KJ Nerfs

[Achilles55]

I'm starting to wonder if you're both just thickheaded or what.

You're on myhic kj and you're saying there are HC raiders higher il than you. Now, assuming its on even ground (4p set/optimized stats/legendaries), WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? THAT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY LUCKY, HELLO!

Because ON AVERAGE even a retarded kid understands that someone doing just hc ON AVERAGE will have a lower level than someone doing mythic AND hc. OF COURSE, THIS DOESNT COUNT LUCK. If you are VERY LUCKY you could be even higher il just by doing only TOS normal and gettin all 955 than someone who is 9/9m and gettin "only" 935-940s.

But the POINT of the argument here is: IS IT LAUGHABLE (like someone said) to get 940 just by doing hc and with the proper 4p and everything in order? NO, IT IS NOT. PERIOD.

Are you mad? You seem mad. I'm sorry that you're upset about being proven wrong but it's really not a bug deal. It's perfectly reasonable to be 940+ and optimized without raiding mythic. This has been proven by multiple armouries of optimized 940 players who have never done mythic. Relax bro it's going to be okay.

[Tradu]

The nerfs are just... weird. They're not addressing the things that actually cause problems on either fight, including not addressing the tank comp issues on KJ(where Guardian and DK are way better than any other tank thanks to their utility). The DPS add HP nerf on KJ seems like it'll be more of an annoyance than a help, because now you potentially run into issues with them dying too fast. The reduced healing requirement just seems odd, it wasn't a problem in the first place. On Avatar... the Marks? Really? That's what they came up with? Pretty sure that's the only mechanic that causes no problems at all.

[david0925]

It's evident that they don't really want to nerf the fight where it counts (lol soaks) so they're just making big number changes to the relatively minor mechanics to make them look like a big deal. They really aren't.

the biggest hurtle is still soaking and getting knocked off, although I really don't know if you can nerf the fight without butchering the mechanics completely for these two cases.

[Tradu]

It's evident that they don't really want to nerf the fight where it counts (lol soaks) so they're just making big number changes to the relatively minor mechanics to make them look like a big deal. They really aren't.

the biggest hurtle is still soaking and getting knocked off, although I really don't know if you can nerf the fight without butchering the mechanics completely for these two cases.

Make the Singularities take longer to explode(so people can get in position more easily, especially without Stampeding Roar)/knock back less/cut entire Singularities from the fight and if you want to nerf soaks on KJ, make missing one not an instant wipe(by heavily nerfing the DoT/impact damage of the raidwide hit)

[david0925]

Make the Singularities take longer to explode(so people can get in position more easily, especially without Stampeding Roar)/knock back less and if you want to nerf soaks on KJ, make missing one not an instant wipe(by heavily nerfing the DoT/impact damage of the raidwide hit)

Right, and that basically goes to the "butcher the fight" for me.
For example, if you make it so the center orb doesn't knock you off at all if you're close enough to it (like heroic), then that mechanic basically doesn't exist as you don't really even care about when to dispell the tank.

Armageddon soaks not one shotting basically has the same effect, basically killing the mechanic (not that any of us really would mind that)

[Deleted]

what are you talking about, the raid is the patch. We got 6 weeks left.

Look back at legion, raids come after the patch, meaning the patch comes first and the raid launch is a few week after (for the 7.x.x patches that is).

[Tradu]

I'm starting to wonder if you're both just thickheaded or what.

You're on myhic kj and you're saying there are HC raiders higher il than you. Now, assuming its on even ground (4p set/optimized stats/legendaries), WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? THAT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY LUCKY, HELLO!

Because ON AVERAGE even a retarded kid understands that someone doing just hc ON AVERAGE will have a lower level than someone doing mythic AND hc. OF COURSE, THIS DOESNT COUNT LUCK. If you are VERY LUCKY you could be even higher il just by doing only TOS normal and gettin all 955 than someone who is 9/9m and gettin "only" 935-940s.

