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  1. #281
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUPLEB View Post
    How I would have done ToS (item levels and war/titan forging).

    1. 890 -> 905 (LFR)
    2. 905 -> 920 (Normal)
    3. 920 -> 935 (Heroic)
    4. 935 -> 955 (Mythic)

    Difficulty -> Base item level -> Capped item level
    (The weekly chest regardless of difficulty should TF up to 955 though).

    Heroic Dungeon -> 870 -> 905
    Mythic +00 -> 875 -> 905
    Mythic +01 -> 880 -> 905
    Mythic +02 -> 885 -> 905
    Mythic +03 -> 890 -> 905
    Mythic +04 -> 895 -> 905
    Mythic +05 -> 900 -> 920
    Mythic +06 -> 905 -> 920
    Mythic +07 -> 910 -> 920
    Mythic +08 -> 915 -> 935
    Mythic +09 -> 920 -> 935
    Mythic +10 -> 925 -> 935

    WQ -> 870 -> 905

    1. It would boost up Mythic raiding participation due to it giving substantially better loot rewards (as it should).
    2. It would remove the redundancy to run lower difficulties just to get lucky for that 955 TF loot (less frustration).
    Good job, you just won an unsub from me with your titanforging design, because you removed all incentive from me to do the only thing i do right now every day - M+ dungeons. I'm not staying subbed for logging into the game twice a week for a raid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Good for you, I have a 950 HC ring and a 945 normal belt and I ran with a few LFR pieces for quite a while.
    Tourist mode should not drop items that are better or even close to as good as mythic. It's simply stupid.
    You are either lying or extremely lucky. Or does obscene amount trivial content and fish for pointless (read: unlikely, because chance of an item dropping from EN(LFR) that then ramps up to 950 or whatever are way less likely than doing a mythic ToS) upgrades, instead of gearing up properly
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #282
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    What the heck are you talking about? Mythic and LFR can both drop 955. That just the way the system works. Nothing wrong with the argument at all.
    Again I ask: What argument?

    You have a stated a fact. Not an argument. I presented an argument, an argument that demonstrated that your fact does not lead to the conclusion that "the current system ... is stupid".

    Yes, we all get it. LFR can, in theory drop Mythic Level gear. So what? @Lucetia explained why this is a good thing. You simply claim, without substantion or reasoning that, no, it's just stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Stop being silly and come up with a fix for the problem instead.
    How about you substantiate why it's a problem? You consistently fail to do so, instead choosing to whine in thread after thread, saying how terrible the system is, but never substantiating, and of course, in the process, insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you is simply an idiot.

    I mean, how the hell do you expect anyone to fix the problem if you can't even justify that it exists in the first place?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Again I ask: What argument?

    You have a stated a fact. Not an argument. I presented an argument, an argument that demonstrated that your fact does not lead to the conclusion that "the current system ... is stupid".

    Yes, we all get it. LFR can, in theory drop Mythic Level gear. So what? @Lucetia explained why this is a good thing. You simply claim, without substantion or reasoning that, no, it's just stupid.



    How about you substantiate why it's a problem? You consistently fail to do so, instead choosing to whine in thread after thread, saying how terrible the system is, but never substantiating, and of course, in the process, insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you is simply an idiot.

    I mean, how the hell do you expect anyone to fix the problem if you can't even justify that it exists in the first place?
    No one explained why it was a "good thing". Shes just trolling. Not sure why though.
    It is just a bad design in any way you look at it.

    And yes, I did give you facts while you just toss out nonsense. Why are you even here, I wonder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Good job, you just won an unsub from me with your titanforging design, because you removed all incentive from me to do the only thing i do right now every day - M+ dungeons. I'm not staying subbed for logging into the game twice a week for a raid

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are either lying or extremely lucky. Or does obscene amount trivial content and fish for pointless (read: unlikely, because chance of an item dropping from EN(LFR) that then ramps up to 950 or whatever are way less likely than doing a mythic ToS) upgrades, instead of gearing up properly
    I'm not lying and I never said anything about EN but it doesn't matter how unlikely it is to happen, it should never happen.
    The game is not supposed to be a lottery.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Suyre but it should be the only source of good gear.
    Luck should not let you get the same gear in LFR.
    Why not?

