Roger Goodell tells NFL owners ‘everyone should stand for the national anthem’

[Zeta333]

actually you are disrespecting those that fight for the flag, by dishonoring the ideals it represents if you object to people engaging in protest.

Too many people mistake a piece of cloth as being important, rather than the ideals and principles it represents.

People have fought and died, not for the fucking flag, but for the rights it embodies, and one of those is freedom of expression and the right to protest.

i never said they cant, i said i dont agree with them. I dont agree with most protesting.

[Spectral]

It's not their fault they have a bunch of racist viewers who get offended over people kneeling.

That's one hell of a jump to go from "not keen on anthem protests" to "racist".

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Entire teams kneeling in Europe in solidarity with the NHL players.

http://www.espnfc.com.au/hertha-berl...undesliga-game

Note how nobody in Europe gives a fuck about them kneeling or doing whatever during their national anthem.

What do we call the obsession of some americans about what happens during an anthem? It's eerily similar to how North-Korea feels about ceremonies for their Dear Leader. Or is it just akin more to a form of political correctness where not obeying it is just an arbitrary way of feeling offended?

Well, yeah, that's what social norms are. I don't think there being different social norms in the USA than Europe means anywhere near as much as you're reading into it here.

[Spectral]

I'm well aware. It's just ironic that this form of 'political correctness' comes from the side which usually rails so hard against it.

I think the difference in social norms are important though, in some sense, but not necessarily relevant for the subject of discussion in this thread.

We agree

[Spectral]

Not really. A large amount of them just don't like black people doing any sort of protest. I can understand not liking BLM blocking streets and shit, I don't even like it but I understand how it's effective. This form of protest harms no one, interferes with no one's life whatsoever and only "offends" the most fragile of egos. The only real reason to be against it is because you're against their actual protest which is to raise awareness of racial inequality. Seems like sugar coated racism to me.

Can you think of any reasons that people who aren't actually particularly racist might not like the protests?

[Orange Joe]

Can you think of any reasons that people who aren't actually particularly racist might not like the protests?

Blind nationalism. They put the symbol before what it represents.

[announced]

Sports should be a sacred thing, not a platform for your current political beliefs. If you want to make address racial inequalities good for you, make a speech after the NFL game if you want, but don't disrespect the flag or the others that fought for their country because you feel like taking a stand.

[Stop Pretending]

Sports should be a sacred thing, not a platform for your current political beliefs. If you want to make address racial inequalities good for you, make a speech after the NFL game if you want, but don't disrespect the flag or the others that fought for their country because you feel like taking a stand.

I served, and I don't feel disrespected. Maybe those who haven't served, shouldn't tell the ones who have how to feel about this issue. Thank you.

[Spectral]

Yeah, because they're fucking stupid and think it's somehow disrespectful to our country or soldiers but for some reason can't articulate how that's the case. Just like how not a single person in this thread has yet to make an argument for how it's disrespectful.

So, either they're racist or stupid.

Blind nationalism. They put the symbol before what it represents.

Both of these responses strike me as virulently wrong. If you're incapable of viewing anyone that thinks people should stand for the anthem as anything other than "racist or stupid", you're failing miserably at basic empathy in exactly the same fashion as the people you're targeting. I'm sure you won't be, but you should both be ashamed.

[Amnaught]

disrespecting the flag and those that fight for it.

The flag represents all Americans, not just the military. This crazy worship thing you've got for the troops is patriotism, but forcing it on others is not. That's more like tyranny.

[Mormolyce]

Both of these responses strike me as virulently wrong. If you're incapable of viewing anyone that thinks people should stand for the anthem as anything other than "racist or stupid", you're failing miserably at basic empathy in exactly the same fashion as the people you're targeting. I'm sure you won't be, but you should both be ashamed.

I find it very difficult to feel empathy for people who revere a symbol ahead of the freedoms it represents.

The only thing I can conclude about these people is that they don't like being reminded of this topic and want it to go away so they can watch sports and not have to be involved in or have any responsibility for their society.

[Spectral]

There's a difference between thinking someone should stand for the anthem and saying someone is disrespecting our country or soldiers by not standing for the anthem. It's fine that they think they should stand. It's not fine to make up some illogical reason for why it's wrong to not stand in an attempt to discredit the reason they're actually doing it. It's especially wrong to call them "sons of bitches" for exercising their rights.

