(SPOILERS ) How Powerful is Argus the Unmaker? Like, seriously?

[TheFirstOnes]

The Lich King is the only raid boss that actually killed the raid. Argus couldn't do that because LK is better. Also, LK's ultimate ability flat out kills everything including Argus meanwhile the LK can only be killed at the Frozen Throne so even if Argus ended creation if the LK wasn't at the Frozen Throne when that happened then LK would live.

I seriously hope you're not serious, and you just wanted to piss that guy off.

[Aucald]

Cough, seeing how he struggles with that whole "winning" thing, perhaps he should pay it a little more attention

Well, he can't really win in the game narrative or the game would be pretty decisively over. He does seem to kill the raid in the course of the encounter, though - that's pretty much the high bar for raid boss "lethality" in the relative sense.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

The Lich King is the only raid boss that actually killed the raid. Argus couldn't do that because LK is better. Also, LK's ultimate ability flat out kills everything including Argus meanwhile the LK can only be killed at the Frozen Throne so even if Argus ended creation if the LK wasn't at the Frozen Throne when that happened then LK would live.

Argus the muthafucking Unmaker did kill the entire raid and he did so while we were empowered by the Pantheon's spirits. We were then resurrected literally by Eonar the Galaxy Mother. So now the LK ain't the only one who actually kills the raid. The Lich King is awesome and badass, possibly the strongest final boss right after Argus the Unmaker but the LK won't last 10 seconds against the Unmaker 1 on 1. He'll get Unmade into nothingness. If Argus ended Creation then the Frozen Throne would be gone too cause creation has already ended. I think even Evil Aggramar's Empowered Avatar might be a match for the Lich King.

- - - Updated - - -

Cough, seeing how he struggles with that whole "winning" thing, perhaps he should pay it a little more attention

He's doing a much better job than Mudmug whose not even strong enough to be a 5 man dungeon boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Could Argus the Unmaker be the child of Light and Shadow? Argus used to be the Eredar, now deep in Fel.

I'm thinking maybe Alleria could be the chosen one. She was first a child of the Light when she served Xera and the Light but than went to Locus Walker for the Void. I can see her becoming one of the most powerful characters in the future.

[Konteil]

It's over 9000

bwah hah hah hah

- - - Updated - - -

That fight reminds me a little of the Malthael in the Reaper of Souls.

i can see it. this raid tier may be the one that i get into the mythic push just to see it.

[Arrashi]

He's doing a much better job than Mudmug whose not even strong enough to be a 5 man dungeon boss.

Wow outdated engine couldn't handle mudmug boss fight. Neither could players.

[Aucald]

That's not true. The villains can have major victories without breaking the story. What you need is timeskips so you can show all the damage they did without making the heroes feel impotent.

In the case of Argus the Unmaker, his metric for victory appears to be "end all of existence," there's not really going to a time-skip on that that will allow the heroes to pick up from the defeat as they'll have been obliterated. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

[Arrashi]

That's not true. The villains can have major victories without breaking the story. What you need is timeskips so you can show all the damage they did without making the heroes feel impotent.

What you need is villains who have actual personalities and any form of goals rather than bunch of screaming retards wanting to "destroy the world".

[Jastall]

Actually its supposed to (in minds of scythe wielders) show how badass they are for willingly wielding the worst possible weapon. "Im not gonna use weapon that is effective and easy to wield, thats for babies !".

By Warcraft standards, I'd say scythes are above average in terms of practicality. At least, unlike glaives, they have some range and you don't have as much chance of hurting yourself.

[darkoms]

The Lich King is awesome and badass, possibly the strongest final boss right after Argus the Unmaker

...
Realy? Again? How many times do I have to repeat that Arthas is much weaker than his fans think? Other final bosses will wipe it into powder
Deathwing
Kil'jaeden
Archimonde

[Volardelis]

...
Realy? Again? How many times do I have to repeat that Arthas is much weaker than his fans think? Other final bosses will wipe it into powder
Deathwing
Kil'jaeden
Archimonde

Larry has a hard on for Arthas

Same way Kosak has one for Sylvanas

[Rathbourne]

...
Realy? Again? How many times do I have to repeat that Arthas is much weaker than his fans think? Other final bosses will wipe it into powder
Deathwing
Kil'jaeden
Archimonde

Its a troll vs a troll argument. Stay away from da voodoo mon !!

[Diggster]

I seriously hope you're not serious, and you just wanted to piss that guy off.

