How 'MeToo' is exposing the scale of sexual abuse

[Wolfman31]

I'm glad to see that some male celebrities have come forward as being victims of sexual abuse in Hollywood as well. This shouldnt be another feminist war on masculinity because men are victims of it too and many will not speak up about it because it is traditionally a sign of weakness for men to admit when gay guys assaulted and harassed them. This isn't exclusively a gender issue. This is a mental health issue and how people in positions of power lose themselves to sociopathic tendencies.

[Kathandira]

I'm glad to see that some male celebrities have come forward as being victims of sexual abuse in Hollywood as well. This shouldnt be another feminist war on masculinity because men are victims of it too and many will not speak up about it because it is traditionally a sign of weakness for men to admit when gay guys assaulted and harassed them. This isn't exclusively a gender issue. This is a mental health issue and how people in positions of power lose themselves to sociopathic tendencies.

I have 1/2 as many men as women posting Me Too sincerely on my FB feed. I'm not saying that to say that men don't have this issue, but quite the opposite. It is actually startling how many men I know who have been in this situation as well.

[Mistame]

Makes sense.

Though this brings something to mind that happens with young women. A young woman (we'll say she is not physically active) is alone with a jock who is pushing up on her for sex. I have heard from women who have been in this situation who were afraid to say no because he was bigger than them, and intimidating. Even if they are sheepish about it, not really jumping at the chance to have sex, they will allow it to happen out of fear of being physically forced into it.

How is that categorized? I personally know a couple women who were in this situation when they were really young.

You really can't say, "She felt threatened, thus was threatened", without opening a big can of subjective worms. If it were a recent occurrence, one could argue that, unless she explicitly consented, she may have been assaulted. Otherwise, her lack of resistance may work against her. And you simply can't apply modern standards to something that happened decades ago and expect to be taken seriously. In any regard, there was no coercion.

[Fluffernut]

I have 1/2 as many men as women posting Me Too sincerely on my FB feed. I'm not saying that to say that men don't have this issue, but quite the opposite. It is actually startling how many men I know who have been in this situation as well.

I was talking with my husband about this last night at dinner. I turns out he has been harassed multiple times and never said anything out either fear of losing his job or being ridiculed due to his being a man.

[Kathandira]

You really can't say, "She felt threatened, thus was threatened", without opening a big can of subjective worms. If it were a recent occurrence, one could argue that, unless she explicitly consented, she may have been assaulted. Otherwise, her lack of resistance may work against her. And you simply can't apply modern standards to something that happened decades ago and expect to be taken seriously. In any regard, there was coercion.

I feel the same, as in, I can't really say either. It is hard to pinpoint when there was no verbal denial of consent. Just being submissive to get it over with is hard to pin a term on.

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I was talking with my husband about this last night at dinner. I turns out he has been harassed multiple times and never said anything out either fear of losing his job or being ridiculed due to his being a man.

If the topic comes up again, I assure you, he is far from alone. If him hearing that helps him at all, it might be worth telling him.

I know not everyone rolls with the "alternative" crowd, but if he saw how many men are posting on FB he might feel a little comfort knowing he wasn't alone.

[Mistame]

I have 1/2 as many men as women posting Me Too sincerely on my FB feed. I'm not saying that to say that men don't have this issue, but quite the opposite. It is actually startling how many men I know who have been in this situation as well.

As I said earlier, with as loosely as "sexual assault/abuse/harassment/etc" is being used, everyone should just use it and call it day. Hell, I have a kid (guy) a work who likes to joke around by doing shit like asking the guys for hugs, trying to hold their hands, etc. I finally told him if he didn't knock it off, I was going mushroom stamp his forehead. He stopped. I didn't feel the need to post on Facebook about it, though.

I feel the same, as in, I can't really say either. It is hard to pinpoint when there was no verbal denial of consent. Just being submissive to get it over with is hard to pin a term on.

I had to fix my post. Was supposed to say there was no coercion.

[Kathandira]

I had to fix my post. Was supposed to say there was no coercion.

You set me up with your typo!!! lol j/k

[Wiyld]

Don't accuse me of victim blaming here ....buuut....


ya gotta wonder if this isn't a bit of a vicious cycle.

Sleazy guy uses his position to offer a hottie a better job if she blows him. She accepts cuz lets face it, today there is a fairly high probability that at some point shes blown a few guys in the past...maybe she even blew a relative stranger she just met on tinder or craigslist or any number of other places people go to do just that very thing. So casual blowjobs aren't THAT terribly unheard of...call it normalized if you will.

So she does it, because in the grand scheme of things its actually a pretty easy way to get the job. How many people here would suck a dick for a million dollars...or however many million she gets paid to be in some big movie, plus the exposure to get into future movies.

Sleazy guy gives her the job because, again lets face it, there are a LOT of talented young hotties trying desperately to get into the industry, it isn't as if the market is limited on the position of 'hot young actress'. If she didn't take the deal the next one probably would have and he could really pick any of them and do just fine. But this one took the deal so he went ahead and gave her the job, there are other people working for the film who can make sure she looks good in the film, regardless of her actual talent.