You're misrepresenting my argument so before you reply maybe try understanding it better.

I find it very difficult to feel empathy for people who revere a symbol ahead of the freedoms it represents.

The only thing I can conclude about these people is that they don't like being reminded of this topic and want it to go away so they can watch sports and not have to be involved in or have any responsibility for their society.

Both of these are far afield from the initial claim I addressed, which was:

Not really. A large amount of them just don't like black people doing any sort of protest. I can understand not liking BLM blocking streets and shit, I don't even like it but I understand how it's effective. This form of protest harms no one, interferes with no one's life whatsoever and only "offends" the most fragile of egos. The only real reason to be against it is because you're against their actual protest which is to raise awareness of racial inequality. Seems like sugar coated racism to me.

Aside from any commentary on the object-level merits of the protest, the notion that anyone that think these protests aren't a good thing is racist is just absurd rhetoric.

[Mormolyce]

Aside from any commentary on the object-level merits of the protest, the notion that anyone that think these protests aren't a good thing is racist is just absurd rhetoric.

I don't think that of everyone, but I think there's definitely a subset of those people who are motivated by either explicit or implicit racism.

[ohiostate124]

I served, and I don't feel disrespected. Maybe those who haven't served, shouldn't tell the ones who have how to feel about this issue. Thank you.

Then you know that you can’t protest in uniform. That’s my issue with the whole thing. Protesting is fine. Just don’t do it at work in the company uniform.

[Spectral]

I don't think that of everyone, but I think there's definitely a subset of those people who are motivated by either explicit or implicit racism.

I don't doubt that at all. I object to what I think amounts to a "everyone I disagree with is racist" response, which multiple people are restoring to as a mindkilling copout.

[SoSuMe]

Well then your whole argument is stupid as Trump would be no different than anyone else in authority, since there are rules and laws everywhere that lim it our freedoms. I cant do whatever speed I want due to speeding tickets. I cant run people off the road who cant drive. I cant just scream and carry on in public places like a movie theater or a classroom. So Trump is no different than everyone else since the list of people ranging from world leaders to our parents have put barriers to complete freedom. I am also laying odds that nobody is thinking along those lines when they said that Trump did restrict anyones freedoms.

You might also want to do some more research before accusing someone of being an alt account or tell MMOC to change their rules to not allow new people to register on the website. When i signed up I didnt see anything saying you need to be registered for over a year before you are allowed to post. Of course now it sounds like you are trying to restrict my freedoms so I should treat you the same way you treat Trump I suppose.

Ok so you are also for gun restrictions? because you know we already have restrictions...

[Orbitus]

Sports should be a sacred thing, not a platform for your current political beliefs. If you want to make address racial inequalities good for you, make a speech after the NFL game if you want, but don't disrespect the flag or the others that fought for their country because you feel like taking a stand.

It has been a political thing for a very long time. The 1968 Olympics had the Black Panther salute from 1st and 3rd in an event.


This was barely after the civil rights act of 64, and even then it was still very political.

[Kolbjorn]

Then you know that you can’t protest in uniform. That’s my issue with the whole thing. Protesting is fine. Just don’t do it at work in the company uniform.

Do you own their company? If not, who are you to tell them what they're allowed to do on company time?

I know it's all the rage lately to pretend that Facebook/web forums are writing their employee handbook, but nope.

[Najnaj]

Your not protesting racial injustice by kneeling or sitting for the nation anthem, your disrespecting the flag and those that fight for it.

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if they acknowledge a problem then they have to start paying for it.

Do you fight for a striped handkerchief? I would have hoped for a better reason but...what ever floats your boat.

[I Push Buttons]

Why, what's wrong with that?

So if you owned a business and some of your employees were doing something that loses you money (knowingly doing it at that, they know their actions are going to harm your business and do it anyways), you would be ok with that?

[SoSuMe]

One would think since they have the uniform on they are already “on the job”. Even when they are at practice they are “on the job”. Professional athletes don’t just work a few hours a week. It is also in their contract they have to represent the team in a decent manner.

Then why dont they play the anthem before practice if it part of the job?