But the POINT of the argument here is: IS IT LAUGHABLE (like someone said) to get 940 just by doing hc and with the proper 4p and everything in order? NO, IT IS NOT. PERIOD.

Some people obviously are very lucky and get there (or almost get there) but no one with a clue (hint: clue) would pretend thats actually easy to get for everyone. Most people who have been doing everything they can every week and cleared tos hc several times are around 935, thats achievable on average. 940 you need a lot of luck.

I have a bunch of alts that are 935+, most with 4set, just from heroic ToS/weekly M+. Getting high ilevel, decently optimized gear is absurdly easy, and being 940+ from raiding heroic weekly(unlike my alts which do ToS every 3-4 weeks each) and doing weekly M+ seems completely within the realm of possibility. I'd say it's quite likely, even.

- - - Updated - - -

Right, and that basically goes to the "butcher the fight" for me.
For example, if you make it so the center orb doesn't knock you off at all if you're close enough to it (like heroic), then that mechanic basically doesn't exist as you don't really even care about when to dispell the tank.

Armageddon soaks not one shotting basically has the same effect, basically killing the mechanic (not that any of us really would mind that)

Yeah, which basically shows how poorly designed the fights really are, when there isn't really anything relevant that can be nerfed, because all the things that cause wipes are binary checks(and making them not binary essentially guts the fight). Avatar at least has things that can be tuned(energy generation rate on the boss, Unbound Chaos damage, Rupturing Realities damage, dagger damage/slow, puddle shrinking rate, tornado damage), but they refuse to tune them.

[Deleted]

the avatar nerf was actually a pretty good one

the fight is still challenging but you dont need that many immunity classes for dark marks anymore

he was already pretty easy with the huge nerfs a couple weeks back

mistress is already pretty trivial(you dont even need to pick up the fish anymore really) and maiden was a fucking joke from week one

If your guild has proper dps you only need to soak 2 sets of marks, and our guild rarely ever immuned them, unless there weren't enough ppl to soak it. Neither of the mechanics on Avatar are even remotely hard, they just require you to execute them well and that's why a lot of guilds are stuck, they simply do not have any execution to pull off the kill unless they get extremely lucky and then wipe for a full reset the next week on their rekill.

KJ is the exact same thing, it's not a very hard fight, it just requires good execution. Any guild that doesn't have execution will not kill M KJ even if they nerf his health by 20%.

[Deleted]

I have a bunch of alts that are 935+, most with 4set, just from heroic ToS/weekly M+. Getting high ilevel, decently optimized gear is absurdly easy, and being 940+ from raiding heroic weekly(unlike my alts which do ToS every 3-4 weeks each) and doing weekly M+ seems completely within the realm of possibility. I'd say it's quite likely, even.

6x hc clears, this one is 930.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/it-it/ch...n/tradushuffle

this one has also 2 mythic kills, 936. And btw: 935 and 940 int/mastery trinkets (sure, now someone will say its easy to get, ive been gettin 1 trinket at least PER day on 4 alts, so 4 per day, since 7.3 and never got a 940 one with the right stats).

https://worldofwarcraft.com/it-it/ch...n/monkashuffle

Curious about your 940s with optimized gears with just HC. Some of you keep saying its a joke yet still have to see ONE with the right gear 4p and legendaries. Sorry, its not easy.

[shaunika123]

If your guild has proper dps you only need to soak 2 sets of marks, and our guild rarely ever immuned them, unless there weren't enough ppl to soak it. Neither of the mechanics on Avatar are even remotely hard, they just require you to execute them well and that's why a lot of guilds are stuck, they simply do not have any execution to pull off the kill unless they get extremely lucky and then wipe for a full reset the next week on their rekill.

