[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Katchii]

You know me and what I like in games (action, depth, challenge, etc.). and this system hooked me. I literally couldn't put it down trying to unlock new stuff and make my party stronger to fight more powerful monsters.

Rather than try and convince you etc. just do me a solid and read this review (this is a site I frequent for RPG news info): http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/manakhemia/index.html

Regarding the time bit, yeah trust me I feel you. I loved Persona 5, but the 100 hour journey was rough on me. Really rough. I basically didn't play any MMO/games during those 2 months and played the game non-stop. Persona is another one of those games (like Mana Khemia) where the more you invest in the side stuff, the more exciting the main bit is (story/combat).

Also now that I can add you to f list I have to shoot you one! we can queue up for Rabanastre or something!

The review does a good job of describing what makes the game great, and the game does sound pretty amazing. As stated before though, I just don't want to dedicate THAT much time to stuff that doesn't directly relate to and involve fighting or story. I loved Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea back in the day and their in depth character development and stuff, but just don't want to spend that much time simply developing a character without directly progressing the story. Reminds me a lot of the FFX Sphere Grid system(and later titles really all had a similar feature) where a lot of time was dedicated to micro managing or grinding to get the points needed to get the next skill on the grid or create a specific build so you could more easily progress through the story. Even in Witcher 3, while I thoroughly enjoyed the game, felt that the early parts of the game where you were still relatively weak required a pretty significant amount of time gathering and crafting potions and just preparing for the next battle rather than actually fighting or progressing the story.

So while Mana Khemia sounds like a great game, it's just not my type of game anymore.

I was going to look you up and shoot you a friend request the other day and forgot your character name and forgot to check Discord. I'd definitely be up for grouping with you for anything. I'm working on getting my WHM up now (66 currently), and have all tanks and RDM at 70 already so we can queue up for whatever.

[Kazgrel]

Precisely.
Call me Diablo damaged, but I really enjoyed DIII in that respect.
Heaps of freedom, just pick a cool skill and move on, you can change at any time anyway if it doesn't work for you / a situation.

Unfortunately with D3, that sort of freedom only works for so long; pushing the difficult content requires obtaining specific items and running specific skill set ups, which are mostly dictated by the gear you have (with sets being the biggest offender here). The game becomes even more of a snore inducer once you reach the point of having those specific items/sets and can only push higher by obtaining better versions of the items you already have. That's generally the point I stop playing a season.

As much flak as this game gets for how the stats aren't as impactful, I have to say I like the "fire and forget" aspect of it. Generally, if it's higher ilvl, it's better for you. There's some nuance to it, though (caster gear comes to mind; BLM loves gear with spell speed, while RDM and now SMN would much prefer all the other secondaries), but it's mostly on a class by class basis, such as the example I mentioned.

[Wrecktangle]

The review does a good job of describing what makes the game great, and the game does sound pretty amazing. As stated before though, I just don't want to dedicate THAT much time to stuff that doesn't directly relate to and involve fighting or story. I loved Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea back in the day and their in depth character development and stuff, but just don't want to spend that much time simply developing a character without directly progressing the story. Reminds me a lot of the FFX Sphere Grid system(and later titles really all had a similar feature) where a lot of time was dedicated to micro managing or grinding to get the points needed to get the next skill on the grid or create a specific build so you could more easily progress through the story. Even in Witcher 3, while I thoroughly enjoyed the game, felt that the early parts of the game where you were still relatively weak required a pretty significant amount of time gathering and crafting potions and just preparing for the next battle rather than actually fighting or progressing the story.

So while Mana Khemia sounds like a great game, it's just not my type of game anymore.

I was going to look you up and shoot you a friend request the other day and forgot your character name and forgot to check Discord. I'd definitely be up for grouping with you for anything. I'm working on getting my WHM up now (66 currently), and have all tanks and RDM at 70 already so we can queue up for whatever.

The only way we can add each other is from the social tab which means we'd need to be in a group or something first. I'm not on tonight, but I'll be around rest of the week so we can match up there.

When I was a youngin, I would play tactics just to master everyones job, even shit like Orlandu/Agrias all the way for all jobs. The last time I did a playthrough it was actually really hard. I was underleveled in the story by like 3-4 levels almost the entire game. That was with me not putting a ton of time or effort in lol. FFT is probably my favorite FF of all time.

