Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #47641
    Deleted
    But have fun shooting each other, im off.

  2. #47642
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Well, now we get into the realm of what the 2nd Amendment is about. Who should be able to buy guns? What gun laws can we pass that will result in a decrease of deaths? Why dont we enforce harsher sentences when guns are used in crimes? etc...etc...

    It isnt that anyone is against it, it is how do you balance those laws without denying law abiding people their rights? Lets also be fair here, this shit only comes up when a dozen innocent people are killed at an event. Usually by guns legally purchased. Nobody says a word when its Pokey on a street corner slinging crack shooting someone that ripped him on a drug deal. The later results in more deaths then the former.
    No one cares about the black people killed daily in places like Chicago or the Hispanic population in places like California.. Their virtue signaling batman style signal only comes to life when a bunch of white people are killed in a group.

    However, I will give credit where credit is due. A brown person gets shot and they come out of the woodwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    That you can't complain about people being shot, because clearly that is how you want your society to be.
    I'm not?

    Gun murders account for like 0.0003% of our entire population.

    A majority of those are committed by criminals on other criminals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    But have fun shooting each other, im off.
    Well, bye.

  3. #47643
    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    How doesn't it make sense? If you have A in society and A causes B, then you look at B and see if it is good or bad, when B is bad you want to have as little A in society as you can.
    Because that is not the argument being made.

    I never heard anyone make a convincing statement on why there are so many more gun fatalities in the US compared to civilized western Europe countries where guns are banned completely.
    That is the flawed argument I am responding to. The reason why we have so many more gun fatalities in the US compared to "civilized western Europe countries where guns are banned completely" is because firearms are not banned in the US. Thats like saying why do Christians have more car accidents then the Amish in the US? Because Christians have more cars.

  4. #47644
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Those could be improved some. But it is not like we do not do those. They did the last time I bought one and my conceal carry permit, they did a good background check, took finger prints, etc. Was not instant. lol! And a one time safety course before you can purchase a firearm. Does not have to be a long one. You can teach a person proper safe use of a firearm in a hour or less. I think the Bump Stocks which allow a semi auto rifle to simulate auto fire, should not be legal.

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    Statistics pushed by the anti-gun rights crowd to make it appear more to fit their narrative by leaving out other factors. But of course you are more likely get injured by a firearm than if you did not have one. duh.

    I like having the option to use a firearm for self defense. Thankfully I live in a country which gives me not only that option, but can not deny me the right to.

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    That is not a simple fact. It is one which you take reported events and then base your statistics on that info. There are a lot of incidents where firearms are used in self defense situations which are never reported. The act of pulling a firearm in some cases can deter aggression.

    And here we go again, resorting to insulting people. So common when people do not have a good argument. I am thankful I do not need your permission to choose what self defense tools I want to use.

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    I do not support banning a weapon which looks scary.

    Well, you do have the option not to use one.

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    Dogs are awesome to have in your house to help sound the alarm and in some cases, criminals will simply avoid a house to break into if they know a dog is there. We have 2 dogs.
    Oh I agree a dog is better then nothing...But you do not want to just have a dog as a sole means of protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    Exactly, so harsher gun laws = less guns in circulation = less gun deaths.. not sure how anyone can be against that.
    And other forms of violent crime and murder go up. Fact
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  5. #47645
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Too soon?

    I think actually a cooling off period might be a good idea, to prevent people going out and getting a gun on a rash impulse and doing something stupid.
    Average time between initial purchase at retail and use in a crime is over 6 years. Waiting periods are pointless and have been done plenty of times and used in plenty of jurisdictions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Cars have a very different function in society. They are a means of transportation. Unfortunately car accidents happen.

    Guns, however, are designed to be used as weapons to kill people.

    There is a fundamental difference.
    I mean, it's been debated in here before, but assuming you skipped the other 2000 pages...

