Time to increase gap in raid loot?

[Jastall]

There's already enough ilvl inflation over the course of an xpack, no need to pile up more. Just make Titanforging cap at the base level of the next difficulty.

[Jaylock]

And this is exactly why you think titanforging is bad and your method is worse. You have no understanding of the system at all and want to make up things in order to prove your point.

The current system does not give you the same loot in LFR as it does mythic. Let's use Antorus as our example:

LFR: 915 - 925
Normal: 930 - 940
Heroic: 945 - 955
Mythic: 960-970

Mythic loot alone is +45 iLvL's higher than LFR. There is no way that is the same as you say. Now you want to take titanforging into play. LFR if it was to titanforge to mythic level 7 times to have the 925 go to 960 alone. To hit titanforge cap it would need to hit it 12 times with the 925 loot. Mythic at 960 loot would only need to hit it 5 times. That's a drastic difference and more incentive to do Mythic as you can hit the titanforge cap a lot easier.

No one said anyone wanted anything free. People want to the incentive for content to always be a viable way of gearing which it is now. You cap things and you remove things being relevant. Just because you don't want to do World Quests or Mythic+ to get gear doesn't mean other's don't. They should be rewarded with the chance for it to proc that high. You want to do Mythic raids that's fine. You are rewarded with base high level gear to start with and a better chance of titanforging to cap. This is means you need less rolls overall, because the more rolls you have the higher your chance of it giving a tetriary stat or socket.

Again, no one said anything about "free loot" or "mail gear". That's everyone's fall back argument when they realize their argument falls flat is to take what someone said and automatically turn it into something that wasn't close.

The game didn't work in the past and if it did we wouldn't be here. You had to do lower content to get items for higher content (such as trinkets, set pieces etc). Once you got what you needed from a raid it was just boring farm for everyone else and you had nothing to look forward too. Now you have something to look forward too and any piece of loot that drops you can see if it's an upgrade.

Why do people who primarily do LFR need loot higher than 915? I mean it provides gear that is viable to complete that content, so why should they need anything higher than the base 915 ilvl?

I think thats the point. What purpose does gear serve for the LFR dude when all he's doing is LFR? If he decides to do more challenging content, he should be rewarded with better gear. The game shouldn't keep an incentive to continually do the easiest shit form of content, it should incent you to do harder more challenging content if gear power progression is your main goal. (which it is for the LFR ppl because all they bitch and moan about is better gear, even though they tell you they just "want to see the content" which is a complete bullshit lie)

[Twdft]

Whole difficulty system is a horrible mess, I would really wager to bring 4.1\4.2 raid difficulties.
Get rid of LFR and Mythic, leave normal easy and elevate heroic to current mythic difficulty levels. Bring back 10\25(20).

Dear god, no. Flexible raid sizes IMO is the best thing that ever happened to non-mythic raid guilds. We don't have to bench anyone and can still raid when 3 guys are stuck in traffic or whatever.

[Kaesebrezen]

Why do people who primarily do LFR need loot higher than 915? I mean it provides gear that is viable to complete that content, so why should they need anything higher than the base 915 ilvl?

What LFR hero feels when he gets that single 955 item lvl (if at all) per raid tier: he's happy.

What a mythic raider feels when the LFR hero gets a 955 itemlvl: My effort is totally undermined, the 0.5 less average item lvl difference is totally undermining the effort i put into leeching the loot from the work my raid leader put into organizing/recruiting/keeping the raid alive.

Let's quote the only good post in this whole thread:

I always have to laugh when I see posts like this. The chance of that happening is amazingly small. You've never seen someone completely decked out in LFR TF gear. You might see someone that only raids LFR have decent ilevel because they also run Mythic+ though. I've seen a handful of screenshots of max level TF items from LFR during Nighthold but nobody ever has more than 1 LFR piece that TFs really high. It's THAT rare. When people see it they flip their shit and show people here and on reddit. Extremely rare.

Lets me real here, as Mythic raiders we make up the extreme minority. There are more competitive pet battlers than there are Mythic raiders. For all the talk of how PvP is completely dead in WoW there are more PvPers than us. We are such a small minority, we get the highest base ilevel gear because we do the hardest content. We get mounts and achievements and we raid Mythic because we enjoy raiding Mythic.

Nobody should care if someone outside of their raid gets a nice piece of gear. I have to tell you I really don't care if some pleb gets a couple nice pieces that are around the same item level as the base item level of every single piece of gear that drops for us. Doesn't bother me. I think titanforging is great for the game, it's great for everyone that's not a Mythic raider and Blizzard shouldn't gut the system to cater to us.

At worst they could just cap it 5~ ilevels below current tier Mythic base and then Mythic raiders wouldn't obsess over it. Re-adjust every so often like they do with the dungeons. Going back to the old way of gear just warforging 5/10 levels would feel like punishing the 97% for the insecurities of the 3%. The only reason to have any issue with TF is if you're in that 3% or if you're a super hardcore Asmongold fan and believe every word that comes out of his mouth for some reason.

[Khallid]

and you know it how ?

just because none of you friends do that it doesnt mean average joe doesnt treat it as content to clear.

the best example are world bosses droping 860 itlv - its complete shit gear by stnadards of what argus drops and yet ton of groups form weekly to kill them. so people do world quests for gear even if you think they do not.

See, you're just arguing something completely different for no reason. If you read the OP of this thread, he's talking about item level of RAID DIFFICULTIES and how titanforging is an issue IN THAT CONTEXT. So in that context no one does World Quests to gain gear. Anyone who raids at heroic level has a near zero chance of getting an upgrade from World Quests. I'm not arguing about alts or super casuals because that is not the context of this topic.

