Time to increase gap in raid loot?

[Guyv3r]

I'd be a lot happier if they would just create decently itemized loot instead of the shit we get every raid so far.

[potatojenkins]

at least we can agree upon TF/WF being removed, I'm perfectly fine with current state if TF/WF were to be removed.

do you think the majority of players will be doing heroic if mythic is removed?and do you think the changes you propose will make people do normal? HAHA

people currently do LFR cause there is next to none mechanics in LFR, NM will always have mechanics that can actually kill you

heroic raider like you will be the next target, why these items with 8 ilvl higher are not available to the people only doing LFR? THEY ARE THE ONLY ONE PAYING

casuals arguing the gap should not exist, isn't it what this whole thread is about?

I'd argue that most people do LFR because you can queue for it, and the level of communication required is essentially up to how much you're willing to give.

LFR only has to exist because the community doesn't work for anyone in the game except guilded players/the hardcore (and it's always been that way). If they had figured out a way to incentivize playing with strangers and new people (other games actually do do this now), LFR would never of even had to be made.

[Aggrophobic]

I have done LFR every week since Legion was released on my mythic raiding main and have never ever equipped a single piece of loot that has dropped in LFR.

Good for you, I have a 950 HC ring and a 945 normal belt and I ran with a few LFR pieces for quite a while.
Tourist mode should not drop items that are better or even close to as good as mythic. It's simply stupid.

[Gaidax]

I think it's fine, it's actually nice on occasional heroic clear to see some interesting item drop as opposed for it to be total shit.

I think the chances for Titanforging are low enough and gap is good enough too to not make the mythic raid level LFR drops to really be a thing. There is always that freak occurrence, but it mostly puts a smile on my face and a good thing to link in guild chat for lols rather than inducing some sort of mythic raider rage for me.

Heck it can sometimes give some very unique combo or thing that is fun to have like my 2 ilvl 920 T19 pieces I use for 2-set which were super lucky drop back in Nighthold. Does it make me break world records? Not really, but it is a great alternative to the usual thing everyone does and it's cool to have a bit unique setup.

In short, it is just not a factor really because one needs to be super lucky to even start making it a thing (I am looking here at multiple mythic quality plus items from lower difficulty that actually are an upgrade) and even if that happens, it's not going to be breaking the game or something, so basically a chance to create a real issue is non-existent, while benefit from getting occasional surprise is nice for everyone (unless you are one of those guys who feel physical pain the moment someone else got something you want).

[Zan15]

can you not read? 3-5 high 14+ per day does not require 10 hours.

i can read just fine.
the amount of time required to do what they did far exceeds mythic raiding schedules.




Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 539
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 433
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 121



Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 502
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 482
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 387
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 109


Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 538
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 430
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 120

- - - Updated - - -

Good for you, I have a 950 HC ring and a 945 normal belt and I ran with a few LFR pieces for quite a while.
Tourist mode should not drop items that are better or even close to as good as mythic. It's simply stupid.

the impact to other people is nil.
do you really care that much that some casual or 4/9 heroic raider get a 950 item?

is it really 90% frustration/jealousy and 10% problem with game?

[Aaronioslo]

i can read just fine.
the amount of time required to do what they did far exceeds mythic raiding schedules.




Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 539
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 433
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 121



Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 502
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 482
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 387
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 109


Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 538
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 430
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 120

- - - Updated - - -



the impact to other people is nil.
do you really care that much that some casual or 4/9 heroic raider get a 950 item?

is it really 90% frustration/jealousy and 10% problem with game?

that's from the beginning of legion, and you clearly are not so good with numbers as well. even the guy who provided links and own the account said its about the same, not FAR EXCEED

[Usagi Senshi]

Good for you, I have a 950 HC ring and a 945 normal belt and I ran with a few LFR pieces for quite a while.
Tourist mode should not drop items that are better or even close to as good as mythic. It's simply stupid.

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" - You this entire thread


Get the fuck over it and move on for fucks sake, man.

[rayden54]

Mythic is suppose to be about the challenge and attempting to overcome it. People need to get off their ideas of "I need high ilvl gear because I do this, get away from me you little ants" type ideas.

If you want gear to be awarded at a higher ilvl then be prepared for the encounters to be scaled to match it. Meaning the content would be even harder then you would be complaining about the challenge.

Ironically, the people who actually do need high ilvl gear to do something (as in the people who need gear to make up for a gap in skill) are the least likely to have it. Meanwhile, the people with the best gear are the least likely to actually need it. Just one of the problems with treating the primary tool as a reward.

[Deleted]

I wonder if the same people crying for TF drops also whine when they see people winning the lottery or anything based on pure luck, it's the same logic.

