are blue in the face if they want.

    Let's say Company AAA whose games you like decides to add the skip feature to next their game. It will either a) increase sales, b) decrease sales, or c) have 0 impact on sales. If it is b or c, they know that it may not be worth it to do that (with a caveat. There are things and features in games that have been historically shown to have 0 impact for a vast majority of people, but will have a higher proportion of hatred if the feature is removed). If increases sales, then great! It will be easier for them to put out a sequel or further content because the game was a success.

    All features basically come down to a cost / benefit analysis for the company. Adding a skip feature is something that has a very low cost comparatively. If you can make more money off your game because of it, why not put it in?

    Adding one feature will not something for everyone. Each choice effects the size of the market. By simply having multiple difficulty levels instead of one they are already changing their market size. But if they could make something that was for everyone, would that be a bad thing?

  16. #176
    Solution in need of a problem.

    I mean, how often is the easiest difficulty of a game too challenging for anyone who can wiggle their fingers? As it's been noted by other posts, worst case you just put in a cheat code for invincibility or something, but with today's game development, cheat codes are now known as DLC, so people would have to pay to do that.

    I suppose there's a level of humorous irony in me saying that about cheat codes, seeing that people paid me to unlock the codes for Goldeneye back during my HS days.

  17. #177
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    I disagree, we all know exactly what for Dark Souls is known for, with a “super easy mode” it would be just another hack & slash game and would never have achieved the fame it got.
    It would not affecr you. I mean you can dissagree. But How does it affect you. Will it ruin your experinse? Will it insult your friends?
    Yes it would loose it Rep, but thegame would be as good, better i would say, Because more people can try it. I am not saying neff the orginal game mode, but i am all for more people can try it, and play it

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    It would not affecr you. I mean you can dissagree. But How does it affect you. Will it ruin your experinse? Will it insult your friends?
    Yes it would loose it Rep, but thegame would be as good, better i would say, Because more people can try it. I am not saying neff the orginal game mode, but i am all for more people can try it, and play it
    Prestige matters to some people.

    If anyone can pick up the game and say they beat it, it loses the value of being able to say it yourself. You might consider that silly, but there's literally nothing wrong with taking pride in an accomplishment. And there's a fine line between pride and arrogance of course.

    Example- Compare how many times you hear people brag about beating a new Call of Duty game, even on the highest difficulty, compared to how many times you hear people brag about beating Cuphead, or Dark Souls. I would bet the Cuphead/Dark Souls area wins out, because those games only have one mode, hard.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Prestige matters to some people.

    If anyone can pick up the game and say they beat it, it loses the value of being able to say it yourself. You might consider that silly, but there's literally nothing wrong with taking pride in an accomplishment. And there's a fine line between pride and arrogance of course.

    Example- Compare how many times you hear people brag about beating a new Call of Duty game, even on the highest difficulty, compared to how many times you hear people brag about beating Cuphead, or Dark Souls. I would bet the Cuphead/Dark Souls area wins out, because those games only have one mode, hard.
    Dark Souls has brain dead easy mode. It's called summoning help. There is absolutely 0 prestige in beating any Souls game.

    Even Cuphead is no where near as hard as the "its the dark souls!" meme claims. It is hard to S ranks on expert yes, beating the base game on regular is pretty much on par with Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze(and I didn't see people claiming it was "the dark souls of.." probably because they didn't see their favorite streamers who are shit at games failing at it)

  20. #180
    Here's an idea.

    "Finish" button.

    Install the game, press the button, beat the game. Uninstall it. Go jump off a fucking cliff because you are terrible.

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