Why aren't there Wrath and Catacylsm Ahead of the Curve/Cutting Edge raid achieves?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

My question is. Why does it matter?

[TheWorkingTitle]

It's a left over from the past where you had no mythic difficulty. If you want a AotC or CE achievement for those old tiers you can make one yourself. It's not that hard. They're just defeat last boss of the current tier while relevant. You still have the same achievements for clearing it today as you did back then, the only difference is that you can complete them in LFR while back then you would complete them on normal and heroic. You could pick the meta or just the single endboss of the tier achievement and link as your FoS achievement as you had one for both difficulties despite it not being a FoS as they are today for heroic and mythic, the date would tell you if they were done while current or not. Those who cared would know. This is old achievements you want which isn't really prioritized by blizz as they're just a tool to an end for them.

So you would rather people just stand pat with their AoTC or CE kill of a boss from Wrath/Cata being buried deep in the subsection of the raid achievements, rather than these aforementioned kills being turned into the visible Feats of Strength like the rest of the expansions thereafter are? What about the lack of uniformity between the two? Doesn't it make sense to make them FoS as well?

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My question is. Why does it matter?

Uniformity. Blizzard historically cares how their achievements are displayed. This takes the verifiable proof of Wrath/Cata raiding achievements and turns them into the modern AoTC/CE versions.

[Chillson]

I've said the nod to veteran raiders outweighs whatever backlash from those blowing smoke.

I'm curious as to why you think this?

Blizzard has made leaps and bounds to make this game more appealing to the casual player (the player base that makes up the other 99% who already won't get CE, mind you). Hell, even AotC was designed with the more casual player in mind. Why do you believe blizzard would be ok infuriating 99% of their player base (the majority that pays the subs, that let's blizzard create the content you enjoy)?

[Master Guns]

IMO it is mostly irrelevant at this point.

What? Add this just to enhance the bragging experience?
"Hey bro, I killed Madness when it was current!"
"Sure"
"Seriously, look at this achieve, I was a professional!"
"Nice"

You think that's silly, but that seems pretty logical to me..I'd be happy with it. People like to see their accomplishments.

[Eapoe]

Well Wrath was a bit of a mess with how raid achievements were handled. This would go a long way in corralling those achievements into the modern normalization of how they're currently given out (AoTC/CE).

Personally, I liked how Wrath achievements were handled. It was nice having elite(ish) achievements in the forms of: complete Trial of the Grand Crusader (hardest raid mode at the time) with 25 attempts left. Clear Naxx with no deaths on a single boss, with separate titles for 10/25 (have my 10 one, wish I also had 25). Title for 0 lights Yogg. They were nice niches and things that were, in a technical sense, harder to do when current than just Cutting Edge (not saying it's easy, just saying the Wrath achievements were pretty difficult comparatively).
Blizz released a blue post though they weren't going to keep doing it because it was too difficult to keep thinking ways to make encounters like Ulduar, basically activating hard mode by meeting certain requirements. I almost wish the reverse would happen and they remove those achievements for people who didn't do it when it was current, as some of those encounters were balls twistingly difficult.
Getting back on point, removing those achievements in place of cutting edge is not a solution. Each individual achievement back then was prestigious in its own way. I didn't even earn 0 lights when it was current, but seeing people that had was something to aspire to and, while maybe not admire, something to appreciate that another group of players could do. Now, cutting edge is more of a punchline to make fun of no lifers and something not many people actually care about.
Bottom line: for me, neat idea, but too much work when, taken into consideration, we have multiple achievements that actually represent the same thing, if not having even more meaning behind them than CE.

[A Chozo]

You think that's silly, but that seems pretty logical to me..I'd be happy with it. People like to see their accomplishments.

That is true, but some people like to brag. I can remember when I beat a final boss. My friends remember when we went there. We also got a achievement.

I'm all for uniformity, but I think there is also value in the old achieves without curve. They are a reminder of a different time. Modifying it would be re-writting a historical register.

Unless they simply give a feat-of-strenght to the folk who defeated the final boss before the subsequent patch. Neat! Useless, but Neat.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Why add in new Achievements for old content?

[MonsieuRoberts]

There was no need to incentivise people to participate before content was outdated.

[Eapoe]

I'm curious as to why you think this?

Blizzard has made leaps and bounds to make this game more appealing to the casual player (the player base that makes up the other 99% who already won't get CE, mind you). Hell, even AotC was designed with the more casual player in mind. Why do you believe blizzard would be ok infuriating 99% of their player base (the majority that pays the subs, that let's blizzard create the content you enjoy)?

Better question: why would 99% of the playerbase get angry, or even care? Kind of makes me laugh, casuals have demonstrated they don't give a shot about raiders, but care way too much about what raiders get for rewards for doing things they can't and/or "don't be care about."

[TheWorkingTitle]

I'm curious as to why you think this?

Blizzard has made leaps and bounds to make this game more appealing to the casual player (the player base that makes up the other 99% who already won't get CE, mind you). Hell, even AotC was designed with the more casual player in mind. Why do you believe blizzard would be ok infuriating 99% of their player base (the majority that pays the subs, that let's blizzard create the content you enjoy)?

