so hows frost now?

[Piz813]

It is fun to manage Unholy-Cooldowns / Specter / Engine and if the fight length matches well with CDs it can be very satisfying, but I am glad we got the current Frost spec as an option.

With both weapons at 68 and ilvl around 940 I get very similar simDPS for Frost and Unholy but Frost is way more forgiving while doing raid mechanics. I enjoy Frost for Rare/M+ much more, the 1-Button-burst every ~45 seconds and easy target swapping ist great for M+ affixes.

i hear ya man. same boat. both weapons at 66 (filthy casual) ilevel 938 equipped in either spec and I Sim just about the same in both specs. i have more fun as Frost though. usually do frost on the last 3 on H then UH for first 4 on Mythic.

[Kluian05]

There is no brain power needed for Obliteration at all. BoS is still significantly more fun to play than Obliteration ever was or will be. To answer your question, yes I have...and there was no brain power needed to play it.

Please explain how BoS requires brain power and Obliteration does not. Obliteration takes setup just like BoS to maximize effectiveness. For example, you want to make sure you are between 1-2 runes and ~40 runic power when you start so you don't waste runes/RP during the Obliteration window.

I played BoS when it was 45-60 second duration, and sure back then it took more forethought on fight mechanics, etc. to have a proper breath. Now that it's reduced heavily in duration? Not as much.

[RuneDK]

Please explain how BoS requires brain power and Obliteration does not. Obliteration takes setup just like BoS to maximize effectiveness. For example, you want to make sure you are between 1-2 runes and ~40 runic power when you start so you don't waste runes/RP during the Obliteration window.

I played BoS when it was 45-60 second duration, and sure back then it took more forethought on fight mechanics, etc. to have a proper breath. Now that it's reduced heavily in duration? Not as much.

Maintaining breath is harder than making sure you have a couple runes and a half bar of RP before mindlessly pushing a cooldown and playing like normal essentially. Obviously it's not normal rotation and you juggle FS/Rime procs and Obliterate...but there's literally zero difficulty to Obliteration. Maintaining a longer breath is actually using resources at the right time and not just spamming buttons.

[Ange]

Obliteration takes setup just like BoS to maximize effectiveness. For example, you want to make sure you are between 1-2 runes and ~40 runic power when you start so you don't waste runes/RP during the Obliteration window.

Opener Sequence:

Remorseless Winter -> OB-fishing for RIME -> OB-fishing for RIME -> RIME/Howling Blast -> Frost Strike + Macro with Obliteration

STARTING OBLITERATION SEQUENCE WITH OPTIMAL RUNE/RP.

Obliteration takes no setup at all, since you fish for RIME at opener anyways.

Midfight Obliteration takes no care at all, your rune/runicpower is just enough to keep Frost Strike/OB alternating, as soon as Obliteration is ready you are at low rune/low runicpower and you can just keep pressing Frost Strike + Obliteration Macro.

Thats all you need for orange logs.

EZ.

[Kluian05]

Obliteration takes no setup at all, since you fish for RIME at opener anyways.

And then you proceed to discuss the ideal setup? If it required no set up, you would cast it immediately upon hitting the boss, which doesn't happen. Or immediately upon coming off CD. Which won't happen if you are rune or runic power starved, or no rime proc.

There are necessary constraints to the ability to maximize its potential. Though that argument can probably be made for all DPS CD's.

Anyways I don't want to beat a dead horse, everyone has their opinions. I just find it interesting how negative people feel about Obliteration, and this notion that a player becomes "dumb" or is lazy for playing it. Personally I swapped to it since it seemed to be the most consistent performance wise. I have no desire to hunt for proper unholy legendaries and learn that playstyle on my 3rd alt.

[Flykz]

Opener Sequence:

Remorseless Winter -> OB-fishing for RIME -> OB-fishing for RIME -> RIME/Howling Blast -> Frost Strike + Macro with Obliteration

STARTING OBLITERATION SEQUENCE WITH OPTIMAL RUNE/RP.

Obliteration takes no setup at all, since you fish for RIME at opener anyways.

Midfight Obliteration takes no care at all, your rune/runicpower is just enough to keep Frost Strike/OB alternating, as soon as Obliteration is ready you are at low rune/low runicpower and you can just keep pressing Frost Strike + Obliteration Macro.

Thats all you need for orange logs.

EZ.

You went from obliteration doesn't require any setup to the opening doesn't require any setup for obliteration. I sens some hypocrisy here but I understand, they destroyed the breath spec, so you're mad, but it's not a reason to say things like that to players who do like the (new?) obliterate spec. (And would like to know how forst is - well, no, it's not dumb.)

The amout of haste we got, with the need to constantly check for KM/rime procs and judging (yeah, you read that correctly) wathever to use, managing our RP, our availables runes and RW is nether dumb nor way simpler than the breath spec. With 4-50% haste i'd tell is even more difficult, but haste is not that much of an argument, even if it's relevant.