Seriously, some of you need to grow up. I can understand top 4-5 world guilds hating TF since if you're really lucky you can get a little itemlevel advantage that might actually help for the race of world first, but everyone else? It doesnt matter at all. Seriously, relax and stop whining about everything. I'm 8/9 mythic I dont remember ever seeing anything dropping in LFR that is better than what I use, and Ive been doing all lfr on 3 alts since the start of legion. Sometimes people are lucky in HC, yes, so what? Only crybabies would complain because someone gets a 940 or higher in hc. It doesnt penalize you, so why complain? Because youì're jealouse that you didnt drop it yourself? Geeez, that's what I can expect from a 9yo kid, anyone older than that should be worried, I dont want to know what you'll do in rl once you realize people will piss on you and get better jobs/money/cars than you just because they know the right people or have money, i guess you gonna shoot them if you whine so much about TF.

When you think about TF you need to realize you have low chances to get a loot off a boss, even lower chances to get the right loot in the table, and then much much lower to proc it high enough... most people dont understand it because we ignore 99 drops out of 100 that dont matter at all for us, yet we focus on that 1% (its actually smaller for high tf) drop that we can actually use. But TF is fine the way it is, it gives the people a chance (even if a very very small one) to get a good loot every time they drop something.

[Aggrophobic]

i can read just fine.
the amount of time required to do what they did far exceeds mythic raiding schedules.




Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 539
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 433
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 121



Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 502
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 482
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 387
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 109


Amount of Mythic 2+ Dungeons completed in time: 557
Amount of Mythic 5+ Dungeons completed in time: 538
Amount of Mythic 10+ Dungeons completed in time: 430
Amount of Mythic 15+ Dungeons completed in time: 120

- - - Updated - - -



the impact to other people is nil.
do you really care that much that some casual or 4/9 heroic raider get a 950 item?

is it really 90% frustration/jealousy and 10% problem with game?

No, it's 100% over the current desigers being incompetent as heck.

- - - Updated - - -

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" - You this entire thread


Get the fuck over it and move on for fucks sake, man.

No, you got that wrong. What was you in this one post.
Grow up and get over it.

[cparle87]

Oh but you see LFR can titanforge to the same level as mythic gear. Guess you missed that part.

The point she's trying to make is that the odds of a piece titanforging from LFR level up to cap is about the same as being attacked by a shark and hit by a meteor in the same week. Whereas for mythic raiders the gear doesn't have to titanforge nearly as far to reach cap. We've all had at least one piece titanforge +30. That's all mythic raiders need to cap. Can LFR guys get capped stuff? Yes. Does it happen anywhere near as often as you and others who think like you do believe it does? No.

[Deleted]

Give me one reason why titanforging shouldnt be capped at 15.
Casual players will still be happy about such a procc and more hardcoreplayers will not be baited into doing more and more content for possibly upgrades.

[cparle87]

Give me one reason why titanforging shouldnt be capped at 15.
Casual players will still be happy about such a procc and more hardcoreplayers will not be baited into doing more and more content for possibly upgrades.

Lucretia gave some pretty good reasons. If titanforging capped then eventually you'd hit a point where things like world quests and regular mythics couldn't possibly give you an upgrade, and they essentially become dead content. Blizz would rather dangle a carrot in front of your nose saying this thing could conceivably give you something good, then not do it like this and get repeats of WoD's "there's no content that gives worthwhile" rewards. They knew no matter what they did someone was going to complain. They'd just rather have it be the hardcore guys like you than the casual masses with nothing to do.

[Deleted]

Lucretia gave some pretty good reasons. If titanforging capped then eventually you'd hit a point where things like world quests and regular mythics couldn't possibly give you an upgrade, and they essentially become dead content. Blizz would rather dangle a carrot in front of your nose saying this thing could conceivably give you something good, then not do it like this and get repeats of WoD's "there's no content that gives worthwhile" rewards. They knew no matter what they did someone was going to complain. They'd just rather have it be the hardcore guys like you than the casual masses with nothing to do.

So you mean like always?
Reaching a certain level of gear is a good motivation to try new things and everything besides mythic doesnt really take a lot of time at all to start with.
Your argument of "casuals wont have anymore possible upgrades" is pretty much "they dont give me possible good stuff for doing nothing ;(".
Want people to get worse and worse? Keep titanforging and keep handing out stuff for zero effort.

[Deleted]

Good for you, I have a 950 HC ring and a 945 normal belt and I ran with a few LFR pieces for quite a while.
Tourist mode should not drop items that are better or even close to as good as mythic. It's simply stupid.

But it doesn't disincentivize people from doing mythic, since that's where a vast majority of well geared players get the bulk of their good gear.

[Ghazan Julio]

Honestly, raiding Mythic isn't suppose to be about "getting uber gears". Mythic is suppose to be about the challenge and attempting to overcome it. People need to get off their ideas of "I need high ilvl gear because I do this, get away from me you little ants" type ideas.

If you want gear to be awarded at a higher ilvl then be prepared for the encounters to be scaled to match it. Meaning the content would be even harder then you would be complaining about the challenge.



The reason is because Titanforging is actually good for the game the way it is. You should be able to do any piece of content and have the chance of being rewarded with something higher. It gives you incentives to do other parts of the content rather than one area. If you know it's going to cap out at X lvl then you'll get to a point where you aren't wanting to do it because it gives you nothing. Titanforging helps give parts of the game an incentive to still be active. If World Quests has a cap then after you are X ilvl you wouldn't even consider doing them. That in turns starts to make WQ useless and then that part of the content is gone. This continue to applies to other areas of the game.

