Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Citizen T]

I cannot believe how screwed up the FBI's NICS is. I bought (or more correctly, tried to buy) a rifle and a handgun Wednesday from two different stores (great sale, but neither store had both guns I wanted). My background check for the rifle was "delayed", but 5 hours later the NICS for the pistol went right through. I am STILL waiting for the FBI to get back to the store on the rifle. If the FBI cant hand something as simple as this, it makes you wonder how they can handle anything....

This could be easily explained by the first seller making a mistake/typo while entering your data. Even something as simple as entering an incorrect middle initial can cause delays.

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From a practical point of view I don't see any reason to have a gun at home. How often do you use your guns, how often happens something that you need to defend yourself with a gun. Maybe you have some fun shooting some cans or doing some other shooting practice.

How many people got killed by guns (from criminals, insane driven people, by accident etc) and how many people got safed by guns from home users. In how many cases was it necessary to pull a gun instead of an alternative to defuse a danger situation? You don't need to pull a gun if an unarmed / melee armed attacker threatens you.

About 33000 firearms deaths annually.
Defensive firearms uses are somewhere between 65000 and 2.5 million depending on what study you want to believe. So really defensive gun usage is pretty much greater than firearm deaths by a good amount. Somewhere between twice as common to almost 100 times as common.

I even pulled the numbers from the same wiki site so you can't say I'm cherry picking data to get the best results from each data point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

[Millyraynge]

About 33000 firearms deaths annually. Defensive firearms uses are somewhere between 65000 and 2.5 million depending on what study you want to believe.

yeah, there are unfortunately still three important questions unanswered and in my opinion not answerable:

1: In how many cases was a gun REALLY necessary to defuse the situation?
2: How many of those defused situations happend due to the easy gun access?
3: How many of those studies are 100% independently from the gun industry?

Firearm uses from police/military/security service is something different than the the use of guns by home users. How many lives got safed by gun-armed home users (if an unarmed attacker kicks your door makes a gun not necessary / your live is not really in danger).

[TITAN308]

From a practical point of view I don't see any reason to have a gun at home. How often do you use your guns, how often happens something that you need to defend yourself with a gun.

I own 2 fire extinguishers in my home.

In 36 years times I've had a fire in my home: zero.

By your logic, a fire extinguisher is not a practical product.

For that matter, neither is car insurance since I've never had a wreck.

You don't need to pull a gun if an unarmed / melee armed attacker threatens you.

So you are telling me women, the elderly, or the weak shouldn't have a gun to defend themselves from a 230lb in-shape melee attacker?

I know the concept is hard, but believe it or not, not all gun owners are healthy white males.

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right wing logic'

✓ eugenics -because different people are dangerous
✓ muslim -ban because muslims are dangerous
✓ abortion ban- because killing is wrong
BUT DONT limit my guns I LOVE FREEDOM
\

k

left wing "logic"

see above quote

(am I doing it right?)

[Kellhound]

With NICS, it's always handy to have the most oddball name possible. The rarer your name, the less likely it'll flag something close. If the system was down, it wouldn't be a "delay" afaik. If you don't get them occasionally, then someone probably entered something wrong.

I have a rare last name and two middle names, and I gave them my SSN.

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What is NICS? /s

I show my GWCL, fill out my paperwork, and leave. :P

You must live in a commie state that doesn't issue licenses. lol

I live in a shall issue CCL state actually, I still have to do NICS though.

[Svifnymr]

What is NICS? /s

I show my GWCL, fill out my paperwork, and leave. :P

You must live in a commie state that doesn't issue licenses. lol

Florida's CWL is issued through licensing division which doesn't qualify as an exemption, so we (through FDLE) need a background even if we have a CWL.

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I have a rare last name and two middle names, and I gave them my SSN.

Does it happen occasionally? Otherwise this is most likely an error on the data-entry side.

[Kellhound]

yeah, there are unfortunately still three important questions unanswered and in my opinion not answerable:

1: In how many cases was a gun REALLY necessary to defuse the situation?
2: How many of those defused situations happend due to the easy gun access?
3: How many of those studies are 100% independently from the gun industry?

Firearm uses from police/military/security service is something different than the the use of guns by home users. How many lives got safed by gun-armed home users (if an unarmed attacker kicks your door makes a gun not necessary / your live is not really in danger).

If someone kicks down my door (a rather violent act), they are not going to live long, visibly armed or not. The safety of my family far exceeds an aggressive intruder's need to continue to exist.

[Citizen T]

yeah, there are unfortunately still three important questions unanswered and in my opinion not answerable:

1: In how many cases was a gun REALLY necessary to defuse the situation?
2: How many of those defused situations happend due to the easy gun access?
3: How many of those studies are 100% independently from the gun industry?

Firearm uses from police/military/security service is something different than the the use of guns by home users. How many lives got safed by gun-armed home users (if an unarmed attacker kicks your door makes a gun not necessary / your live is not really in danger).

1. Since I wasn't there being the one threatened, I'll side with the person defending themself and go with.. all of them
2. Again, since the gun was used to defend themself, I'd have to say all of them had easy access to the gun. If they hadn't it would not have ended with a defensive gun use but as a victim of a crime.
3. Did you read the wiki. It had sources for the statistics if you have some doubt about them.