Edit: And as a personnal statement, i'd add that a spec like breath that require legos to perform well compared to a spec where you can rank with sephuz is somewhat a proof to a poor design. Obliterate may not be that fun for some ppl, but neither was breath.

[Hellborne87]

After full clearing all heroic and most mythic content for 12 raid tiers (difficulties obviously had different names in the past but moot point), I think I'm finally giving up on my DK. They just can't get it right. I found an old post from my guild's forums years back about how frustrated I was with DK dps, and fast forward, nothing has changed lol. We will never be Warlocks, Mages, Rogues, etc. We're a mediocre tank class with one low end dps spec, and one middle of the pack dps spec, and that's all we'll ever be, outside a few anomalies like Nighthold BoS... I hate the idea of changing mains after all these years, but I have finally had enough and know better. Such an awesome class with ridiculously cool class fantasy and potential, but we are right where Blizzard has wanted us to be the whole time.

[Kaver]

And then you proceed to discuss the ideal setup? If it required no set up, you would cast it immediately upon hitting the boss, which doesn't happen. Or immediately upon coming off CD. Which won't happen if you are rune or runic power starved, or no rime proc.

Now you're just being silly. Everything requires some kind of "set up", but the Obliteration build is the melee equivalent of BM hunters. Not being rune or runic power starved does not require a large amount of brain power, does it....


PS. I am a big fan of the obliteration build myself when I feel like turning the brain off for some mythic+'s

[Piz813]

What's this Oblit macro you speak of?

[Flykz]

Not being rune or runic power starved does not require a large amount of brain power, does it....

I may have missed something, but I doubt the current OB spec is about avoiding being without ressource, more like spending ressources on what is best, when it's best. (and when it's best on .7s GCD is nooot that "brain power off", if I may. But I agree that without brain you somewhat pull a decent dps.

[Ange]

You went from obliteration doesn't require any setup to the opening doesn't require any setup for obliteration. I sens some hypocrisy here but I understand, they destroyed the breath spec, so you're mad, but it's not a reason to say things like that to players who do like the (new?) obliterate spec. (And would like to know how forst is - well, no, it's not dumb.)...

Please don't allways assume everything posted here is for negativ bashing only. I enjoy Obliteration with its BM-Hunter like simplicity and I enjoyed Frost-BoS aswell. I am more than happy that the current Frost spec allows a more easy spec to be somewhot competitive in a heroic/mythic raid environment.

Check out my LFR/N/HC/Mythic raid kill amounts (40-50+ kill in every difficulty) from every raid tier this addon, I played a lot with all DK specs and pretty much enjoyed all of them.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...lackmoore/ahma

What's this Oblit macro you speak of?

If you use the normal opening sequence (FISHING FOR RIMES) you can unbind PoF and Obliteration from your bars and just use 2 macros with Obliterate and with Frost Strike.
You get a very good uptime for both short Cooldowns and you don't even have to track/trigger/time them to get orange logs.

#showtooltip Obliterate
/petattack
/startattack
/use [combat] 13
/use [combat] 14
/cast [combat] Pillar of Frost
/cast Obliterate

#showtooltip Frost Strike
/petattack
/startattack
/use [combat] 13
/use [combat] 14
/cast [combat] Pillar of Frost
/cast [combat] Obliteration
/cast Frost Strike

I got hundred of public logs to my DK, lots of orange logs and I just raid with normal/lowgeared groups, check the boss kill times, it is far away from overgeared-classstacked-logcheating killtimes. And yes, I never used PoF or Obliteration manually since 2 expansion packs.

Ahma@Aegwynn-EU
Mem@Aegwynn-EU
Ahma@Blackmoore-EU

[Cosmic Janitor]

After full clearing all heroic and most mythic content for 12 raid tiers (difficulties obviously had different names in the past but moot point), I think I'm finally giving up on my DK. They just can't get it right. I found an old post from my guild's forums years back about how frustrated I was with DK dps, and fast forward, nothing has changed lol. We will never be Warlocks, Mages, Rogues, etc. We're a mediocre tank class with one low end dps spec, and one middle of the pack dps spec, and that's all we'll ever be, outside a few anomalies like Nighthold BoS... I hate the idea of changing mains after all these years, but I have finally had enough and know better. Such an awesome class with ridiculously cool class fantasy and potential, but we are right where Blizzard has wanted us to be the whole time.

Unholy is doing great atm, what are you on about? It's true that we don't always have a spec to shine like some other classes, but we are certainly not the red haired step child either, especially now I don't see a reason to throw in the towel.

[Raiz]

Yeah not sure what he's smoking. Everything would have made sense if there weren't any bolded part in your quote.

Edit : To clarify, I'm frustrated with the way we play the dk. You're sometimes swimming in ressources and it pisses me off and sometimes you're not. But Frost ? They're quite in a good spot rotation-wise.

[Flykz]

Please don't allways assume everything posted here is for negativ bashing only. I enjoy Obliteration with its BM-Hunter like simplicity and I enjoyed Frost-BoS aswell. I am more than happy that the current Frost spec allows a more easy spec to be somewhot competitive in a heroic/mythic raid environment.