The next time sleazy guy has to cast a young hot actress what are the odds hes going to do the same thing?? Pretty damn good I would imagine. Every time one of these women agreed to do it..the higher the probability became of the guy doing it again. Years and years of that and you get a guy like Weinstein who will pretty much whip his dick out at anyone he wants to because it ALWAYS works.

I mean look at Trump and his famous 'grab em by the pussy' comment. They spend years and years and years getting away with it. i.e. women go along with it and they simply pull from experience. The average guy would hear 'I can literally go up to any gorgeous woman I want and fuck her' and think 'lol what, that doesn't work, thats just stupid and guaranteed to get you in trouble'. These guys hear that and go 'well I mean..pretty much yeah' and it is all based on years of positive feedback.

Ultimately it happens in this particular industry because of a couple factors. A very high concentration of very attractive people. A very high supply of very desperate people and a very low supply of available jobs. The industry is very small, you couldn't get away with this for say .....mid level business management jobs because there are a billion of them out there and companies actually have to compete slightly for their employees. Once word got out that a place was being sleazy like this no one would go there. Lastly this industry offers a high potential to go form rags to riches. There are few other palces where a person can go from nothing to stardom in like 1 job.

[Mistame]

You set me up with your typo!!! lol j/k

At least I told you of the correction so you could be outraged.

[Toogoodman]

Someone talked to me once. #MeToo

Seriously most of this shit is probably bandwagon hopping.

I have to agree, "campaigns" like these really piss me off, because i usually see the same suspects on my social media feeds saying "metoo" when I know for a fact, they've had absolutely nothing done to them. I know plenty of people who have actually been assaulted and its absolutely insulting to them when the people who are in serious need of attention come out of the woodwork and want to trend. These are also the same people who usually put a picture of a flag as their profile picture to "stand in unity" while they go sleep with someones husband.

A ton of people are predatory pieces of shit, and i would say about 100x more are attention seeking propaganda whores. If someone stalks, harasses, assaults someone in a sexual way, they are beyond disgusting, same goes for people who falsify these reports to destroy peoples lives, two way street full of scum.

[Fluffernut]

As I said earlier, with as loosely as "sexual assault/abuse/harassment/etc" is being used, everyone should just use it and call it day. Hell, I have a kid (guy) a work who likes to joke around by doing shit like asking the guys for hugs, trying to hold their hands, etc. I finally told him if he didn't knock it off, I was going mushroom stamp his forehead. He stopped. I didn't feel the need to post on Facebook about it, though.

That's the thing though - the definitions give quite a bit of subjectivity. Just because the actions did not bother you, does not mean that they would not bother someone else. By the same token, something that would bother you - may not bother another. It is a fallacy to ascribe your feelings and reactions to everyone.

[Wiyld]

That's the thing though - the definitions give quite a bit of subjectivity. Just because the actions did not bother you, does not mean that they would not bother someone else. By the same token, something that would bother you - may not bother another. It is a fallacy to ascribe your feelings and reactions to everyone.

By the same token, it is impossible to know what will set every person off. IF the scale of behavior is infinite in each direction, who knows what is or is not acceptable?

There just needs to be some degree of flexibility from both parties. You cannot say that any claim of sexual harassment, by any definition, is legitimate. Just as you cannot say that every claim of 'oh I was just trying to be funny' or whatever excuse people make for bein pervy is acceptable either.


He didn't say they didn't bother him, in fact it DID bother him. Instead of making a huge issue of it..he just told em to cut it out and ended it.

This isn't even a problem of sexual harassment... it is an issue of conflict resolution. You have a problem...you resolve it...you move on...you don't need 10 years of therapy afterwards.

[Seidhe]

I think in next years we will see some shit like #Metoo but about physical harassments in schools, or fat-shaming in yong age. And list of bad things can come long.
yo! Its part of life. There are always not good guys and girls, and you know they make bad things to others.
For me this thread has same meaning as *fire is hot and it hurts*. Yes there are victims, and there are bad guys,
BUT MAYBE U CAN DO BETTER AND START TALKING ABOUT ACTUAL PROBLEMS? Spend money, time, attention etc on Real problems like wars, food-shortage in some regions and so on. Hell even migrants problem discussion has MUCH more meaning then this shit. Its truly first world problem eh? Some people got harrased and some of them raped (no matter man or woman) when thousands and millions dies. But yeah i got nasty house, car, food etc, but someone on work/street/... told me some shit about myself, so i feel i need to jump to FB and unite with so-called VICTIMS of others BEHAVIOUR (NOT WAR NOT HUNGER NOT DESEASE).

Open ur fuking eyes to realproblems of the world, not this shit.

[Toogoodman]

Way to twist the meaning. This was in reply to someone stating that you should just leave your job if this was happening. Most of use can't just up and walk away from our jobs - this does not equate to acquiescing to the harassment.