Unfortunately with D3, that sort of freedom only works for so long; pushing the difficult content requires obtaining specific items and running specific skill set ups, which are mostly dictated by the gear you have (with sets being the biggest offender here). The game becomes even more of a snore inducer once you reach the point of having those specific items/sets and can only push higher by obtaining better versions of the items you already have. That's generally the point I stop playing a season.

As much flak as this game gets for how the stats aren't as impactful, I have to say I like the "fire and forget" aspect of it. Generally, if it's higher ilvl, it's better for you. There's some nuance to it, though (caster gear comes to mind; BLM loves gear with spell speed, while RDM and now SMN would much prefer all the other secondaries), but it's mostly on a class by class basis, such as the example I mentioned.

I have 2 main issues with D3:

1) Getting a build and putting it together is actually pretty fun (until you're like 1 item away and it keeps eluding you). The problem is once you finish your build all that gearing excitement goes away. Not sure how you can fix that though.

2) Combat. Isometric games have always had shitty combat IMO. How do you even make enemies that are threats based on skill? It's just math hurdles to get through and loses a lot of its charm. I like the rune system quite a bit, and love how it changes animations/abilities, but again, how do you really make it interesting?

Regarding gear in FF14, honestly it's so irrelevant at this point I'd almost be willing to let them scrap it entirely.

Hear me out. Bake the ilvl into our characters and just boost it on a per patch basis. Lower skilled players will have the same exact floor a skilled player will have which i know is important to your average player.

Then you can take all that effort that goes into gear and translate it into new content/systems. They could then kill the god awful materia system at the same time (aka remake it actually interesting).

[Faroth]

I recently picked up both Mana Khemia games for PS2. It will be forever before I can play them, but they are in my home library now!

[Aruhen]

Simple: They don't give a shit.
They go in, mash some buttons and want to receive loot so the reward centers in their brain are triggered.
Simple as that.

Similarly to how I can't bring my self to give a damn about stats and skills in single player RPGs. Give me fun abilities well designed fights and a great story.
Leave me be with allocating stats, farming gear and talent builds etc.

What "triggered" me was that we were basically doing the same thing, not giving a shit/paying attention. In hindsight I wish I looked at their ability usage.

Regarding the time bit, yeah trust me I feel you. I loved Persona 5, but the 100 hour journey was rough on me. Really rough. I basically didn't play any MMO/games during those 2 months and played the game non-stop. Persona is another one of those games (like Mana Khemia) where the more you invest in the side stuff, the more exciting the main bit is (story/combat).

I cannot stand such long games anymore. As much as I loved Persona 5 I did not like how long just the main story was. Heck if they cut it in half it would still be an easy 40 hours... rofl. Western RPGs do it so well honestly. Most games are 15~ for the main story but you can probably add 30~ hours by doing all the side story if you want to. Heck I can go play through all three Mass Effect games and do most of the side content and still finish them before Persona 5.... heh.

Speaking of that Mana Khemia game. I saw there was a PSP version that you can get for the Vita too. Got something new to play now. One day I need to go downtown to this retro game store owned by some cool Japanese dude that sells them for cheap. So many games from the old generations that I still need to play like Shadow Hearts.

[Wrecktangle]

I recently picked up both Mana Khemia games for PS2. It will be forever before I can play them, but they are in my home library now!

ayyyy. Def play the first one first. It's a shorter more concise adventure with lots of easter eggs you'll see/find in 2.

Go ahead and play it soon and I'll play something now of your choosing (almost finished dark souls 2, only 1.5 more DLC to go and a quick moonlight greatsword run and I'm done ).

What "triggered" me was that we were basically doing the same thing, not giving a shit/paying attention. In hindsight I wish I looked at their ability usage.

I cannot stand such long games anymore. As much as I loved Persona 5 I did not like how long just the main story was. Heck if they cut it in half it would still be an easy 40 hours... rofl. Western RPGs do it so well honestly. Most games are 15~ for the main story but you can probably add 30~ hours by doing all the side story if you want to. Heck I can go play through all three Mass Effect games and do most of the side content and still finish them before Persona 5.... heh.

Speaking of that Mana Khemia game. I saw there was a PSP version that you can get for the Vita too. Got something new to play now. One day I need to go downtown to this retro game store owned by some cool Japanese dude that sells them for cheap. So many games from the old generations that I still need to play like Shadow Hearts.