KJ is the exact same thing, it's not a very hard fight, it just requires good execution. Any guild that doesn't have execution will not kill M KJ even if they nerf his health by 20%.

even if you got proper dps, first kills tend to be chaotic, a lot of them will go to p2 with 1-3 dead people, and the less DM dmg helps a lot there

[Tradu]

6x hc clears, this one is 930.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/it-it/ch...n/tradushuffle

this one has also 2 mythic kills, 936. And btw: 935 and 940 int/mastery trinkets (sure, now someone will say its easy to get, ive been gettin 1 trinket at least PER day on 4 alts since 7.3 and never got a 940 one with the right stats).

https://worldofwarcraft.com/it-it/ch...n/monkashuffle

Curious about your 940s with optimized gears with just HC. Some of you keep saying its a joke yet still have to see ONE with the right gear 4p and legendaries.

2 mythic kills tonight, got 1 minor upgrade. My druid is one of my unluckiest characters. I didn't say I had 940 characters just from heroic, because I don't do heroic on every character every week. But having a shaman with BiS legendaries, 4set and ~935ilevel, a DK with BiS legendaries, 4set(which I can't use at the same time as those legendaries on ST) and ~935 ilevel, a priest with shit legendaries, 4set and ~935 ilevel, a lock with BiS legendaries, 4set, 930 ilevel(with 860 Arcano), a paladin with 4set, pretty good legendaries and ~935 ilevel as well as every other class at ~930 ilevel just from weekly M+/H ToS every 3-4 weeks doesn't seem like it's particularly hard to get that kind of gear, so somebody who has been doing it every week should be a bit higher than my characters.
You're right about my shaman being lucky with relinquished trinkets, but I have heroic ToS trinkets to replace both(I think), so it's not like it'd be that much lower.

[Deleted]

2 mythic kills tonight, got 1 minor upgrade. My druid is one of my unluckiest characters. I didn't say I had 940 characters just from heroic, because I don't do heroic on every character every week. But having a shaman with BiS legendaries, 4set and ~935ilevel, a DK with BiS legendaries, 4set(which I can't use at the same time as those legendaries on ST) and ~935 ilevel, a priest with shit legendaries, 4set and ~935 ilevel, a lock with BiS legendaries, 4set, 930 ilevel(with 860 Arcano), a paladin with 4set, pretty good legendaries and ~935 ilevel as well as every other class at ~930 ilevel just from weekly M+/H ToS every 3-4 weeks doesn't seem like it's particularly hard to get that kind of gear, so somebody who has been doing it every week should be a bit higher than my characters.

Man, if you've been reading this thread i said 935 is fine. From personal experience, 935 on average if you work your ass off is doable with just hc and m+. What some of you (well, dunno about you, for sure the others 2 i replied to earlier) dont seem to understand is that between 935 and 940 its just 5il but its a HUGE difference when it comes to just hc. Gettin those 5 extra il is not laughable at all.
935 on average if you did everyrhing in the last 3 months sure, its doable. 940 you need a whole lot of luck. Of course the longer, the easier, since we have had 7 chests 935 alrdy and every week its one more chance of a 935+ piece, but AT THIS POINT anyone saying that having 940 with just hc is easy is clueless.

[Achilles55]

Man, if you've been reading this thread i said 935 is fine. From personal experience, 935 on average if you work your ass off is doable with just hc and m+. What some of you (well, dunno about you, for sure the others 2 i replied to earlier) dont seem to understand is that between 935 and 940 its just 5il but its a HUGE difference when it comes to just hc. Gettin those 5 extra il is not laughable at all.
935 on average if you did everyrhing in the last 3 months sure, its doable. 940 you need a whole lot of luck. Of course the longer, the easier, since we have had 7 chests 935 alrdy and every week its one more chance of a 935+ piece, but AT THIS POINT anyone saying that having 940 with just hc is easy is clueless.

lol so triggered and ignoring the numerous people who pointed out the fact that they're 940, optimized, and haven't touched mythic. The level of ignorance here is incredible. You should send me more pm's full of rage and personal insults. It's very amusing.