Isn't supposed* is where I would have stopped typing at. Your conjecture and arbitrary assumptions do not hold up at all. Evidence for this can be seen from what people call loot whores to people who just pay to be carried through something. This game is about farming gear for raiders. The bosses should be enjoyable. The reward should worth the enormous amount of time you have to put into it.

- - - Updated - - -

be worth* asdasdas

[Raelbo]

No it does not work fine, the majority just doesn't understand the issue.

And yet they all substantiate their arguments with warrants and backing. The best you seem to be able to come up with is rubbish like this:

"The current system gives you the same loot in LFR as you get in mythic, of course it's stupid"

What a joke of statement. Firstly you start with a false claim - you haven't even got your fact right - and then you simply infer a conclusion that does not follow. Even if your "fact" was true, you're still required to explain why "it's stupid".

Sorry mate, but you need to learn how to construct an actual argument.

That means starting with a set of (accurate) facts and then explaining how those facts lead to a conclusion whilst considering the obvious flaws in your own argument. If you can't (and it seems you me, thread in and thread out, that you can't) then you have no right to act all high and mighty as if you're the only genius on these forums and everyone else is just a dolt.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh but you see LFR can titanforge to the same level as mythic gear. Guess you missed that part.

So what? Irrelevant and pointless fact that does not support your argument...at all. Just because it can doesn't mean it will do so enough to make it a problem. And the evidence that is plain for anyone to see is that it doesn't. How about looking at the armory pages of 100 random mythic raiders and see how much of their gear comes from LFR. If it's even as much as 1% I'd be highly surprised.

PS: to verify my assertion I went and looked at the armory pages of some Method raiders. Guess what! About 90% of their gear was from mythic. The remaining 10% was from Heroic. I didn't see a single Normal mode piece, let alone any LFR gear.

[Deleted]

Capping titanforge just doesn't fix splitfarming. You still would splitfarm as long as you get upgrades out of the lower difficulty.

To get a signficant change in the weeks you have to splitfarm, you'd have to cap titanforging at +5 (or maybe +10), at which point you could just as well remove it alltogether.

That is just not accurate. You need to cap it at +15, which is plenty to be exciting if it is actually the content you are doing. Because if you have an item from M, you will never replace it with an H one. That is pretty much the only thing that would be needed. My main at the time of this writing wears 2 tier pieces that are Heroic TF (and 2 pieces from H WF, none of which are from bosses I haven't killed on mythic yet). One of them (gloves) replaced mythic set gloves. I just don't think it is a good feeling to replace an item from a higher difficulty with a lucky roll from a lower one.

I think you talk about the first week of splitting. That is an issue, but not one that has anything to do with titanforging. With TF, it became worthwhile to keep splitting for pretty much the entirety of progress, if your guilds raid hours can sustain that, and that to me is an issue that should be addressed.

I get that titanforging is exciting, but why does it need to be uncapped to be that way? Isn't getting an item one tier up from what you are currently progressing awesome?

[Aggrophobic]

And yet they all substantiate their arguments with warrants and backing. The best you seem to be able to come up with is rubbish like this:

"The current system gives you the same loot in LFR as you get in mythic, of course it's stupid"

What a joke of statement. Firstly you start with a false claim - you haven't even got your fact right - and then you simply infer a conclusion that does not follow. Even if your "fact" was true, you're still required to explain why "it's stupid".

Sorry mate, but you need to learn how to construct an actual argument.

That means starting with a set of (accurate) facts and then explaining how those facts lead to a conclusion whilst considering the obvious flaws in your own argument. If you can't (and it seems you me, thread in and thread out, that you can't) then you have no right to act all high and mighty as if you're the only genius on these forums and everyone else is just a dolt.

- - - Updated - - -



So what? Irrelevant and pointless fact that does not support your argument...at all. Just because it can doesn't mean it will do so enough to make it a problem. And the evidence that is plain for anyone to see is that it doesn't. How about looking at the armory pages of 100 random mythic raiders and see how much of their gear comes from LFR. If it's even as much as 1% I'd be highly surprised.

PS: to verify my assertion I went and looked at the armory pages of some Method raiders. Guess what! About 90% of their gear was from mythic. The remaining 10% was from Heroic. I didn't see a single Normal mode piece, let alone any LFR gear.

What the heck are you talking about? Mythic and LFR can both drop 955. That just the way the system works. Nothing wrong with the argument at all.
Stop being silly and come up with a fix for the problem instead.

- - - Updated - - -

But it doesn't disincentivize people from doing mythic, since that's where a vast majority of well geared players get the bulk of their good gear.

Suyre but it should be the only source of good gear.
Luck should not let you get the same gear in LFR.

[Zan15]

Give me one reason why titanforging shouldnt be capped at 15.
Casual players will still be happy about such a procc and more hardcoreplayers will not be baited into doing more and more content for possibly upgrades.

because their game play does not impact your game play.