    You can't just go around making arbitrary, poorly thought out statements like this and expect anyone with a functioning brain to just accept it because you said so (and honestly, it's got to the point where because you said so is actually becoming a reason to find a statement dubious ).

    Harder content should reward better gear because reward should generally tied to effort/difficulty. This is the nature of progression raiding. However the flaw in your thinking is that because it's possible to get a random lucky drop from LFR, that means that LFR rewards better gear. That is easily proven false by considering the following scenario:

    Take 100 raiders doing every LFR boss every week for a month. Take another 100 raiders doing every Mythic boss every week for a month. Then compare to see who has the better gear. If you want, you can go and look through a bunch of armory pages, but really, that is unnecessary since anyone can tell you the result.

    It's not even going to be close. People who raid Mythic are going to have significantly better gear than not only those who raid LFR, but even above those who raid 1 level lower at heroic.

    So, allowing the odd TF item to drop from a format like LFR doesn't break anything. What TF does achieve is to allow for people doing that content to gradually upgrade their gear, thus providing a reward mechanism for commitment and effort (which most people would agree is a good principle to follow).

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Why not?

    You can't just go around making arbitrary, poorly thought out statements like this and expect anyone with a functioning brain to just accept it because you said so (and honestly, it's got to the point where because you said so is actually becoming a reason to find a statement dubious ).

    Harder content should reward better gear because reward should generally tied to effort/difficulty. This is the nature of progression raiding. However the flaw in your thinking is that because it's possible to get a random lucky drop from LFR, that means that LFR rewards better gear. That is easily proven false by considering the following scenario:

    Take 100 raiders doing every LFR boss every week for a month. Take another 100 raiders doing every Mythic boss every week for a month. Then compare to see who has the better gear. If you want, you can go and look through a bunch of armory pages, but really, that is unnecessary since anyone can tell you the result.

    It's not even going to be close. People who raid Mythic are going to have significantly better gear than not only those who raid LFR, but even above those who raid 1 level lower at heroic.

    So, allowing the odd TF item to drop from a format like LFR doesn't break anything. What TF does achieve is to allow for people doing that content to gradually upgrade their gear, thus providing a reward mechanism for commitment and effort (which most people would agree is a good principle to follow).
    I'm glad you're following posts here but again, you're simply wrong.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No one explained why it was a "good thing".
    Yes she did.

    "The reason is because Titanforging is actually good for the game the way it is. You should be able to do any piece of content and have the chance of being rewarded with something higher. It gives you incentives to do other parts of the content rather than one area. If you know it's going to cap out at X lvl then you'll get to a point where you aren't wanting to do it because it gives you nothing. Titanforging helps give parts of the game an incentive to still be active. "

    That is what is known as a substantive argument. She laid out her facts justified her opinion. She may be wrong, but you certainly have provided absolutely no reason to qualify such an assertion. Instead all you seem to be able to come up with is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Shes just trolling. Not sure why though.
    It is just a bad design in any way you look at it.
    Pathetic. Seriously, this is kindergarten level of argumentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    And yes, I did give you facts while you just toss out nonsense.
    As I already noted:
    1) Many of your "facts" are dubious at best
    2) Facts =/= arguments. You can spout facts all day, and even if they are correct, that doesn't prove you're right. You have to link your fact to your conclusion and explain why, by logic or by reference to previous proof, why the fact supports your conclusion. Without that your argument is nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Why are you even here, I wonder.
    Because this is a debating forum and your argument begs to be opposed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I'm glad you're following posts here but again, you're simply wrong.
    If I am wrong, then surely you can show me where? All you've done so far is demonstrating again and again, with your one line quips that you lack the capacity to construct an argument. So either bring an argument or resign yourself to the fact that anyone with any capacity for reason is going to dismiss what you say as being utterly worthless.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    In ideal world yes, in practice mythic guilds are disbanding left and right and people's interest is dwindling because lots of players are reward driven not pure challenge seekers. Yes, you can't afk in LFR to 940 ilvl, but you can put 1/10 of the effort of raiding mythic by raiding heroic + weekly mythic+ chest + argus world boss instead and get somewhere close. My hunter is 940 if I equip my "ilvl gear" without setting a foot in mythic (my normal gear is lower due to convergence and set pieces being from hc and the only titanforge is 920 normal tier piece), my 8/9m main has same or less ilvl than my alt, how sad is that.