[Tradu]

Man, if you've been reading this thread i said 935 is fine. From personal experience, 935 on average if you work your ass off is doable with just hc and m+. What some of you (well, dunno about you, for sure the others 2 i replied to earlier) dont seem to understand is that between 935 and 940 its just 5il but its a HUGE difference when it comes to just hc. Gettin those 5 extra il is not laughable at all.
935 on average if you did everyrhing in the last 3 months sure, its doable. 940 you need a whole lot of luck.

Except you clearly don't have to "work your ass off" for 935 considering how many characters I have around that level without doing everything every week, and it's not just that I'm super lucky. And it really isn't that hard to get those last 5 ilevels to 940 if you raid heroic every week and do weekly M+. If we take my paladin as an example, I have 2 logged heroic clears, so let's call it 3 if I forgot to log once(notice that's nowhere near 3 full months), seeing as armory links all 404 for me so I can't check. 933 equipped with an 885 Arcanocrystal, 900 tier chest, 900 tier gloves dragging it down, and apart from the neck no particularly impressive extra rolled gear(if you want to count the boots, I had 935 ones from weekly chest before, so it's not a huge increase). You could easily add an average of ~7 ilevels to every piece from just raiding heroic a bit more.

[Achilles55]

Except you clearly don't have to "work your ass off" for 935 considering how many characters I have around that level without doing everything every week, and it's not just that I'm super lucky. And it really isn't that hard to get those last 5 ilevels to 940 if you raid heroic every week and do weekly M+. If we take my paladin as an example, I have 2 logged heroic clears, so let's call it 3 if I forgot to log once(notice that's nowhere near 3 full months), seeing as armory links all 404 for me so I can't check. 933 equipped with an 885 Arcanocrystal, 900 tier chest, 900 tier gloves dragging it down, and apart from the neck no particularly impressive extra rolled gear. You could easily add an average of ~7 ilevels to every piece from just raiding heroic a bit more.

This! Thank you for being a voice of reason. This guy has been raging because I've pointed it (with evidence) that you can be 940, and very well optimized without ever doing mythic. Obviously mythic will increase your chances but it's not that unreasonable to achieve it without mythic. As I pointed out, I'm 943, 940 equipped with all 3 bis relics and amazing trinkets and have never touched mythic. I think gearing in legion is easier than it's ever been in wow. Personally I don't like wf/tf and think mythic and high M+ should drop the highest IL of gear but that wasn't the current discussion.

[Myztikrice]

This guy has been raging because I've pointed it (with evidence) that you can be 940, and very well optimized without ever doing mythic. Obviously mythic will increase your chances but it's not that unreasonable to achieve it without mythic.

Because ON AVERAGE even a retarded kid understands that someone doing just hc ON AVERAGE will have a lower level than someone doing mythic AND hc. OF COURSE, THIS DOESNT COUNT LUCK. If you are VERY LUCKY you could be even higher il just by doing only TOS normal and gettin all 955 than someone who is 9/9m and gettin "only" 935-940s.

But the POINT of the argument here is: IS IT LAUGHABLE (like someone said) to get 940 just by doing hc and with the proper 4p and everything in order? NO, IT IS NOT. PERIOD.

He understands. You're just too stupid to see it. No one is saying it's not possible, he's saying it's not likely.

[Achilles55]

He understands. You're just too stupid to see it. No one is saying it's not possible, he's saying it's not likely.

You calling anyone stupid is ironic. You obviously didn't read the entire thread or just have poor comprehension skills, probably the latter. First of all no one said 940 fully optimized was laughable. The quote was that simply getting to 940 is laughable in terms of the amount of effort required (which it is). Secondly I never once implied that he thought it was impossible (poor reading comprehension again...it's okay). Lastly you're missing the entire point of the argument which was basically him saying you have to be insanely lucky to be optimized at 940+ without mythic raiding. That statement is false as 4+ people provided examples of the contrary. Please pay attention and seek help if you need assistance in understanding the information in front of you before calling others stupid.