I don't think he's being serious. That could just be my refusal to believe that anybody is actually that dumb though

[Eazy]

The Lich King is awesome and badass, possibly the strongest final boss right after Argus the Unmaker

I'm sorry but even Cho'gall is stronger than LK and Blizz confirmed that Illidan is stronger than LK, same for Algalon, Gul'dan and Xavius.

[Deleted]

And, most of all, death is in the domain of void, and as Argus is certainly not a Void Titan, it would be extremely weird for him to be death related.

Death is not in the domain of the void, it's an independent force in WoW universe.
Despite this, I think what he meant when he said Argus might be the titan of death is that he is related to the end of life, not to necromantic powers.

Well that is the way he tries to end one particular phase. It's not his actual purpose though; Sargeras is still planning to claim Azeroth up till the end after all and he cannot do that if he kills her. And it was more of a general observation on possible narrative structures that could allow a game like WoW to work with the villains still getting a major victory.

Well at the end of the expansion Sargeras tries to destroy Azeroth. Maybe he wants her, but he might be still willing to kill her rather than risk a void infection.

I'm sorry but even Cho'gall is stronger than LK and Blizz confirmed that Illidan is stronger than LK, same for Algalon, Gul'dan and Xavius.

Blizzard only confirmed that Lei Shen in his prime would defeat the Lich King. The books confirms that Illidan had a close match with Arthas (pre-lk) and lost due to his arogance. I don't remember reading anything about Algalon, Cho'Gal, Gul'dan and Xavius, so I suppose it's just your headcanon.

[Eazy]

so I suppose it's just your headcanon.

No, it's true. Check the blue posts.

[Rafoel]

No, it's true. Check the blue posts.

It's not true. Checkthe blueposts.

[Deleted]

That fight reminds me a little of the Malthael in the Reaper of Souls.

They went full Malthael with Argus (Blue/Black colors, Death Fog..., dual Scythes vs 2hand Scythes)

Cant complain, Malthael & Argus are cool as fuck.

[Dagoth Ur]

In the case of Argus the Unmaker, his metric for victory appears to be "end all of existence," there's not really going to a time-skip on that that will allow the heroes to pick up from the defeat as they'll have been obliterated. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

I see it more as problem with players not wanting dynamic world and any changes reflected in game because Darkshore is their favorite safe space or fishing spot or Murky is their favourite character or they don't like the color of Fel or whatever.

If villains were allowed to actually do some damage on playable world and make territorial changes, they would feel much more threatening and you could have villain victories that don't feel insignificant shortly after.
Instead we always get new isolated landmass where everything plays out leaving the places we actually care about safe and secure.

The Wound is a step in right direction though. This is the closes thing to Phyrric victory in WoW if I ever saw one.

[Aucald]

I see it more as problem with players not wanting dynamic world and any changes reflected in game because Darkshore is their favorite safe space or fishing spot or Murky is their favourite character or they don't like the color of Fel or whatever.

If villains were allowed to actually do some damage on playable world and make territorial changes, they would feel much more threatening and you could have villain victories that don't feel insignificant shortly after.
Instead we always get new isolated landmass where everything plays out leaving the places we actually care about safe and secure.

The Wound is a step in right direction though. This is the closes thing to Phyrric victory in WoW if I ever saw one.

I think the developers *want* a dynamic and changing world - they've made movements in that direction for some time now, with phasing and staging and revamp content over multiple iterations of WoW's expansions. The issue with it is both technical (looping Dalarans, the fiasco that was Icecrown Citadel, and world-lag due to instancing bugs) and community-based as you stated above. The Cata revamp was received very badly, as well - which was likely envisioned as a huge coup for the villain of the expansion Deathwing, letting him make huge alterations to the world we knew and loved and forcing us to live in the aftermath of his carnage.

[Arrashi]

I think the developers *want* a dynamic and changing world - they've made movements in that direction for some time now, with phasing and staging and revamp content over multiple iterations of WoW's expansions. The issue with it is both technical (looping Dalarans, the fiasco that was Icecrown Citadel, and world-lag due to instancing bugs) and community-based as you stated above. The Cata revamp was received very badly, as well - which was likely envisioned as a huge coup for the villain of the expansion Deathwing, letting him make huge alterations to the world we knew and loved and forcing us to live in the aftermath of his carnage.

You know what would be really great ? Introducing villains before patch/expansion that they will eat shit. I mean, its bad all around since after wotlk era but WoD was possibly worst in that regard with failures of draenor just appearing with WWE intros in taanan and then just dying.