Depending on your settings in ACT you may still have those old pulls saved. Worth a headache/chuckle pending review LOL.

On one hand I REALLY don't want to support $60 games that only offer me 15 hours of playtime. Persona's bang for buck was tremendously valuable and I want to support that, but it truly was hard to find the time. I had to sacrifice a lot. It's a lose lose either way I'm afraid.

Fun fact, that's EXACTLY how I came across MK. It was at some real small retro game store I never knew existed and I liked the box art and grabbed it. The game blew me away and prompted me to buy Atelier Iris 1, 2 and 3 and MK2 and play through them lol.

I really need to play Shadow Hearts. I have them both, but haven't found the time.

[Granyala]

Unfortunately with D3, that sort of freedom only works for so long; pushing the difficult content requires obtaining specific items and running specific skill set ups, which are mostly dictated by the gear you have (with sets being the biggest offender here). The game becomes even more of a snore inducer once you reach the point of having those specific items/sets and can only push higher by obtaining better versions of the items you already have. That's generally the point I stop playing a season.

Umm I only played story mode.
Never saw a point to "grinding" gear by doing the same content over and over on a harder difficulty

Only game where I tolerate that to a modest extent would be FF-XIV.

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What "triggered" me was that we were basically doing the same thing, not giving a shit/paying attention. In hindsight I wish I looked at their ability usage.

Don't feel bad, I get "triggered" by group incompetence all the time. Just ask my screen, typically I yell at it. :S

[Kazgrel]

I have 2 main issues with D3:

1) Getting a build and putting it together is actually pretty fun (until you're like 1 item away and it keeps eluding you). The problem is once you finish your build all that gearing excitement goes away. Not sure how you can fix that though.

2) Combat. Isometric games have always had shitty combat IMO. How do you even make enemies that are threats based on skill? It's just math hurdles to get through and loses a lot of its charm. I like the rune system quite a bit, and love how it changes animations/abilities, but again, how do you really make it interesting?

Regarding gear in FF14, honestly it's so irrelevant at this point I'd almost be willing to let them scrap it entirely.

Hear me out. Bake the ilvl into our characters and just boost it on a per patch basis. Lower skilled players will have the same exact floor a skilled player will have which i know is important to your average player.

Then you can take all that effort that goes into gear and translate it into new content/systems. They could then kill the god awful materia system at the same time (aka remake it actually interesting).

Agree 100% with your first point concerning D3. Regarding the second...hard to say. I may try to get around to checking out Path of Exile at some point if I ever get the ARPG itch again, but D3 seems to have killed that off. Not really fair to PoE or any other game from that genre that I would just pass on them due to D3 burnout.

They wouldn't go about ditching gear entirely, but I do agree they need something of a spark in the itemization department. I mean...when I can sit here and safely predict our ilvl from patch to patch...that's a bit unexciting, outside of the "lol wonder how much damage I do at xyz ilvl".

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Umm I only played story mode.
Never saw a point to "grinding" gear by doing the same content over and over on a harder difficulty

Only game where I tolerate that to a modest extent would be FF-XIV.

Such a design paradigm (D3's, that is) has a limited lifespan due to people eventually getting bored of getting gear to battle more difficult content...which, given how I phrased it, can only make one wonder "then explain why you play MMOs, which are the same thing, perhaps less egregious of power creep, but it's still there".

[Katchii]

The only way we can add each other is from the social tab which means we'd need to be in a group or something first. I'm not on tonight, but I'll be around rest of the week so we can match up there.

When I was a youngin, I would play tactics just to master everyones job, even shit like Orlandu/Agrias all the way for all jobs. The last time I did a playthrough it was actually really hard. I was underleveled in the story by like 3-4 levels almost the entire game. That was with me not putting a ton of time or effort in lol. FFT is probably my favorite FF of all time.

I'll be online every day this week I think (planning on it anyway) to at least run the roulettes and beat tribe quest on my WHM.