[Sanguinerd]

There are definitely good and bad sides to the current system, but the salt far outweighs the bad so let's keep it!

[Dizzeeyooo]

A lot of people will refuse to help friends and stuff because they feel it's pointless unless they have an alt to take in there

curious why we all have to live with the shit system of titanforging just because some people are useless friends

wasnt that more ridiculus that someone who wants to do some old content with his friends couldnt possible get any upgrades out of it ?
\

why do you need extra incentives to help friends? whats the point of being their friend in the first place if the game has to bribe you to want to help them?

[potis]

I think the Titanforging needs to change in a sense of only up to the next raid tier, not above it.

I cant have a friend playing 24/7 does M+ 24/7 and our only difference is 3 points on Artifact while he clears most of Mythic, and i refuse to raid anything above HC, while he has 939 equipped ilvl, and i have 936 cause i got lucky this raid with drops, it doesnt feel right.

The item should only TF up to the next HC level, like is the item 900? Either from World Boss or Normal raid? 915 Max.

Is it next raid World boss? Aka 930? 945 max, not 955.

[Uoyredrum]

How to fix ilvl problems:

-Get rid of multiple difficulties
-Get rid of Titan Forging

What you gain:

-Time spent balancing 4 difficulties now put into balancing flex, which is now everything. Ilvls are now just progressive throughout an individual raid instead of trying to balance the ilvls between 4 difficulties + dungeons and worrying about titanforging.
-More small raids mixed with medium/large raids, with different loot of similar ilvls to compliment each other
-You no longer have massive ilvl bloat throughout an expansion. BC was ilvls 81-164 if you include thoridal, Legion is 640-970 including legendaries or 1000 with that new one.

Win/Win

[Twdft]

-Get rid of multiple difficulties

What you lose: a lot of subscriptions because a lot of players stand infront of a brick wall and rather quit.

[Frolk]

How to fix ilvl problems:

-Get rid of multiple difficulties
-Get rid of Titan Forging

What you gain:

-Time spent balancing 4 difficulties now put into balancing flex, which is now everything. Ilvls are now just progressive throughout an individual raid instead of trying to balance the ilvls between 4 difficulties + dungeons and worrying about titanforging.
-More small raids mixed with medium/large raids, with different loot of similar ilvls to compliment each other
-You no longer have massive ilvl bloat throughout an expansion. BC was ilvls 81-164 if you include thoridal, Legion is 640-970 including legendaries or 1000 with that new one.

Win/Win

Top grade armchair dev here, 10/10 work

[Redroniksre]

Did they? Where did you get this info from?
Oh, thats right. You made it up.

Or you use your brain. Every expansion has been making raiding easier to get into in a effort to encourage people to go into higher difficulties. Yet raiding participation in difficulties above LFR is still pretty low. Common sense really.

[Aggrophobic]

Or you use your brain. Every expansion has been making raiding easier to get into in a effort to encourage people to go into higher difficulties. Yet raiding participation in difficulties above LFR is still pretty low. Common sense really.

No, raiding has not been made easier.
Again, you're making stuff up.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Should go the other way. Go back to Cata style, with 7 iLvls between each difficulty, and remove TFIng/socket procs.

Shouldn't have tried to fix what wasn't broken back then.

[deadman1]

Nope just get rid of wf/tf that will fix a lot of power issues.

[Redroniksre]

No, raiding has not been made easier.
Again, you're making stuff up.

Raiding is not easier, getting into raiding is easier than it was back in the day. Again you aren't reading properly.

[Aggrophobic]

Raiding is not easier, getting into raiding is easier than it was back in the day. Again you aren't reading properly.

What, like opening the door?
Yeah, it's been easy since they removed attunements but that was long ago.

[Hablelol]

Honestly, raiding Mythic isn't suppose to be about "getting uber gears". Mythic is suppose to be about the challenge and attempting to overcome it. People need to get off their ideas of "I need high ilvl gear because I do this, get away from me you little ants" type ideas.

If you want gear to be awarded at a higher ilvl then be prepared for the encounters to be scaled to match it. Meaning the content would be even harder then you would be complaining about the challenge.



The reason is because Titanforging is actually good for the game the way it is. You should be able to do any piece of content and have the chance of being rewarded with something higher. It gives you incentives to do other parts of the content rather than one area. If you know it's going to cap out at X lvl then you'll get to a point where you aren't wanting to do it because it gives you nothing. Titanforging helps give parts of the game an incentive to still be active. If World Quests has a cap then after you are X ilvl you wouldn't even consider doing them. That in turns starts to make WQ useless and then that part of the content is gone. This continue to applies to other areas of the game.

But in this sense "incentive" is replace with an almost necessity. With trinkets like Whispers, Draught, CoF, etc. some people feel the need to do LFR every week even when they're 50+Ilvls higher than what it drops because a TF LFR trinket may be better than anything they can get in Mythic (other than that same trinket). the forging system is AWESOME, but needs a middleground.

[Redroniksre]

What, like opening the door?
Yeah, it's been easy since they removed attunements but that was long ago.

Attunements, Multiple difficulties, Flex raid sizes (And before that, reduced raid sizes). All were done in an effort to encourage more people to raid, which still failed to produce as much of an impact as they wanted.

[Aggrophobic]

Attunements, Multiple difficulties, Flex raid sizes (And before that, reduced raid sizes). All were done in an effort to encourage more people to raid, which still failed to produce as much of an impact as they wanted.

But at the same time they made raiding less rewarding and less intresting.
So, yeah.