Check out my LFR/N/HC/Mythic raid kill amounts (40-50+ kill in every difficulty) from every raid tier this addon, I played a lot with all DK specs and pretty much enjoyed all of them.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...lackmoore/ahma

Yeah sorry for the quick assuming, I can be a little bit tense when I write, lol.

But anyway, what I'm trying to say about this spec is that you can indeed go the easy way, macro your PoF with OB and follow a certain rotation, but it's far from the potential of the spec - even if you're pulling orange numbers. It's easier to go orange because not much ppl play frost and not much ppl will have your legendaries (I don't, got the chest yesterday), and not much ppl will also have a good amount of artifact traits neither.

In short words : how is frost : fairly well, go for it if you want something simple, but also go for it if you want some challenge to perfect your playstyle.


And last words, quick examples on why macro pillar with OB is a bad idea (if you seek challenge, ofc) : you start pillar, but you got adds around. Well, no prob, you can wait the add to be destroyed, even pull syndragosa on them, and then cast your obliterate - you didn't use unsafe rimes to cleave (or none - wich lower our dps anyway), you didn't waste a GCD casting syndragosa, and same sorts of things apply to the chest leggo if you have it.
If you have concordance maybe you want to cast syndragosa as soon as possible, same with chest leggo, and if you're in an OB rotation you're loosing GCDs. (like you have 6 sec remaining to the buff, PoF CD is up, you start by syndragosa and chest leggo before pulling out OB).

[Kaver]

I may have missed something, but I doubt the current OB spec is about avoiding being without ressource, more like spending ressources on what is best, when it's best. (and when it's best on .7s GCD is nooot that "brain power off", if I may. But I agree that without brain you somewhat pull a decent dps.

Hey mate, you definitely missed something :P We were not talking about the frost rotation in general, but only about the "set up" before using Obliteration. It's not a good idea to be without ressources just before using Obliteration. For the rest of the rotation however, you're right.

The guy I was commenting on, said that the OB spec has a "build up" or "set up" because you need to not be rune starved or runic powered starved before popping the OB CD. My argue was then that this kind of "set up" does not require much brain power of the player

[Hctaz]

Hey mate, you definitely missed something :P

The guy I was commenting on, said that the OB spec has a "build up" or "set up" because you need to not be rune starved or runic powered starved before popping the OB CD. My argue was then that this kind of "set up" does not require much of the player

Yeah it definitely doesn't. I don't think I've ever hit Obliteration on CD during a boss fight and been like "Oh shit, I wasn't prepared." Occasionally I'll fuck up Remorseless Winter by using it when Obli's CD is less than 20 seconds, but that just goes to show how mindless the spec is now. I mean, the same EXACT thing was done for BoS (making sure not to use RW when BoS CD is 20 or less), but I expected to need to focus at least a little bit in order to get an optimal Breath so it wasn't strange to me to make sure my set up was getting to where it needed to be around the 30 second mark.

[Kaver]

Yeah it definitely doesn't. I don't think I've ever hit Obliteration on CD during a boss fight and been like "Oh shit, I wasn't prepared."

Haha exactly!

You need to be a special kind of moron to completely mess up Obliteration

[Raiz]

How is it even possible to be ressource starved ? Even 25 RP and 1 rune could be enough to keep it rolling.

[Piz813]

Please don't allways assume everything posted here is for negativ bashing only. I enjoy Obliteration with its BM-Hunter like simplicity and I enjoyed Frost-BoS aswell. I am more than happy that the current Frost spec allows a more easy spec to be somewhot competitive in a heroic/mythic raid environment.

Check out my LFR/N/HC/Mythic raid kill amounts (40-50+ kill in every difficulty) from every raid tier this addon, I played a lot with all DK specs and pretty much enjoyed all of them.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...lackmoore/ahma



If you use the normal opening sequence (FISHING FOR RIMES) you can unbind PoF and Obliteration from your bars and just use 2 macros with Obliterate and with Frost Strike.
You get a very good uptime for both short Cooldowns and you don't even have to track/trigger/time them to get orange logs.

#showtooltip Obliterate
/petattack
/startattack
/use [combat] 13
/use [combat] 14
/cast [combat] Pillar of Frost
/cast Obliterate

#showtooltip Frost Strike
/petattack
/startattack
/use [combat] 13
/use [combat] 14
/cast [combat] Pillar of Frost
/cast [combat] Obliteration
/cast Frost Strike

I got hundred of public logs to my DK, lots of orange logs and I just raid with normal/lowgeared groups, check the boss kill times, it is far away from overgeared-classstacked-logcheating killtimes. And yes, I never used PoF or Obliteration manually since 2 expansion packs.

Ahma@Aegwynn-EU
Mem@Aegwynn-EU
Ahma@Blackmoore-EU

Thank dude I'll give these a try today. Kinda wish I didn't dump ap in both weapons before crucible... stuck at 66 for both

[Flykz]

Edit : reply to deleted post.