I loved Tactics, played it through multiple times. It wasn't intense on the grind, but there were several places throughout the game where you needed to level up before you pushed through the story or the story missions were incredibly hard because you wouldn't have the right gear or class or whatever to counter the enemy. I specifically remember a battle farther along in the story where there a lot of ninjas on the roof that could move really far and do decent damage and not having a decent heal set and a few dragoons or otherwise potent ranged classes that could hit the rooftops while you were on the ground made the fight really hard. Another one was an underground library or temple or something that had the field separated by a wall with a single doorway so the battle could be dragged out for a while and could be difficult unless you had Samurai that could obliterate the guys in the doorway quickly or Dragoons that could ignore the separation and jump and hit the guys on the other side.

I have 2 main issues with D3:

1) Getting a build and putting it together is actually pretty fun (until you're like 1 item away and it keeps eluding you). The problem is once you finish your build all that gearing excitement goes away. Not sure how you can fix that though.

2) Combat. Isometric games have always had shitty combat IMO. How do you even make enemies that are threats based on skill? It's just math hurdles to get through and loses a lot of its charm. I like the rune system quite a bit, and love how it changes animations/abilities, but again, how do you really make it interesting?

Regarding gear in FF14, honestly it's so irrelevant at this point I'd almost be willing to let them scrap it entirely.

Hear me out. Bake the ilvl into our characters and just boost it on a per patch basis. Lower skilled players will have the same exact floor a skilled player will have which i know is important to your average player.

Then you can take all that effort that goes into gear and translate it into new content/systems. They could then kill the god awful materia system at the same time (aka remake it actually interesting).

Rather than just boost everyone at the same time with no work on anyone's part is have a set criteria for having the ilvl be boosted. Like getting passed or up to certain story elements would trigger the boost. I mean, in FFXIV where you gather crystals and work with Hydaelyn and whatever else, it would make perfect sense story wise for you to get a boost in power level when you reach certain story milestones. Make the player do SOMETHING to earn it. Otherwise I agree.

[Granyala]

Such a design paradigm (D3's, that is) has a limited lifespan due to people eventually getting bored of getting gear to battle more difficult content...which, given how I phrased it, can only make one wonder "then explain why you play MMOs, which are the same thing, perhaps less egregious of power creep, but it's still there".

Probably because of the social aspect and character attachment.
Lets face it: if it weren't for the people and the raiding experience I would never have lasted 8.5 years.
Now that I basically play WoW solo, I realize what a shallow and actually boring experience it is and my account goes back to sleep after one month.

[Kazgrel]

Didn't know Apkallu Falls was a thing until today. Pretty neat way to track nerd points...er achievements, for those who may be interested.

Pretty neat seeing that Pal-less Palace 3 (for soloing through floor 200) has yet to be done still. It's only able to pull from people who set their achieves to be viewable by public on their Lodestone profiles, though. I'm actually sorta surprised the 10k A rank achieve has only been completed by a whopping 6 people. I'm right on the cusp of 7k, and I'm someone who pretty much didn't play ARR at all while 50 was the level cap (for all of a whopping 2-3 weeks right before HW launch).

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Probably because of the social aspect and character attachment.
Lets face it: if it weren't for the people and the raiding experience I would never have lasted 8.5 years.
Now that I basically play WoW solo, I realize what a shallow and actually boring experience it is and my account goes back to sleep after one month.

I'd credit the former more than the latter, but I know plenty of folks who find it hard to drop a game after they've sunk so much time and development into a character.

One major reason I'm still playing this game is because several other friends also play; were they to all migrate over to another game, I'd likely follow suit. That does have it's limits, though...one friend wanted me to try FF11 a couple years ago, and I've yet to encounter a more annoying boss than PlayOnline. Another example of "no thanks" at this point would be WoW. Used to always keep tabs on it even when I wouldn't be playing; now I only do that inadvertently, mainly due to this forum.

[Granyala]

I'd credit the former more than the latter, but I know plenty of folks who find it hard to drop a game after they've sunk so much time and development into a character.

Dunno, I quite like my cat. I think I would miss her.
To be fair: I actively play around half an hour per day, with occasional peaks of heavy activity, even though I may be online for 4 hours while the client runs in the background with occasional chat-checks. My days of actively playing for hours on end each day (no matter what game) are long gone.
No clue why, but I simply lack the time and interest.

[Kazgrel]

Dunno, I quite like my cat. I think I would miss her.
To be fair: I actively play around half an hour per day, with occasional peaks of heavy activity, even though I may be online for 4 hours while the client runs in the background with occasional chat-checks. My days of actively playing for hours on end each day (no matter what game) are long gone.
No clue why, but I simply lack the time and interest.