    The argument of car vs gun isn't about car vs gun, it's about public access to either. You're not saying the military or police shouldn't have access to guns, just that the public shouldn't. By the same logic, wouldn't the environment be better off if public access to vehicles was curtailed for more ride-sharing/ public transportation? Is it needed that everyone has access to a vehicle? Many other countries consider the USA car ownership rates odd also, but it is the norm here.

    You don't need a license to own a car, only to drive it on public roads. In most of the USA, you need a license to carry a gun, but not on your property... same as a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    None of those other things are designed and sold as means to kill other people.
    22lr is one of the most popular cartridges, not designed for killing (well, groundhogs and stuff I guess).
    Plenty of collectible guns, not designed for shooting or killing.
    Plenty of competition guns totally impractical for actual offensive/defensive uses.

    You even said people, thus ruling out all the hunting rifles/shotguns sold as existing...
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  6. #47646
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    If you are shooting at another person, regardless of him shooting at you first, you are still attacking that person.

    Kevlar chest is a defensive product, a gun isn't.

    Calling a gun a defensive product is just blatantly dishonest and wrong.
    Not according to our laws here and that's what I'll go by not your opinion.

  7. #47647
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Oh I agree a dog is better then nothing...But you do not want to just have a dog as a sole means of protection.

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    And other forms of violent crime and murder go up. Fact
    Maybe a little, but no way as much as gun accidents go down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Well, now we get into the realm of what the 2nd Amendment is about. Who should be able to buy guns? What gun laws can we pass that will result in a decrease of deaths? Why dont we enforce harsher sentences when guns are used in crimes? etc...etc...

    It isnt that anyone is against it, it is how do you balance those laws without denying law abiding people their rights? Lets also be fair here, this shit only comes up when a dozen innocent people are killed at an event. Usually by guns legally purchased. Nobody says a word when its Pokey on a street corner slinging crack shooting someone that ripped him on a drug deal. The later results in more deaths then the former.
    Yea but even things like that are really rare over here. When here a gun accident happens (even if it is a robbery gone wrong or something) it is big news. I have the impression it is daily business across the pond.

  8. #47648
    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    Maybe a little, but no way as much as gun accidents go down.

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    Yea but even things like that are really rare over here. When here a gun accident happens (even if it is a robbery gone wrong or something) it is big news. I have the impression it is daily business across the pond.
    Violent crimes such as rape, home invasions , assaults etc etc went up as much as 50% or more in areas where guns were banned. It is not a little , it is a lot
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  9. #47649
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Violent crimes such as rape, home invasions , assaults etc etc went up as much as 50% or more in areas where guns were banned. It is not a little , it is a lot
    And where is this? I live in a country where all guns are banned and we don't have a flood of home invasions rape or assaults...

    I just looked it up, I see the problem:

    Assault:
    https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/Crim...l-Rape/Assault

    Rape:
    https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/Crim...xual-Rape/Rape

  10. #47650
    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    Maybe a little, but no way as much as gun accidents go down.

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    Yea but even things like that are really rare over here. When here a gun accident happens (even if it is a robbery gone wrong or something) it is big news. I have the impression it is daily business across the pond.
    We are a nation of over 300 million, so in order to hit national news the death rate has to be high. Locally, the news reports on every death. It is huge news as well. It just depends on your area on how often it happens. In my area you more likely to be killed in a car accident then by a gun. There is one stretch of road in Philly known for its high rates of deaths caused by hit and runs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    And where is this? I live in a country where all guns are banned and we don't have a flood of home invasions rape or assaults...

    I just looked it up, I see the problem:

    Assault:
    https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/Crim...l-Rape/Assault

    Rape:
    https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/Crim...xual-Rape/Rape
    An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred each
    year on average from 2003 to 2007. In about 28% of these
    burglaries, a household member was present during the burglary.
    In 7% of all household burglaries, a household member
    experienced some form of violent victimization
    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

  11. #47651
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    We are a nation of over 300 million, so in order to hit national news the death rate has to be high. Locally, the news reports on every death. It is huge news as well. It just depends on your area on how often it happens. In my area you more likely to be killed in a car accident then by a gun. There is one stretch of road in Philly known for its high rates of deaths caused by hit and runs.

