How 'MeToo' is exposing the scale of sexual abuse

[Jessicka]

I can't agree with that.

I've spent the last 7 years of my life developing my career. If I was put in a position like this tomorrow, I can't just up and change careers. I have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and myself to take care of. I can't just jump into a new career like that.

Now, i'm not saying people who give into sexual coercion to continue their careers should do so. But I don't think it is good to excuse those in power of coercing people into sex in order for the employee to keep their job.

Well exactly, people who've got that far, to Hollywood, have dedicated their lives since they were children to pursuing that dream. Often with massive sacrifice from family as well.

[Deleted]

Applicant: I guess I don't have much of a choice.

The choice is "keep looking for a job". I mean money is important, but by that logic you might as well argue that anyone who can't find a job is forced into prostitution.

[Kathandira]

While you're correct, the original #MeToo post that has been reposted a few hundred thousand times by now specifically calls only for women who have been victims to share their experiences. The casual erasure of male victims and female perpetrators is impossible to escape in this space.

I actually just went through this on FB. Here is the exchange (copy and pasted).

From my friend:
Me Too and I will.
Not everyone who's assaulted or harassed is a woman. But statistically it's more women than not. If I see any of you men posting trying to make this mainly about you you'll instantly be deleted and written off. Give us this. It's hard as hell to literally go out in public sometimes in fucking gym clothes, nevermind going to an event or out in some outfit where were "asking for it". We are not ever asking for it. I'm not saying not post if you're someone who can given experience. The amount of women I know who are petrified to go anywhere alone whether it be daylight or night time is astronomical and upsetting as can be. No not just women get this but most of the people who do are. Those of you who don't understand it, I have no words. We can all do better to make this less of an issue. The amount of posts I've seen in the last day that weren't Me Too related is minimal. Does anyone actually know a woman who hasn't been harassed or assaulted? I'd be shocked to find one.

My reply:
I'm fairly certain you aren't asking men not to post 'Me Too' if they have been harassed, abused, or raped. Just want to confirm. I have plenty of male friends who are also posting 'Me Too' and I feel it is worth seeing them coming forward as well.

Reply from my friend's friend:
I know men have been harassed but this was a movement about the crazy statistics of how much women deal with it. It’s like posting #alllivesmatter during this time. It doesn’t negate what men go through just to acknowledge what women go through. If men want to express their stories that’s great but This was a movement for women at this time.

- - - Updated - - -

The choice is "keep looking for a job". I mean money is important, but by that logic you might as well argue that anyone who can't find a job is forced into prostitution.

In my made up example, coercion/blackmail is being utilized. "Have sex with me for the job, or I will ruin your career."

It isn't all that far fetched.

[bewbew]

I can't agree with that.

I've spent the last 7 years of my life developing my career. If I was put in a position like this tomorrow, I can't just up and change careers. I have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and myself to take care of. I can't just jump into a new career like that.

Now, i'm not saying people who give into sexual coercion to continue their careers should do so. But I don't think it is good to excuse those in power of coercing people into sex in order for the employee to keep their job.

So in short, you're saying you'd have sex if you had to do that to continue your 7 year career investment.

Good to know what your moral standards are.

[Kathandira]

So in short, you're saying you'd have sex if you had to do that to continue your 7 year career investment.

Good to know what your moral standards are.

No. I'd record the conversation and report it to the authorities, and the managers director.

Also, you may have missed the second part of my reply. It was actually important to fully understand my position on the situation. Please see below:

"Now, i'm not saying people who give into sexual coercion to continue their careers should do so. But I don't think it is good to excuse those in power of coercing people into sex in order for the employee to keep their job."

[Fluffernut]

So in short, you're saying you'd have sex if you had to do that to continue your 7 year career investment.

Good to know what your moral standards are.

Way to twist the meaning. This was in reply to someone stating that you should just leave your job if this was happening. Most of use can't just up and walk away from our jobs - this does not equate to acquiescing to the harassment.

[Jastall]

Nature still doesn't give a fuck.

Nature doesn't give a fuck about anything we do, so with this mindset why have laws at all? Just let civilization collapse and let us revert back to being cavemen and monkeys, you know, the natural way.

