So you matured out of WOW? have look here!

[Jazzhands]

By your logic WoW is dying too, player numbers have steadily been going down since what? WotLK? It's the nature of MMO's, they peak and then steadily decline. Scamming is absolutely 100% not anything to do with the reason of player count, but stagnation that all MMO's go through and gameplay decisions made by devs that players don't agree with. You seem to make a big point about scamming, but it's such a minor part of the game and 99% of it in ONE system. It's not toxic behaviour if the game is designed to support it. It might be something you personally don't like about, but you'd be the first I know who wouldn't play because you can without punishment. To each his own.

The difference between Eve and WoW is millions of players. I consider an MMO to be dying when it seems like it's player base won't be able to support it soon, and you'd be surprised how few people that takes. I never said the game was dying, just that the population is dwindling and going steadily downhill. It'll be dying and probably dead in a couple years more than likely though.

Also, there are plenty of people who have quit Eve due to scamming (which means scamming hurts the population, crazy right?), you're either ignorant or feigning it. Myself alone makes your "scamming has 100% nothing to do with the player count" false. It more than likely stops others like me from playing, and it's probably made plenty of noobs quit. And it happens anywhere, not just one system. Anyone using that system to scam is most likely a small time chump anyways, because the only people who should be falling for them there are new players with nearly nothing, any experienced and well off player would avoid it and run larger scams elsewhere, like mr."Scooter McCade".

[Deleted]

Isn't this thread matured out enough?

[OmniSkribe]

I really don't get this meme. I have done both industry and became extraordinarily rich station trading without using a spreadsheet, but I guess you saw it posted by others who have never played the game so it must be true. Pretty sure it was a meme created by actual players because certain types of players loved their spreadsheets but you can do just about any activity, and do it well without ever using one.

But if you are actively involved in industry, trading and PI, without much of a mining or any other "flying" activity most of the time you'll sit on station staring at market screen, no? Or if we speak about mass pvp you don't fly "camera close to ship", you zoom out and use Overview to navigate and pick targets.

The meme comes from the fact that EvE's UI is much more complex and important compared to classic RPG games like GW/WoW.

[Deleted]

The difference between Eve and WoW is millions of players. I consider an MMO to be dying when it seems like it's player base won't be able to support it soon, and you'd be surprised how few people that takes. I never said the game was dying, just that the population is dwindling and going steadily downhill. It'll be dying and probably dead in a couple years more than likely though.

Also, there are plenty of people who have quit Eve due to scamming (which means scamming hurts the population, crazy right?), you're either ignorant or feigning it. Myself alone makes your "scamming has 100% nothing to do with the player count" false. It more than likely stops others like me from playing, and it's probably made plenty of noobs quit. And it happens anywhere, not just one system. Anyone using that system to scam is most likely a small time chump anyways, because the only people who should be falling for them there are new players with nearly nothing, any experienced and well off player would avoid it and run larger scams elsewhere, like mr."Scooter McCade".

well i'd find it "mature" to get scammed, swallow the salt, learn the lesson and keep going. Just imagine IRL someone tells you he sells you a brandnew Ferrari in a garage for 10.000 $. You give him the money, open the garage and its a damn rusty old bicycle in it... Next time you'll just open the garage and see what's inside before you hand over the cash right?

And the experienced players probably are expierenced because they had the same experience as well. and kept going. and became experienced.

[MyndZero]

Eve is not a "next" mmo for WoW players. That is a completely different, and utterly shit game in comparison. There is a reason it never got a massive player base, let alone have mass appeal.

[Schmittay]

The difference between Eve and WoW is millions of players. I consider an MMO to be dying when it seems like it's player base won't be able to support it soon, and you'd be surprised how few people that takes. I never said the game was dying, just that the population is dwindling and going steadily downhill. It'll be dying and probably dead in a couple years more than likely though.

Also, there are plenty of people who have quit Eve due to scamming (which means scamming hurts the population, crazy right?), you're either ignorant or feigning it. Myself alone makes your "scamming has 100% nothing to do with the player count" false. It more than likely stops others like me from playing, and it's probably made plenty of noobs quit. And it happens anywhere, not just one system. Anyone using that system to scam is most likely a small time chump anyways, because the only people who should be falling for them there are new players with nearly nothing, any experienced and well off player would avoid it and run larger scams elsewhere, like mr."Scooter McCade".

WoW is the anomaly here regarding player base, but for simplicity sake, if something starts with 100k and another at 10k, then both drop 10%, it's the same decline regardless if one had more to begin with.