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    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

    Are you telling me 33% of the world population lives in the USA, or in case of rape, about half earth's population?

    Quote:
    The United States of America is the top country by assault in the world. As of 2014, assault in the United States of America was 731,089 number that accounts for 33.20 % of the world's assault.

    The United States of America is the top country by rape in the world. As of 2014, rape in the United States of America was 118,027 number that accounts for 49.06 % of the world's rape.

    Now I am pretty sure there are error margins on all statistics used but trends are trends.

  12. #47652
    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    Are you telling me 33% of the world population lives in the USA, or in case of rape, about half earth's population?

    Quote:
    The United States of America is the top country by assault in the world. As of 2014, assault in the United States of America was 731,089 number that accounts for 33.20 % of the world's assault.

    The United States of America is the top country by rape in the world. As of 2014, rape in the United States of America was 118,027 number that accounts for 49.06 % of the world's rape.

    Now I am pretty sure there are error margins on all statistics used but trends are trends.
    Do you question the number of assaults? I dont know what your point is.

  13. #47653
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Violent crimes such as rape, home invasions , assaults etc etc went up as much as 50% or more in areas where guns were banned. It is not a little , it is a lot
    It is almost like criminals figured out you can drive to the next area and buy guns there.

    But then that couldn't be the case because it would mean more gun control was needed and pathetic rednecks would feel emasculated, poor little babies.

  14. #47654
    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    It is almost like criminals figured out you can drive to the next area and buy guns there.

    But then that couldn't be the case because it would mean more gun control was needed and pathetic rednecks would feel emasculated, poor little babies.
    You should probably get those projections checked out, they might be contagious.

  15. #47655
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Do you question the number of assaults? I dont know what your point is.
    My point is that the US has easily the highest number of both Assaults and Rape in the world percent/population wise. My question is "why?". What is so different over there? I don't live in America. All I know is how it is portrayed to us. A country where a gun is less dangerous than a nipple on TV. All I know is the statistics I read such as the ones I posted above. The rest is just popular culture from TV/Movies that most likely shows a stylized America. I wonder what it really is like over there and why people so cling to guns while the rest of the civilized world works fine without them. Why the crime rates are so high compared to my country or other western European countries. What is the difference?
    Last edited by Planetdune; 2017-10-16 at 07:21 PM.

  16. #47656
    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    My point is that the US has easily the highest number of both Assaults and Rape in the world percent/population wise. My question is "why?". What is so different over there?
    I dont know, Your guess is as good as mine. We are a violent society. We are desensitized to violence. We have collapsing familial values. Selfish, egotistical, overly stressed etc.. etc..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    My point is that the US has easily the highest number of both Assaults and Rape in the world percent/population wise. My question is "why?". What is so different over there? I don't live in America. All I know is how it is portrayed to us. A country where a gun is less dangerous than a nipple on TV. All I know is the statistics I read such as the ones I posted above. The rest is just popular culture from TV/Movies that most likely shows a stylized America. I wonder what it really is like over there and why people so cling to guns while the rest of the civilized world works fine without them. Why the crime rates are so high compared to my country or other western European countries. What is the difference?
    What is portrayed is not what everyday life is like for the majority of Americans. There arent shootouts on every street corner. There arent rapes in every back alley. There arent assaults in every bar. What you see is what makes headlines. We have a large population which means we have a lot more instances of shitty people doing shitty things.

  17. #47657
    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    It is almost like criminals figured out you can drive to the next area and buy guns there.

    But then that couldn't be the case because it would mean more gun control was needed and pathetic rednecks would feel emasculated, poor little babies.
    They don't have to drive elsewhere, the straw purchasers will go unprosecuted as they run guns everywhere.