[Deleted]

Another example of this, and the reason why I now always ask one of my grad student to sit in my office whenever a female student come to meet with me:

Student: Can we go over my last exam, I think there is a mistake.
Me: I can correct it again and show you your mistakes.
Student: But I really want to get into med school.
Me: You should have studied then, it would not be fair to change your marks and not the others.
Student: How about sex?

And there it is. I am sure some people gladly accept the proposition. But the student at the time is ready/willing to do whatever to put herself in a better position. And then 20 years down the road, now that she has money, a job and whatnot, would click on the #metoo saying some disgusting creep took advantage of her.

I am not defending people like Weinstein who milked it for all its worth. He is on a whole other level of wrong. But I am pretty sure those actresses knew what they were getting into when meeting with him, and they were willing to do it to start their career, which probably would not have happened at all otherwise. If anything, it's sad for those who said no, and never got a break and are now working in a coffee shop.

Funny how this protective 'tactic' from professors you mentioned is in regards to sexual assaults here - I graduated quite a while ago, but professors were doing such things aswell, except it was to protect themselves from accusations of being bribed for letting students pass.

With all those so-called progressive laws and ideas, it ends up that honest people have to fear the most.

[bewbew]

No. I'd record the conversation and report it to the authorities, and the managers director.

Also, you may have missed the second part of my reply. It was actually important to fully understand my position on the situation. Please see below:

"Now, i'm not saying people who give into sexual coercion to continue their careers should do so. But I don't think it is good to excuse those in power of coercing people into sex in order for the employee to keep their job."

The problem is you are misreading the situation. It was something that was in the business from the get-go, not a "surprise down the line", to the point where it's common knowledge that actors, actresses, models and other "glamourous" careers involve trading sexual favors with people with influence. And as many people have pointed out, this is for both men and women, so no discrimination there.

Your answer also does not include the scenario where you can't report - you have only two choices. Do it, or quit. And quitting is still the correct choice, unless you value your integrity less than your financial status, as many people have strongly implied here.

- - - Updated - - -

Way to twist the meaning. This was in reply to someone stating that you should just leave your job if this was happening. Most of use can't just up and walk away from our jobs - this does not equate to acquiescing to the harassment.

Okay, so you'd rather suck stranger's dicks than starve or have to start your life over.

Glad I'm not dating any of you people.

[Fluffernut]

The problem is you are misreading the situation. It was something that was in the business from the get-go, not a "surprise down the line", to the point where it's common knowledge that actors, actresses, models and other "glamourous" careers involve trading sexual favors with people with influence. And as many people have pointed out, this is for both men and women, so no discrimination there.

Your answer also does not include the scenario where you can't report - you have only two choices. Do it, or quit. And quitting is still the correct choice, unless you value your integrity less than your financial status, as many people have strongly implied here.

- - - Updated - - -



Okay, so you'd rather suck stranger's dicks than starve or have to start your life over.

Glad I'm not dating any of you people.

Wow, I love your implied scenarios.

[Kathandira]

The problem is you are misreading the situation. It was something that was in the business from the get-go, not a "surprise down the line", to the point where it's common knowledge that actors, actresses, models and other "glamourous" careers involve trading sexual favors with people with influence. And as many people have pointed out, this is for both men and women, so no discrimination there.

Your answer also does not include the scenario where you can't report - you have only two choices. Do it, or quit. And quitting is still the correct choice, unless you value your integrity less than your financial status, as many people have strongly implied here.

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a recorded conversation where this has taken place. We are in the world where everyone has a recording device on them 24/7. If I were a woman, in today's world, I would absolutely be recording all of my conversations for my own safety knowing that this is rampant in the industry I was working in.

[bewbew]

Wow, I love your implied scenarios.

You can't have a moral dillema with a "Call the authorities and they solve everything" answer as an option.

[Independent voter]

Here's Courtney Love warning women about Weinstein. Love had a decent career in movies, after she spoke up she was banned.

That's not right.

