Subtlety Ring

[Deleted]

Hello peeps,

I am having a hard time deciding which ring I should use. I recently got [Soul of the Shadowblade] which as 1052 crit, 769 haste and 1281 mastery. I am currently using [Insignia of Ravenholdt] 3515 stamina, 2284 crit and 1602 haste. Is it worth replacing Insignia of Ravenholdt or should I stick to it instead of my new ring Soul of the Shadowblade.

Thank you in advance.

/Luffarbob

[nothingsjim]

Swap to new ring. Insignia has way too much haste and we don't use enough Combo point generator to make the effect worthwhile.

The only time you will want to use Insignia is when you're AoEing trash, or you play SnD Outlaw.

[shaunika123]

soul of shadowblade is better in basically any situation

[Battlebeard]

Insignia is a lot stronger than Soul.

You are never energy starving in Sub, the ring becomes kind of useless.

While Insignia offers 15% damage with Backstab and Shadowstrike, two abilities you DO use a lot.

I use neither, but I Tested myself and DPS got A LOT higher with Insignia.

[ymirsson]

This is a question for SimcraftMan.

Not the superhero we deserve, but the one we need.

(This post was made to tell you that only a sim can help you. Or several hours at a dummy.)

[Deleted]

Insignia is a lot stronger than Soul.

You are never energy starving in Sub, the ring becomes kind of useless.

While Insignia offers 15% damage with Backstab and Shadowstrike, two abilities you DO use a lot.

I use neither, but I Tested myself and DPS got A LOT higher with Insignia.

Depends on fight really, if there is even a chance for 2 targets soul is much better.

[Deleted]

Insignia is a lot stronger than Soul.

You are never energy starving in Sub, the ring becomes kind of useless.

While Insignia offers 15% damage with Backstab and Shadowstrike, two abilities you DO use a lot.

I use neither, but I Tested myself and DPS got A LOT higher with Insignia.

This is 100%, certified, flat out wrong.

[Nekroman]

Insignia is possibly better single target, if anything. Think of it this way.. what button do you spam in aoe situations? Does that spell proc insignia? Obviously shadowblade is better in most cases.

[britishbubba]

Insignia is a lot stronger than Soul.

You are never energy starving in Sub, the ring becomes kind of useless.

While Insignia offers 15% damage with Backstab and Shadowstrike, two abilities you DO use a lot.

I use neither, but I Tested myself and DPS got A LOT higher with Insignia.

If you're never missing GCDs due to lack of energy then you must have some god tier energetic stabbing procs. Wait time isn't insane as sub, but the soul ring is far from useless, especially if there's any shuriken combo to be had.

[Battlebeard]

If you're never missing GCDs due to lack of energy then you must have some god tier energetic stabbing procs. Wait time isn't insane as sub, but the soul ring is far from useless, especially if there's any shuriken combo to be had.

Well, maybe it can simplyfy the gameplay sure, but the question was if it's better than Insignia, and no it's not.

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This is 100%, certified, flat out wrong.

No, it really isn't.

[Deleted]

Well, maybe it can simplyfy the gameplay sure, but the question was if it's better than Insignia, and no it's not.

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No, it really isn't.

i sim higher with soul than with insigna.

[britishbubba]

Well, maybe it can simplyfy the gameplay sure, but the question was if it's better than Insignia, and no it's not.

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No, it really isn't.

On pure single target, it's better. Once your using shuriken storm a good amount (demonic, harjitan, mistress, host, avatar, KJ?) Soul ring should be better.

[Deleted]

Vigor ring is way better especially in M+.

[RobertoCarlos]

Well, maybe it can simplyfy the gameplay sure, but the question was if it's better than Insignia, and no it's not.

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No, it really isn't.

Yeah it is better than insig. Which is only really decent for outlaw.

Fan of knives doesnt proc insig

[Vicus]

The only other way to answer questions like these with hard numbers and not feely craft, if you are not going to sim your own stats, is to use cookie cutter builds. The cookie cuter sims in T20 mythic have insignia with a slight lead, in single target, over vigor. You should be able to infer from that, in a 2 target cleave situation, Insignia should pull ahead a bit more, and in 3+ target situation Vigor would be a clear win.

Regardless, they are both below average dps legos atm. [insert rant about how much I hate the lego system]

http://tc.ravenholdt.net/combination...y_t20m_1t.html

[Critical92]

Insignia looses value the moment you start using fok/shurikenstorm and that would be 2+ targets outside dance and 3+ with dance.