Just speaking for me there. I never could swap my main in WoW from shaman after having played it through Elemental's early glory days (mid-late WotLK) and during it's pinnacle (MoP, imo), even despite it having been a roller coaster in terms of power/effectiveness. Then WoD happened, and on top of all the bad things that applied to everyone who played, I mained a class that had fallen to dog shit levels, so that made it all the easier to just bow out once and for all.

With shaman, I had found my calling in WoW. Elementalist in GW2. BLM here. Strange thing is how I just suddenly gravitated to those elemental-aspected caster types after years of cleaving things with greatswords and axes.

[Deleted]

Now that I basically play WoW solo, I realize what a shallow and actually boring experience it is and my account goes back to sleep after one month.

This describes my situation in WoW and FFXIV 100%. I kinda even alienated myself from group content/raiding.

[Granyala]

Just speaking for me there. I never could swap my main in WoW from shaman after having played it through Elemental's early glory days (mid-late WotLK) and during it's pinnacle (MoP, imo), even despite it having been a roller coaster in terms of power/effectiveness. Then WoD happened, and on top of all the bad things that applied to everyone who played, I mained a class that had fallen to dog shit levels, so that made it all the easier to just bow out once and for all.

Well I played a shadow priest from 2007 till 2016. So I know what "balance" means in Blizzard terms.
What really disconnected me from my character and made it easy to walk away (although not completely) were the new Draenei models. Esp the faces and their stupid "comic relief" animations, which are completely out of character.
MY Draenei no longer exists. Sure I can still play A Draenei but no longer the character I loved for almost 10 years.
Not sure if that makes sense to you.

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This describes my situation in WoW and FFXIV 100%. I kinda even alienated myself from group content/raiding.

That's a byproduct of being mostly inactive. Hell, I can't even run a quick M+ with guild mates because my gear is just utter crap compared to theirs.

FF-XIV isn't quite that extreme, because gear progression is much slower and 100% accessible + under players control.

[Graeham]

I love that FFXIV has a proper 'catch up' system in place. I'm not as keen on progression these days as I used to be and for the most part I'm a solo gamer. I love chatting with people and would be totally open to joining a laid back static but I've had zero luck finding one that doesn't feel like a second job. Clearing content through the party finder works well enough but I don't do it regularly as it lacks the charm of working alongside the same players and seeing them improve as well as myself.

[Granyala]

Apart from 24man raids (weekly drops, subject to RNG) the only catch-up mechanism I can think of would be the reduction in tome costs once a new Tier of gear is released.

[The Casualty]

You should now also be able to do hunts for seals to purchase the upgrade materials to go from 330 to 340 iirc.

[Faroth]

Umm I only played story mode.
Never saw a point to "grinding" gear by doing the same content over and over on a harder difficulty

Only game where I tolerate that to a modest extent would be FF-XIV.

I played story mode on PC, picked up the PS4 version later and couldn't bring myself to replay the story just to get to the expansion. At least not at the time.

I've never really felt hooked by gear grind outside of MMOs. MMOs offer enough variety that the gear grind is just a part of the experience, not the totality of it, and there are a variety of activities available.

I think Diablo is much less appealing in that regard because I really don't care about button mashing a billion times for the luxury of button mashing some more so I can then do more button mashing. Diablo isn't exactly complex with interesting boss battles, imo.

If I didn't have friends playing FFXIV, there's a good chance I'd primarily subscribe to it and WoW in alternating periods and primarily do the story content. I think I'd maintain a XIV sub more since I do like poking at other things a lot. But my focus on maintaining gear would definitely shift to being less priority.

I love that FFXIV has a proper 'catch up' system in place. I'm not as keen on progression these days as I used to be and for the most part I'm a solo gamer. I love chatting with people and would be totally open to joining a laid back static but I've had zero luck finding one that doesn't feel like a second job. Clearing content through the party finder works well enough but I don't do it regularly as it lacks the charm of working alongside the same players and seeing them improve as well as myself.

What data center are you on?

[Kaelwryn]

You should now also be able to do hunts for seals to purchase the upgrade materials to go from 330 to 340 iirc.

Both hunts and 24man will allow you to upgrade. Only right and left side. Weapon is still locked to savage.





Look at himmmmm! He's adorable! *_*