    I do like how the crime is in one place, but they need to go somewhere else to get the guns for that crime, rather than commit crimes near the guns. Let's not look at the reasons for the crimes in that place, lets focus on the guns elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    My point is that the US has easily the highest number of both Assaults and Rape in the world percent/population wise. My question is "why?". What is so different over there? I don't live in America. All I know is how it is portrayed to us. A country where a gun is less dangerous than a nipple on TV. All I know is the statistics I read such as the ones I posted above. The rest is just popular culture from TV/Movies that most likely shows a stylized America. I wonder what it really is like over there and why people so cling to guns while the rest of the civilized world works fine without them. Why the crime rates are so high compared to my country or other western European countries. What is the difference?
    Because of wealth inequality among inner city slums and meth-lab trailer parks, crime becomes a way of life and life is cheap. Drug routes run guns/drugs/ violence up from Mexico through the slums to repackage misery. It is not everywhere, but it's not like you can just move into poor areas and clean them out, people have rights. You don't see folks improving the areas, they just use government money to appease folks while stealing as much as possible.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  18. #47658
    Quote Originally Posted by Planetdune View Post
    My point is that the US has easily the highest number of both Assaults and Rape in the world percent/population wise. My question is "why?". What is so different over there? I don't live in America. All I know is how it is portrayed to us. A country where a gun is less dangerous than a nipple on TV. All I know is the statistics I read such as the ones I posted above. The rest is just popular culture from TV/Movies that most likely shows a stylized America. I wonder what it really is like over there and why people so cling to guns while the rest of the civilized world works fine without them. Why the crime rates are so high compared to my country or other western European countries. What is the difference?
    We have one of the worlds largest police forces and enough attorneys to feed the planet. Every shove and push is going to get elevated to "assault" by someone. Every incident gets called in, every incident gets a police response, every incident has attorneys passing out business cards. The statistics make the place look like a war zone, but reading through the local police blotter shows it's almost all penny ante nuisance stuff that was hardly worth writing down.

    There's also big money to be made in civil forfeiture and running prisons, so there's a motive for law enforcement to go looking for easy stuff. Why walk a beat when you can shake someone down for a joint and take his car? Our crime rate would probably drop by half if there wasn't so much profit in making it go up.

  19. #47659
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Because of wealth inequality among inner city slums and meth-lab trailer parks, crime becomes a way of life and life is cheap. Drug routes run guns/drugs/ violence up from Mexico through the slums to repackage misery. It is not everywhere, but it's not like you can just move into poor areas and clean them out, people have rights. You don't see folks improving the areas, they just use government money to appease folks while stealing as much as possible.
    Go to any public housing building or area and you see the same thing, squalor. It isnt because money wasnt put into the buildings. It is because the residents dont value the housing units, because they are not invested in them. They havent placed any money from their own pockets to paint, and fix broken doors so it isnt valued.

    Go to most areas in the inner cities and try to conduct a murder investigation. Nobody sees anything, the phrase "Snitches Get Stitches" exists for a reason. You cant help people who dont want to be helped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Man View Post
    We have one of the worlds largest police forces and enough attorneys to feed the planet. Every shove and push is going to get elevated to "assault" by someone. Every incident gets called in, every incident gets a police response, every incident has attorneys passing out business cards. The statistics make the place look like a war zone, but reading through the local police blotter shows it's almost all penny ante nuisance stuff that was hardly worth writing down.

    There's also big money to be made in civil forfeiture and running prisons, so there's a motive for law enforcement to go looking for easy stuff. Why walk a beat when you can shake someone down for a joint and take his car? Our crime rate would probably drop by half if there wasn't so much profit in making it go up.
    There is some truth to that.

  20. #47660
    My favorite philosopher Michael Huemer, made some arguments that I've never heard before from a debate on gun control last month.

    He speaks at 56:09.


    His argument summarized quickly goes something like this:
    l. A survey of data on private gun ownership shows it does not have a clear net positive or net negative effect on things like crime
    ll. Laws should only be passed if they have a clear net positive effect
    lll. Rights should not be violated unless doing so has an overwhelmingly positive effect
    lV: Therefore, gun control violates a right without having justification for doing so
    Last edited by Deletedaccount1; 2017-10-16 at 09:12 PM.

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