I heard this argument last night, and I think its very true. If you're in a power position, e.i. a manager, a producer, a supervisor, or even guy who grants more hours to employees, and you try to date or sleep with someone below you for "returning a favor" you should have to register as a sex offender, because that's actual sexually predatory behavior. The only time i could ever maybe seeing it being okay is if both parties are 100% consensual in the behavior, but i'm a stickler for not shitting where you eat, and hate relationships that take place in the work space.

[Najnaj]

It's just a reflection of our sexual dimorphism, girls are different from boys.

Boys are aggressive and would welcome sexual overtures. Men have a hard time understanding why women aren't flattered. Women aren't as aggressive and they don't welcome sexual overtures. It's been this way forever.

It's in the DNA.

Yes I'm speaking in generalities.

Very few men "have a hard time understanding why women aren't flattered" when you invite them up to a hotel room under the pretext of work and then try to pressure them into having sex. Very, VERY few men!

[Mistame]

That's the thing though - the definitions give quite a bit of subjectivity. Just because the actions did not bother you, does not mean that they would not bother someone else. By the same token, something that would bother you - may not bother another. It is a fallacy to ascribe your feelings and reactions to everyone.

I was merely pointing out that the degree of subjectivity undermines the point. The milder cases do a disservice to the serious cases. Being crotch-grabbed in alley is serious. An accidental boob brush on a subway is not. But if the latter is included in the "movement", why should anyone care? A word or phrase is only as powerful as its weakest connotation.

This isn't even a problem of sexual harassment... it is an issue of conflict resolution. You have a problem...you resolve it...you move on...you don't need 10 years of therapy afterwards.

Or bring it up 20-30 years later on social media as a means to feel relevant.

[Fluffernut]

By the same token, it is impossible to know what will set every person off. IF the scale of behavior is infinite in each direction, who knows what is or is not acceptable?

There just needs to be some degree of flexibility from both parties. You cannot say that any claim of sexual harassment, by any definition, is legitimate. Just as you cannot say that every claim of 'oh I was just trying to be funny' or whatever excuse people make for bein pervy is acceptable either.


He didn't say they didn't bother him, in fact it DID bother him. Instead of making a huge issue of it..he just told em to cut it out and ended it.

This isn't even a problem of sexual harassment... it is an issue of conflict resolution. You have a problem...you resolve it...you move on...you don't need 10 years of therapy afterwards.

I can agree with this. I simply based my comment on the legalese of the terms - they have a lot of wiggle room for subjectivity.

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I was merely pointing out that the degree of subjectivity undermines the point. The milder cases do a disservice to the serious cases. Being crotch-grabbed in alley is serious. An accidental boob brush on a subway is not. But if the latter is included in the "movement", why should anyone care? A word or phrase is only as powerful as its weakest connotation.

This is true. Well said.

[Toogoodman]

That's the thing though - the definitions give quite a bit of subjectivity. Just because the actions did not bother you, does not mean that they would not bother someone else. By the same token, something that would bother you - may not bother another. It is a fallacy to ascribe your feelings and reactions to everyone.

If you go the extremes in trying to please every single persons personal feelings on this, people wouldn't be allowed to interact with each other at all, because literally everything could be construed as uncomfortable for someone. This is why we have defined limits of what is and what isn't acceptable, because there is a certain limit you are allowed to go to in a free and civil society.

[Magistrate]

One thing I find a bit disgusting is it was considered an "open secret" in Hollywood. So many people knew it was going on for so long. Really just goes to show some people prioritised Money and Career over stopping other people from also getting abused.

Kind of hypocritical for a bunch of people that have been complaining since last year about people not caring about other people in their Country

As someone who generally leans toward liberal ideas, this also occurred to me. It's not surprising, either. That's always how Hollywood has been. Many actors come from darker or less glamorous pasts and have the desire to be voices for the disenfranchised, but also due to the quick upward trajectory of stardom rarely seem to develop the moral compass to not perpetuate many of the same sins.

Regardless, my very, very ultra-conservative mom was a victim of sexual abuse from an uncle as a child. It got completely hushed up, local police were never made aware of it, family suppressed it for perceived well-being of the family and based on some really misconstrued old time family values from their local church. She only recently told me about it and she just hit 50. It explained a lot of trust and self-worth issues I've noticed in her over the years and was one of the most heartbreaking stories I ever had to listen to.

One of my best friends parents, her mom, who came from a family from the complete opposite side of the values/political spectrum, was gang raped when she was in her early twenties, and that also really shaped her concept of fear and values. Her daughter (my friend) likewise went through something similar which she still can't talk about. These kinds of things are stories that affect children subliminally, as well. They don't just affect the women--they also affect many other people. Kids, future love interests, friends, family. This isn't just a tragedy of one person, although that should be enough.

I guess I say this to say, this isn't a partisan issue and I hope it doesn't get further shaded that way. Bad people are bad people and we need to deal with them to stop this cycle of evil from continuing.

[Wiyld]

I forsee Conflict resolution training being a huge deal in the future. Learn to be assertive without burning bridges. Learn to stand your ground without ruining relationships. Learn to accept criticism and correct your behavior and move on without any hard feelings.