[Deleted]

Except you clearly don't have to "work your ass off" for 935 considering how many characters I have around that level without doing everything every week, and it's not just that I'm super lucky. And it really isn't that hard to get those last 5 ilevels to 940 if you raid heroic every week and do weekly M+. If we take my paladin as an example, I have 2 logged heroic clears, so let's call it 3 if I forgot to log once(notice that's nowhere near 3 full months), seeing as armory links all 404 for me so I can't check. 933 equipped with an 885 Arcanocrystal, 900 tier chest, 900 tier gloves dragging it down, and apart from the neck no particularly impressive extra rolled gear(if you want to count the boots, I had 935 ones from weekly chest before, so it's not a huge increase). You could easily add an average of ~7 ilevels to every piece from just raiding heroic a bit more.

Lets not pretend i'm clueless. On your shaman you have a 935 and 940 mastery trinkets that are very good. As I said, Ive done argus every day since the opening with three alts (my shadow main 947 equipped now, my lock 938, my mage 935), which means ive gotten a relinquished piece per alt daily, and ive NEVER EVER gotten a 940 trinket so good. Now MAYBE i'm unlucky (but I see the ppl in my guild and they havent been luckier than me) but dont tell me you havent done argus every day on your shaman, because if you tell me you havent and just did argus 1/2 times per week and yet you got a 935 and 940 that are almost BIS trinkets (at that level) well yes, you are freaking lucky no questions asked and thats exactly what we are pointing out. You need to be very lucky.
And to be clear, "working your ass off" i mean doing every week hc/weekly m+/argus almost every day for the chance of a tf relinq good piece. I dont mean running 10 m+ every day.
As for your paladin, its far from being optimized. A lot of pieces have wrong stats, i mean look at that versatility trinket 915, or haste /vers neck 935. OF COURSE if you equip everything just for the il, you can get high il, but thats not the point. What we said is that if you actually care about stats, optimize them like you do for raiding, and 4p tier, gettin to 940 with just HC atm is NOT easy at all and you need to be very lucky.

I really dont see how some of you can even argue about it (unless you're like the one above im ignoring now), just look at all the mythic KJ new kills, the average itemlevel of the raid is between 939 and 942. And we're talking about guilds doing KJ thus having in farm most bosses for months. IF gettin to 940 with just hc was so easy as some of you think, those guilds would be killing KJ at 950 now.

The fact they are killing KJ mythic with a raid of average 940 PROVES that if you are 940 with just HC you are GOD DAMN FUCKING LUCKY. If some of you dont understand this simple concept then I really feel sorry. I hope some of you dont have jobs math/stats related because you'd be horrible doing it (not talking about you man, mostly the 2 other clowns).

PS when your guild killed KJ 10 days ago, your raid IL was 941.16... so yer telling me it "isnt that hard" to get those 5 levels to 940 by just doing hc, yet your raid was 941 and had FULL geared mythic players. if its so easy like you say, your raid should have been much higher! but guess what, it wasnt. and so wasnt mine, when we killed it we had half raid betweem 937 and 940 and that was a week ago. and you know why? because even if are 9/9 mythic and have been farming TOS mythic for months its not that easy to get much past 940. those are undeniable facts, and you just have to check all latest KJ kills to see its rare a raid with an IL much higher than 940.
i really wonder if some of you realize that what you're saying its all theory 0 practice. As i said, in theory you can be 955 with .

[Varolyn]

I'm at 937 ilvl doing just heroic and the weekly +10. Yes, I have been lucky by getting good loot from the cache's but there are other people in my guild with less luck at 930-935 ilvl and titanforging isn't as rare as you may think. There is also the issue of players not getting many upgrades in Mythic because of titanforging, and of course people who have been doing mythic for a while now but not getting many upgrades since, thus heroic raiders able to catch up. It really isn't out of the question for someone who only does heroic + the weekly 10 to be able to get 940 ilvl.

[MrExcelion]

Might see some extra last minute nerfs because theyre nerfing some T20 bonuses in the 7.3.2 build.