I'm sure people have quit after being scammed in EVE, but I bet you it's a very VERY small amount compared to other reasons of quitting the game.

I mean it's a known part of the game, it fits the EVE universe, people count actually INCREASES when shit like that makes the headlines on gaming websites. Of all the features of the game, that is one that isn't the deciding factor of whether you play. It's part of the appeal, "Space is a cold harsh place" is the motto of EVE. I'd say the biggest saying in EVE is "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", it is ingrained from the get go, and applies to all situations where you put your money in game.

[Swalload]

Didn't you hear? WoW now has more spaceship than EVE.

[Zka]

My EVE-o avatar gives me away... Been there, done that. It's a fantastic game, probably the best MMO ever, but you need a fucking assload of time to accomplish anything. Time is my scarcest resource, so I'm out.

[Deleted]

But if you are actively involved in industry, trading and PI, without much of a mining or any other "flying" activity most of the time you'll sit on station staring at market screen, no? Or if we speak about mass pvp you don't fly "camera close to ship", you zoom out and use Overview to navigate and pick targets.

OR you run missions in highsec with (almost) no UI visible and full zoom on your beautful ship and simply enjoy the scenery. Its not that the overview is mandatory for everything. You can also play WoW just doing WQs, LFD daily and LFR weekly. People well call you a bloody casual or noob but who cares right? when this is your way to play and you enjoy it its all good.

[Schmittay]

Eve is not a "next" mmo for WoW players. That is a completely different, and utterly shit game in comparison. There is a reason it never got a massive player base, let alone have mass appeal.

Because it's a very niche kind of game not designed to appeal to the masses of all age groups like WoW? Doesn't mean it's shit. Grow up people.

[Schmittay]

people who play shit games out of pure salt for WoW often are condescending

Oh the irony here is delicious.

[chubbybunny]

I tried... did the tutorial, came into the real playable space.... Got ganked..... logged off and never looked back as it wiped off my hard drive

[Jazzhands]

well i'd find it "mature" to get scammed, swallow the salt, learn the lesson and keep going. Just imagine IRL someone tells you he sells you a brandnew Ferrari in a garage for 10.000 $. You give him the money, open the garage and its a damn rusty old bicycle in it... Next time you'll just open the garage and see what's inside before you hand over the cash right?

And the experienced players probably are expierenced because they had the same experience as well. and kept going. and became experienced.

No, I wouldn't fall for such a basic scam. I feel like you guys don't realize how deep people go with scams, or are simply ignoring it for the sake of trying to make your game look better. A simple google search will tell you about some of the crazy things people do, including boxing 3+ accounts pretending to be different people, having conversations with yourself to build fake politics or situations in which you pressure people into giving up stuff. Or using alts to infiltrate and harass small alliances, raiding them wherever they are and always having the upper hand because you're your own mole, and basically bullying them into giving up their stuff or else you just won't let them play the game, literally. Or playing a nice guy, gaining trust and status, then holding all their stuff hostage. I'm sure with the thousands of menus and minuscule little things the game has there are hundreds of other in depth scams people do.

Anyone who does this kind of things for kicks is probably some kind of sociopath. Eve is a game for toxic people who want to do toxic things to people who think Eve is a game about playing around in space.

[Wiyld]

Eve is fantastic, Only reason I'm not currently subbed is that I made myself choose just 1 subb to maintain at a time and I still enjoy wow.

Eve is really the ultimate MMO atm. Nothing else compares to it, this might or might not be the right place for this post, but don't just dismiss eve, it really is a great game.

Most people just don't have the combination of free time, social skills and desire to plan that are required to be successful in eve.

[Jazzhands]

WoW is the anomaly here regarding player base, but for simplicity sake, if something starts with 100k and another at 10k, then both drop 10%, it's the same decline regardless if one had more to begin with.

I'm sure people have quit after being scammed in EVE, but I bet you it's a very VERY small amount compared to other reasons of quitting the game.

I mean it's a known part of the game, it fits the EVE universe, people count actually INCREASES when shit like that makes the headlines on gaming websites. Of all the features of the game, that is one that isn't the deciding factor of whether you play. It's part of the appeal, "Space is a cold harsh place" is the motto of EVE. I'd say the biggest saying in EVE is "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", it is ingrained from the get go, and applies to all situations where you put your money in game.

That's fine. Doesn't change the fact that it makes the game feel very toxic. You don't seem to get that. Just because it's suppose to happen doesn't make it any less shitty or scummy.