And people are saying the reason Wienstein was finally fired is because he hadn't made a successful film in years. If he had they would've found some way to keep him.

[Deleted]

In my made up example, coercion/blackmail is being utilized. "Have sex with me for the job, or I will ruin your career."

Then your choice is "pick a different career". Because if it is possible for your career to be ruined, if you don't prostitute yourself, then the industry you're trying to work in is corrupt anyway. If I was in that position, I would immediately drop out and go public with this. Otherwise you're an enabler. Do you have no dignity or pride?

If you are an actor and something like this happens, then turn your back on Hollywood. If you really still wanna act because you love it, accept that you're only gonna be able to play in these big blockbusters if you become a whore, or choose to do your acting more like a hobby and play in small productions.

I doubt that the only way to become a well-known actor/actress is to sleep with people, though. That would mean all famous actors and actresses sucked someone's cock. So it's really about some people wanting it easier. Then it's just sex in exchange for favours. If you participate, your own fault.

[felrager]

It's just a reflection of our sexual dimorphism, girls are different from boys.

Boys are aggressive and would welcome sexual overtures. Men have a hard time understanding why women aren't flattered. Women aren't as aggressive and they don't welcome sexual overtures. It's been this way forever.

It's in the DNA.

Yes I'm speaking in generalities.

I'm a dude. When I was sexually assaulted as a kid I didn't want it. Stop being a dumb ass.

[Fluffernut]

You can't have a moral dillema with a "Call the authorities and they solve everything" answer as an option.

I don't believe I stated that I would call the authorities so they could solve everything. These scenarios are not black and white and there are always multiple ways to solve them - which do not have to degenerate into fellatio or quitting a job. And while being in a dilemma can be colloquialized as being in a pickle, I doubt that was what your spelling intended.

[Kathandira]

Then your choice is "pick a different career". Because if it is possible for your career to be ruined, if you don't prostitute yourself, then the industry you're trying to work in is corrupt anyway. If I was in that position, I would immediately drop out and go public with this. Otherwise you're an enabler. Do you have no dignity or pride?

If you are an actor and something like this happens, then turn your back on Hollywood. If you really still wanna act because you love it, accept that you're only gonna be able to play in these big blockbusters if you become a whore, or choose to do your acting more like a hobby and play in small productions.

Like I said before, I'm surprised with there being a recording device in everyone's pocket that there aren't actual voice recordings of this all over the place.

[Vato]

1. looking at
2. talking to
3. making a lewd remark
4. touching a hand
5. grouping a butt
6. grouping a breast
7. exposing yourself
8. ....
~. rape

So there is a spectrum of men showing interest, going from looks all the way to rape. It's really important to the conversation to know were are on the scale.

Harvey Weinstein talked to women and touched breasts so he's like a 6. Far as I know he never raped anyone.

At least three people claim he did.

[FlatBootyJudy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41633857


MORE IN LINK

Normally I scoff at these sort of trends as nothing more than online narcissism BUT I can actually get behind this... People are ignorant on not only how common it is but the shame so many men and women feel who are victims of sexual abuse/assault. Too many feel they can't tell their story out of fear of judgment

You know some people are also posting Me Too just for support, you also have people posting Me Too because they think "You look pretty in that dress" is sexual assault.

[bewbew]

I don't believe I stated that I would call the authorities so they could solve everything. These scenarios are not black and white and there are always multiple ways to solve them - which do not have to degenerate into fellatio or quitting a job. And while being in a dilemma can be colloquialized as being in a pickle, I doubt that was what your spelling intended.

I was talking about the other person's scenario and how he introduced the "Call the authorities" alternative.

And yeah, pretty sure things like "Sell your body to continue in your career?" are pretty black and white.

- - - Updated - - -

That'd be nice if the authorities actually did solve everything when it comes to sexual harassment. Problem is, they cannot. It is rare that you have access to an adequate level of evidence. Which is why industry standards and contracts are important; they foster an environment of transparency and make it less likely that people would risk harassing someone.

I think you misunderstood me. My point is exactly that calling the authorities is not an answer to the dillema of "Have sex to continue your career or lose all your career and dreams but retain your dignity".