Because this only affects those who played back then. Of those that played back then, I'd wager the majority did what they wanted to do raiding-wise. This change would mostly confirm that experience. The ones who complain, I believe, are a minority from that time period. Anyone who didn't even play then, that's just white noise as usual.

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Why add in new Achievements for old content?

It's really just a fix to an oversight. Not new, just altered. There's a uniformity issue, and historically Blizzard has proven they care how their achievements are displayed.

[Mirishka]

There's verifiable proof right there in the Achievement Date.

I think this is long overdue and a super easy fix that would be a welcome addition by many veteran raiders.

Thoughts?

Who the hell would care?

The most elite awesome raider in Wrath could be a casual player with next to no time on their hands now, and someone that was a complete noob back then could have become an incredible player in the years since (I know a priest that this is especially true of).

Utterly irrelevant. If I was a mythic raid leader the absolute last thing I would give half a damn about was 'but did u kill LK b4 nerfs in 2010'. Seriously, what kind of elitist straws do some of you people grasp at?

[Chillson]

Better question: why would 99% of the playerbase get angry, or even care? Kind of makes me laugh, casuals have demonstrated they don't give a shot about raiders, but care way too much about what raiders get for rewards for doing things they can't and/or "don't be care about."

Better question: why would 1% of the playerbase be happy, or even care? Kind of makes me laugh, hardcore raiders have demonstrated they don't give a shot about casuals, but care way too much about what casuals get for rewards for doing things they can and/or "don't be care about" <--- whatever this means

See how easy it is to make statements like this?

[TheWorkingTitle]

snip
Bottom line: for me, neat idea, but too much work when, taken into consideration, we have multiple achievements that actually represent the same thing, if not having even more meaning behind them than CE.

Fair enough. I think those achievements you spoke of (as well as Twilight Vanquisher and the like) were worthy of being made into Feats of Strength. It's a bit of a shame that most are still do-able now because it supremely devalues the difficulty of when they were current. I do disagree that it'd be too much work. I think it's as straight forward as possible. Set the dates to award AoTC or CE and have it sweep through the achievement dates.

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Who the hell would care?

The most elite awesome raider in Wrath could be a casual player with next to no time on their hands now, and someone that was a complete noob back then could have become an incredible player in the years since (I know a priest that this is especially true of).

Utterly irrelevant. If I was a mythic raid leader the absolute last thing I would give half a damn about was 'but did u kill LK b4 nerfs in 2010'. Seriously, what kind of elitist straws do some of you people grasp at?

Whew. This topic really rustles some jimmies. I care, obviously. Let me ask you some questions. Why do you care if Wrath/Cata raiders are retroactively rewarded updated achievements for the proof on their timestamped achievements? If it's SO irrelevant, this shouldn't even be a blip on your radar, no?

[Chillson]

Of those that played back then, I'd wager the majority did what they wanted to do raiding-wise.

Exactly this. They did what they wanted because there was no time frame for an AotC/CE to work towards. This change wouldn't be done in the sake of uniformity because the conditions simply aren't the same.

A synonym for uniformity is consistency. There has been clear consistency since MoP on how the AotC/CE achievement's are earned and when the deadline to earn them by are. If they retroactively added those to wrath/cata raids, the consistency wouldn't exist since there was never any indication on how to obtain them/when to obtain them by. That's where your idea of uniformity breaks down.

[Alvito]

It's not an oversight. The notion didn't exist back then.

Good luck with that. The OP seems like the type of person that says literally after everything.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Exactly this. They did what they wanted because there was no time frame for an AotC/CE to work towards. This change wouldn't be done in the sake of uniformity because the conditions simply aren't the same.

A synonym for uniformity is consistency. There has been clear consistency since MoP on how the AotC/CE achievement's are earned and when the deadline to earn them by are. If they retroactively added those to wrath/cata raids, the consistency wouldn't exist since there was never any indication on how to obtain them/when to obtain them by. That's where your idea of uniformity breaks down.

Nah, they did what they wanted, so the minority that would claim, "I would have tried harder" or what have you, wouldn't really matter. The uniformity is an aesthetic correction, which Blizzard has proven they care about.

[Frolk]

There's verifiable proof right there in the Achievement Date.

I think this is long overdue and a super easy fix that would be a welcome addition by many veteran raiders.

Thoughts?

W H Y should they fucking bother with giving us achievements for things we did 8 years ago.

[TheWorkingTitle]

W H Y should they fucking bother with giving us achievements for things we did 8 years ago.

Achievement uniformity in the way they are displayed. There's verifiable proof right there on the date earned. This would just change those old achievements that are buried in Wrath/Cata subsection of the Achievements to their correct place in the Feat of Strength tab. Blizzard historically has proven they care about how their achievements are displayed.

[lazypeon100]

achives came out in bc bro

At the very end, as it was wrath prepatch.

Most people associate achieves with wrath.

[Chillson]

At the very end, as it was wrath prepatch.

Most people associate achieves with wrath.

I remember getting Sunwell KJ to 22% the day before the pre-patch and achieves came out. They were nerfing it after that. The prestige of killing him was going away since the nerfs were so much. I never killed him in BC. Easily my saddest moment in WoW raiding history. I don't need any sort of achieve given to people to remind me I didn't kill him in time. I know this is a BC story, but the concept applies to Wrath/Cata and CE).