Again, did you read the wiki? It states of the 65000 statistic that they were all related to crime and that 20% were police officers. This still greatly exceeds the firearms deaths each year - even more so when you only count 1/3 of those deaths as actually being due to the intentional shooting of someone other than themself.

oh.. and if someone kicks in my door, by the time I find out whether or not they are armed its too late

[Kellhound]

Florida's CWL is issued through licensing division which doesn't qualify as an exemption, so we (through FDLE) need a background even if we have a CWL.

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Does it happen occasionally? Otherwise this is most likely an error on the data-entry side.

Oddly, both were delayed, the pistol by just a few hours. This is the first time it's ever happened, though I have not had the opportunity to buy many firearms the past 15 years (having kids tends to limit free money). I have only purchased 2 handguns and 2 rifles in that time. I do miss the time when I was single and could buy a new firearm every few months at times.

[Stormdash]

right wing logic'

✓ eugenics -because different people are dangerous
✓ muslim -ban because muslims are dangerous
✓ abortion ban- because killing is wrong
BUT DONT limit my guns I LOVE FREEDOM
\

k

It's precious, albeit dangerously ignorant, you associate eugenics with right-wing politics. Diametrically opposite of reality.

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Florida CWL holders still need an NICS check for each purchase through an FFL, only thing it gains you is exemption from the waiting period on handguns.

[TITAN308]

Weird. In GA our license is accepted as a NICS check. We still fill out the standard form, but it just goes straight into dealer records and I walk out the door.

[Kellhound]

Finally got the call that my paperwork for my rifle came through. Monday I get my AR-556, sale price $500.

[Tiwack]

I feel sorry for you if you think you need a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting with or use for sports on the shooting range. Is your society really that much of a "wild-west" still and if it is don't you think it's high time to try and do something about it?

[Kellhound]

I feel sorry for you if you think you need a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting with or use for sports on the shooting range. Is your society really that much of a "wild-west" still and if it is don't you think it's high time to try and do something about it?

Americans tend to not like to be victims, so that isnt likely to change.

[Ghostpanther]

I feel sorry for you if you think you need a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting with or use for sports on the shooting range. Is your society really that much of a "wild-west" still and if it is don't you think it's high time to try and do something about it?

I feel sorry for those who do not have the right to use a firearm to help equal the odds against someone trying to harm them.

[Roxinius]

I feel sorry for you if you think you need a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting with or use for sports on the shooting range. Is your society really that much of a "wild-west" still and if it is don't you think it's high time to try and do something about it?

i feel sorry for you that your view of why we have guns and our country is so skewed

[ohiostate124]

I feel sorry for you if you think you need a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting with or use for sports on the shooting range. Is your society really that much of a "wild-west" still and if it is don't you think it's high time to try and do something about it?

So what you’re saying is, you don’t understand the second amendment?

[Dystemper]

From a practical point of view I don't see any reason to have a gun at home. How often do you use your guns, how often happens something that you need to defend yourself with a gun. Maybe you have some fun shooting some cans or doing some other shooting practice.

How many people got killed by guns (from criminals, insane driven people, by accident etc) and how many people got safed by guns from home users. In how many cases was it necessary to pull a gun instead of an alternative to defuse a danger situation? You don't need to pull a gun if an unarmed / melee armed attacker threatens you.

I doint see why you need a smoke alarm or a fire extinguisher. How often does your home catch fire ? I dont see why you need seat belts in your car. How often are you in a a serious accident? You should just drive slower.

A firearm is used approximately 2 million times a year to prevent a crime or serious harm. Most of the time with out a shot being fired

[Tiwack]

A firearm is used approximately 2 million times a year to prevent a crime or serious harm. Most of the time with out a shot being fired

So most of the time you'd achieve the same when equipped with a kitchen knife or baseball bat in your home. If cops were the only ones with guns they'd rarely have to use them.

i feel sorry for you that your view of why we have guns and our country is so skewed

Tell me what I'm missing then if it's not to have regular shootouts between cops and criminals?

I feel sorry for those who do not have the right to use a firearm to help equal the odds against someone trying to harm them.

You have every right to defend yourself when you feel it necessary and instead of leaving people with crime as their only option you could give them a helping hand if you really wanted to alleviate theirs and yours problems.

So what you’re saying is, you don’t understand the second amendment?

Do you? It was put in place so people could bring their own guns when going to war so states wouldn't have to supply them themselves. It's antiquated and has no basis in modern America. Unless you mean to start-up militias for another civil war?

[TITAN308]

Do you? It was put in place so people could bring their own guns when going to war so states wouldn't have to supply them themselves. It's antiquated and has no basis in modern America. Unless you mean to start-up militias for another civil war?

What you think doesn't matter. SCOTUS ruled on this.

You can say the sky is green until the universe ends, that doesn't make your personal opinion valid.

[Tiwack]

What you think doesn't matter. SCOTUS ruled on this.

You can say the sky is green until the universe ends, that doesn't make your personal opinion valid.

Sure thing Mr. Thought-police. Of course, SCOTUS is just backing up the written language as is their job. If you wanted your politicians to change things you could have them do so, it's their job. Don't tell people what does and doesn't matter in their minds. Plebs rule through representative democracy or does that not matter as well?