And you don't seem to get what I mean with population numbers. It's not about percentage decline, it's about the actual number of paying players giving the company enough money to run servers and create content. 100k players is probably enough, hell even 10k is probably enough to keep a game going. A 50% drop for 100k game would still be sustainable, a 50% drop for the 10k game probably wouldn't be.

Eve is probably stagnant from lack of content, which comes from lack of money, which comes from lack of players. Really simple.

[Nihilan]

I think EVE's deceptively slow pace is its greatest flaw. Many people come in expecting and hoping for something like a twitch based wing commander/freelancer style space sim flight model and are immediately turned away by the ploddy click to turn navigation and slow movement. Mechanically, I fully understand why EVE works the way it does, but back when i was playing "why cant i play this with a joystick?" was one of the more common complaints i recall hearing from new players.

Also, to put the player count debate into perspective:
I remember back in 2007ish when hitting 10,000 concurrent players was a celebrated milestone for EVE. Back in 2013 there were about 50k concurrent players on a regular basis. Earlier this year after i logged in after a year or so away from the game the concurrent player count had dropped to about 22k at primetime. I dont know what the count is now but some things like Fozziespace, and the capital changes have apparently had a tremendously negative impact on player activity.

[randprin]

ah, EVE, the game where you are a (very) small cog in the big mean war machine, where psychopathic behavior is rewarded, being a sociopath pays dividends and paranoia is the way of life.

i mean, seriously, EVE is game of thrones, in space, but you're not one of the lanisters, or starks, you're that soldier, 2nd from the left on the 3rd row dying as part of the background. if you get your kicks from being an extra dot on the map, by all means, enjoy yourself, and who knows, you might be that one in a million players who makes it to the CEO position of the top corporation in that big alliance. but if you think about it, in the same amount of investment in both time and effort required to do that today you can get a university degree and a superb job.

in short. EVE isn't a progression from WoW play, it is an absolute niche game aimed at a crowd we're happy isn't destroying the fun environment of other games.

[Wiyld]

ah, EVE, the game where you are a (very) small cog in the big mean war machine, where psychopathic behavior is rewarded, being a sociopath pays dividends and paranoia is the way of life.

i mean, seriously, EVE is game of thrones, in space, but you're not one of the lanisters, or starks, you're that soldier, 2nd from the left on the 3rd row dying as part of the background. if you get your kicks from being an extra dot on the map, by all means, enjoy yourself, and who knows, you might be that one in a million players who makes it to the CEO position of the top corporation in that big alliance. but if you think about it, in the same amount of investment in both time and effort required to do that today you can get a university degree and a superb job.

in short. EVE isn't a progression from WoW play, it is an absolute niche game aimed at a crowd we're happy isn't destroying the fun environment of other games.

Thats....a pretty narrow scope of Eve.


Yes, you can join a major corp, and be a tiny cog in a big machine. Or you can join a smaller/mid sized corp and just enjoy doing whatever aspect of the game you like with people you like to play with.

I isn't much different then wow. You can be a world first, gets sponsored by companies, kinda player. Or you can be one of millions who just play with random guild #3211233434 doing the same pointless shit everyone else is doing.

[Jazzhands]

Thats....a pretty narrow scope of Eve.


Yes, you can join a major corp, and be a tiny cog in a big machine. Or you can join a smaller/mid sized corp and just enjoy doing whatever aspect of the game you like with people you like to play with.

I isn't much different then wow. You can be a world first, gets sponsored by companies, kinda player. Or you can be one of millions who just play with random guild #3211233434 doing the same pointless shit everyone else is doing.

He's not wrong though. I said it in my previous post, but it kind of fits this. Eve is a game for toxic people who want to do toxic things to people who think Eve is a game about messing around in space.

Let's say I am the CEO of one of those big corps. On a whim, I just decide that I don't like X alliance. X alliance did nothing to me, they were just there. They're a smaller alliance of friends who play the game for kicks like you suggest. Maybe they have a shiny ship or two. They might have enough ISK to wipe my ass with. Either way me and the squad headed over there and destroyed all their ships, infiltrated their guild and robbed their meager funds, then flaunted it in their face as we sailed into the nonexistent space sunset. and CCP Games patted us on the back for it.

Yeah, great times.

[chazus]

While I still love EVE (but am not subscribed), a few things.

1) EVE has been out longer than WoW. It's simply aged better, so it's not like it's anything new.
2) The "F2P" mode is barely playable. I've tried a few times and its so crippled that you can't really do much useful.
3) The learning curve is brutal once you get out of your frigate diapers
4) A lot of gamers do not enjoy the idea of "If you lose it, its gone". Its just not a genre as many people enjoy.
5) It is not a place for nice people. Or friendly people.