    I personally won't quit mythic just because of gear, but if people around me do, that impacts me, because I need at least 19 others to raid with. And also there's an issue with wide range of skill in "mythic guilds", can't compare a guy who's 3/9m and 9/9m and say they would do well if together if their guilds merged. At least 4 guilds on my server disbanded because they reached the point of pre-nerf Mistress, realized they have some weak links in the team that makes her unkillable, so they would have to sit and wait for nerfs or replace these players - and there was no recruitment pool left, people capable of killing pre-nerf Mistress became so rare, tons of them quit.

    Something needs to happen with mythic raiding, it can't be just a raiding version of CM you'd wanna do once for bragging rights and then never step into it again. Not even mentioning tons of people paid for CM boosts because they didn't care about the challenge itself, just wanted that sweet mog. So yeah, another case where "challenge seekers" are a tiny minority and most people wanted it for the 1-time reward.
    Those who cant live up to the challenge leave it.
    Those who accept the challenge, stay.
    You can spend 1/10 of the effort to get almost the same gear, so you dont fall behind too much.
    If people around you quit and you dont, you are surrounded with people who do not share your mindset.
    Mythic being closer to CM than old Heroic makes it more prestigous for the guilds. Sure, you will have people who buy it, but a guild is a group, not an individual.

  8. #288
    LFR --> N = +100 ilvls
    N --> H = +7 ilvls
    H --> M = +8 ilvls

    LFR gear should be white color, or grey.

  9. #289
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    because their game play does not impact your game play.
    of course it impacts me if every shit can procc to 955.

  10. #290
    "Hardcore" players being upset that the casuals were getting gear has been an issue since day 1.

    In TBC we saw the birth of the term "welfare gear" when they introduced epic arena gear and badges of justice.
    In WoTLK we saw it continue with the introduction of queable heroics and badge gear that was equivalent of 25 man current tier raid gear.
    In Cataclysm we saw people mad about 10 man raids dropping the same ilevel as 25 mans.
    In Pandaria LFR come along and the complaining reached new levels.
    In WoD I wasn't playing, but I am sure there was something, maybe BiS crafted gear?

    Heck, back in vanilla when I was progressing through BWL I remember a guy in a rival guild telling me that I wasn't a "real raider" because I was using a lion heart helm and Quel'Delar, and "store bought epics don't count!".


    So yeah, its no surprise that people are going to complain about the titan forge system allowing people to occasionally win the jackpot and get a single piece of mythic quality loot, and it will be no surprise when whatever new loot system Blizzard introduces at Blizzcon this year will "kill the game" for allowing "casuals to get gear they don't deserve" in 8.0.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Drsephuz7 View Post
    of course it impacts me if every shit can procc to 955.
    are they in your raid?
    are they causing you to wipe?
    did they kill you mid mistress attempt?

    sorry how does it impact you?

  12. #292
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    are they in your raid?
    are they causing you to wipe?
    did they kill you mid mistress attempt?

    sorry how does it impact you?
    you fail to understand the point i made in the first place
    i dont care that others procc gear.
    i think its annoying that titanforging makes irrelevant old content a possible upgrade if you want to optimize your char. (e.g nighthold set/cof/etc)

    the ability of every shit content being able to max procc to 955 impacts lots of hardcore players - if even its only doing heroic every week for possible TF
    if someone proccs 955 in heroic im not mad at the person but at the game for having this even be possible in the first place

  13. #293
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    Just went on PTR, LFR Antorus (dungeon journal) won't drop Argus trinkets(epic&legendary) or +5 itemlevel upgrade items for the epic ones so no LFR 1000 itemlevel trinkets

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Drsephuz7 View Post
    of course it impacts me if every shit can procc to 955.
    how it impacts you when it isnt your gear

    why do you care about other people's pixels ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Just went on PTR, LFR Antorus (dungeon journal) won't drop Argus trinkets(epic&legendary) or +5 itemlevel upgrade items for the epic ones so no LFR 1000 itemlevel trinkets
    well they just won themselves at least -1 mln subs from people who will complete lfr and then unsub till 8,0 instead farm those upgrades for nearly a year like good hamsters on the wheel .