[Halobob87]

Pretty simple: on 2+ target insigna become totally useless couse you're no longer pressing backstab. On ST they're close, and it really dependes on a few factors: insigna is better at higher leves of crit, and also get better if u have some BS or SS relic/ crucible modifiers, so you should actually just sim them. Also keep in mind that vigor ring really help if you're using a lot faint for x reasons.

[Battlebeard]

i sim higher with soul than with insigna.

Big difference between sim and actual damage. I tried both at multiple fights, and I'm far higher with Insignia.

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On pure single target, it's better. Once your using shuriken storm a good amount (demonic, harjitan, mistress, host, avatar, KJ?) Soul ring should be better.

Demonic is a single target fight, as you do not have the 2 bosses stand to eachother.
Harjatan is more of a single target fight, non-mythic, as you can just zerg the boss as a rogue, the adds will die by default cleave damage from the raid.
Mistress is exact same as Harjatan non-mythic, all adds die by default cleave damage from the raid, you can go pure single target.
Host is a single target fight non-mythic.
Avatar is a single target fight non-mythic. When you swap for the girl, she is usually not in range for storm to be effective, so backstab there too.
KJ, same thing as the previous ones, the adds die within seconds by default cleaves, the rogue can just single target boss. Adds in shadowphase are rarely close to eachother.

So for entire Tomb, Insignia is by far a superior choice.

[britishbubba]

Big difference between sim and actual damage. I tried both at multiple fights, and I'm far higher with Insignia.

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Demonic is a single target fight, as you do not have the 2 bosses stand to eachother.
Harjatan is more of a single target fight, non-mythic, as you can just zerg the boss as a rogue, the adds will die by default cleave damage from the raid.
Mistress is exact same as Harjatan non-mythic, all adds die by default cleave damage from the raid, you can go pure single target.
Host is a single target fight non-mythic.
Avatar is a single target fight non-mythic. When you swap for the girl, she is usually not in range for storm to be effective, so backstab there too.
KJ, same thing as the previous ones, the adds die within seconds by default cleaves, the rogue can just single target boss. Adds in shadowphase are rarely close to eachother.

So for entire Tomb, Insignia is by far a superior choice.

Demonic. Except ya know, there's adds on mythic. And the bosses do stand close enough for SS if your tanks are competent.

Harjatan. You SS the adds before more ST damage. Do you even know what shuriken combo is?

Mistress. Uh. You SS the adds for more ST damage. Insignia would just be pointless pad.

Host. Sit top side. SS the adds while they have shield for a bit. Free boss damage.

Avatar. Storm is better at 2 targets outside of dance. If killing maiden early isn't a concern (it shouldn't be) Storm is better ST damage outside dance, and will get you more dances over the entire fight.

KJ. Just kill adds with default cleaves. Yeah, fuck shuriken combo. Chump passive anyway.

Like, do you actually play sub rogue, or do you just think buffing evis by 50% by using the proper generator is padding?

[Deleted]

Demonic is a single target fight, as you do not have the 2 bosses stand to eachother.
Harjatan is more of a single target fight, non-mythic, as you can just zerg the boss as a rogue, the adds will die by default cleave damage from the raid.
Mistress is exact same as Harjatan non-mythic, all adds die by default cleave damage from the raid, you can go pure single target.
Host is a single target fight non-mythic.
Avatar is a single target fight non-mythic. When you swap for the girl, she is usually not in range for storm to be effective, so backstab there too.
KJ, same thing as the previous ones, the adds die within seconds by default cleaves, the rogue can just single target boss. Adds in shadowphase are rarely close to eachother.
So for entire Tomb, Insignia is by far a superior choice.

For Tomb Heroic it might be better on most fights, but that's also just cherrypicking. Most people that kill KJ HC will at least spend some time on M Inq/Harja, so it's not like it is useless.

I also sim higher ST with Soul than with Insignia, about 18k, which contextually is close to nothing. Both the rings seem very evenly matched for ST. It will depend on your statweights too, as Vigor scales better with % increased haste than strictly doing more fillers do.

Also, how can you say "host is ST fight non-mythic"? The whole point of using Soul is to do more Shuriken Storms to buff EVIS for *more ST dmg*, not to pad with AoE dmg (not like we really can). Avatar is a great example of a fight to use Soul on, as a matter of fact. The adds with bone-armor have a decently high uptime you can stack on, so ask your RL to go outside. Your ST dmg on engine will be monstrous.

It's a dps increase to cleave the maiden for SS stacks, even on HC ._. Depends on whether you want to get to p2 fast or you want more damage in p2, but I think you're presuming a lot of things here without doing any research into it.