    dont really see a reason why to celebrate but hey if they dont like $$$ its up to them to tell the investors why they lost them shitload of money from those subs /shrug

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidget View Post
    He's not talking about how what other people getting is affecting him, he's talking about all the trivial and sheer amount of content he has to run for potential upgrades. When you have to run EN, ToV, NH, ToS in LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic difficulty every week and chain run mythic+ once you've done that it starts to feel rather daunting to stay competitive.

    This could easily be solved by not allowing titanforging to go beyond heroic iLvls and also not raise the titanforging cap of old raids, let it stay where it was when the content was relevant.
    well then its clearly problem with his pshychic if he cant stop himself from farming all possible content there is in game all week long for 0,0000001% of upgrade.

    he has more chances to win in lotto lottery then proc 955 from 885 - and that ToS lfr - chances of geting 955 from 840 gear in EN is astronimicaly low.

  16. #296
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    Further increasing loot ilvl gaps is the last thing the game needs. We already have insane gear inflation.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    "The reason is because Titanforging is actually good for the game the way it is. You should be able to do any piece of content and have the chance of being rewarded with something higher. It gives you incentives to do other parts of the content rather than one area. If you know it's going to cap out at X lvl then you'll get to a point where you aren't wanting to do it because it gives you nothing. Titanforging helps give parts of the game an incentive to still be active. "
    Hi, I already replied to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Meiffert View Post
    Blizzard says that they like the idea that I can get an upgrade from LFR, so I don't feel bad for running it. While that is true, I don't understand why I should be "bribed" to do LFR when I'm 9/9m. What does that achieve? I am bored and the other players in the group are bored as well, because I can solo heal everything and they are useless.
    Maybe I'm just missing something obvious here...
    I disagree that "any content should be relevant". Why have multiple difficulties in that case? Me doing LFR or heroic dungeons is boring not only for me, but it destroys the integrity of the run for everyone involved. I just run through the dungeon in my 950 dps spec and the other 4 players are observers.

    I'm also not sure how serious Lucetia is tbh.
    Saying in one post that all content should give potential upgrades to stay relevant, since character gear progression is so integral to the game and then in the very next post "raids should give you template gear/stats with predetermined item level, so that everyone is on an equal footing" doesn't inspire confidence.


    I went more into detail about some of the negative effects of current version of titanforging in my previous post if you are interested.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Meiffert View Post

    Now I farmed my 925 Convergence, but as soon as Tomb opened, the cap was retrospectively increased to 955 and it's BiS again. Why shouldn't it? The effect is strong and it won't be pushed into irrelevance by item level, because the max item level is being increased.
    Next tier it will be increased to 985 and be BiS again. That's the biggest part of the issue.
    But the next tier, the chance for you to get a new convergence with 20-30 more ilvls is a few thousand times lower than before. It still has a crappy base ilvl. At some point it stops being a good idea.

    When you first get a piece of mythic loot, you only need 3 "forging" procs to get it to cap. Next tier it's 9 forging procs ... the chance for that starts becoming abysmal once you add another 30ilvls on the cap.

  19. #299
    Or NOT as gear doesn't mean shit! We all do what we want as a challenge,, not to point at the neighbor "lol my pants are better than yours!"..... get over your special snowflake BS!

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by dakalro View Post
    When you first get a piece of mythic loot, you only need 3 "forging" procs to get it to cap. Next tier it's 9 forging procs ... the chance for that starts becoming abysmal once you add another 30ilvls on the cap.
    You are right, but consider it from this angle:
    The whole point of TF is to give incentive to run "old" content. So that you don't feel like you wasted your time helping some friends in LFR (or so Blizzard says).

    I say that it creates more problems than it solves (that might or might not be the case).

    And your counter-argument is that the chance is so ridiculously small that it's as if it wasn't even there. But doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the system then?
    You basically say: TF more than 15 ilvl is so rare that we can just assume it doesn't exist.
    How about taking it a step further and make it actually not exist then?

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