Mythic KJ Help

[david0925]

Are guilds sac'ing one of the orb targets in phase 1 (the orbs where you have to run and drop them while everyone dodges in the middle). If so, why? If not, why not?

It seems like it's really common in phase 2, but about 50/50 phase 1.

You don't spawn bullet hell if you die and rez at the correct time

[Chewtoy]

You don't spawn bullet hell if you die and rez at the correct time

Yes, I know that they need to stay dead until after their add dies (is it 5 seconds after or just immediately when it dies?)

I'm more curious as to the discussion/thought process as to how guilds determined whether or not they were going to sac someone for the first group in phase 1 (phase 2 it seems like almost everyone does at least one and then ankh totems back up). We were having a discussion around it last night and I was just curious as to how guilds decided on one or the other, or if they tried it one way and then swapped to the other method later on.

To demonstrate
No sacs - https://youtu.be/BfGg44-pjoY?t=44
Vs sac one to split orbs - https://youtu.be/l777CkzVrsw?t=40

[Dracodraco]

Yes, I know that they need to stay dead until after their add dies (is it 5 seconds after or just immediately when it dies?)

I'm more curious as to the discussion/thought process as to how guilds determined whether or not they were going to sac someone for the first group in phase 1 (phase 2 it seems like almost everyone does at least one and then ankh totems back up). We were having a discussion around it last night and I was just curious as to how guilds decided on one or the other, or if they tried it one way and then swapped to the other method later on.

To demonstrate
No sacs - https://youtu.be/BfGg44-pjoY?t=44
Vs sac one to split orbs - https://youtu.be/l777CkzVrsw?t=40

Reasoning to do it for us: "Why wouldn't we. It's easier to dodge 2x waves than 3x and ankh totem comes back up again for second set. It costs us nothing".

Likewise, classes like Rogues with cheat death and mages with cauterize needs to learn to do funky stuff to get the totem ress; Our rogues would occasionally survive 3 hits of fel claws, then get massive overkilled on fourth due to their cheat deaths etc, which obviously was an issue (don't proc cheat death first, proc it second, 85% reduc on third, die fourth to massive overkill AKA no totem). They had to unequip their weapons putting them at 3M Hp, so that they can CD first, live second with 85% reduc, then die to third WITH FEINT to avoid the massive overkill on their 3M healthpool. Mages did something similiar with ice barrier (keeping their weapons on). It's good to learn this stuff before you're at the end of P2 and then wipe cos "wait why didn't I die?".

[Chewtoy]

(don't proc cheat death first, proc it second, 85% reduc on third, die fourth to massive overkill AKA no totem).

Massive overkill doesn't let you use totem, or did it time out by the 4th swipe?

[Effinhunter]

With Warcraft logs, is there an easy way to get a breakdown of who is dying to being knocked off? On this boss, the player just "dies", so I can't just look for a damage taken breakdown with an ability, and the source is not listed on the Deaths breakdown. If I look at the death recap for a player when this happens, I can see the hit by Rupturing Singularity. So I know this is happening by inspecting the player's timeline, but it would be helpful to be able to see all deaths that happened within say 2 seconds of a Rupturing Singularity. Is that kind of breakdown possible on this fight?

Edit: For now, I'm just subtracting the attributable deaths from the actual deaths with a cutoff of 4. It seems to work ok, but is just more labor intensive.

[Dracodraco]

Massive overkill doesn't let you use totem, or did it time out by the 4th swipe?

Massive overkill means the totem won't activate. The only ability that works through a massive overkill is Cheat Death from a rogue (where a massive overkill will start to eat into the rogue's own healthpool - the CD is actually just an absorb shield for 2x the rogues health. This is why they can soak the big armageddons with Cheat death:

34M Hit.
*0.5 cos of feint = 17M.
*0.75 cos of armor = 12.75.
5M HP * 2 = 10M absorb shield from cheat death.
Rogue with 5M Hp ends up with ~45% hp after soaking a big armageddon, as it eats up the 10M absorb and 2.75M of the rogue's health.)

But any other "cheats death" mechanic will simply kill you after you go above double your healthpool (ardent defender, GS, ress totem).

[Vathral2]

Massive overkill means the totem won't activate. The only ability that works through a massive overkill is Cheat Death from a rogue (where a massive overkill will start to eat into the rogue's own healthpool - the CD is actually just an absorb shield for 2x the rogues health. This is why they can soak the big armageddons with Cheat death:

34M Hit.
*0.5 cos of feint = 17M.
*0.75 cos of armor = 12.75.
5M HP * 2 = 10M absorb shield from cheat death.
Rogue with 5M Hp ends up with ~45% hp after soaking a big armageddon, as it eats up the 10M absorb and 2.75M of the rogue's health.)

But any other "cheats death" mechanic will simply kill you after you go above double your healthpool (ardent defender, GS, ress totem).

We fixed the issue for our rogues by using ironbark on them as they were dying, reduced the hit low enough for the totem to work since our tanks never called for it during that point. Your suggestions and input have been fantastic btw draco throughout these threads, much appreciated.

[Elbob]

Massive overkill doesn't let you use totem, or did it time out by the 4th swipe?

you can just have your rogue cancel aura the cheat death and they die on the third and can use the totem no externals (other then the res totem) needed

[Tojara]

Yup just have your rogues cancel aura cheat death. We noticed this early in our progression where sometimes they would live through 4 or even 5 swipes depending on the timing of cheat death. Simple cancel aura fixes it, and they normally die with two hits now.

[Dracodraco]

If you can cancel it, I guess our rogues need an earful - they were claiming that they couldn't click off the aura, so never tried making a macro to streamline it (rogue is one of the classes I don't play and probably won't melee doesn't suit me well, pretty much gotta take what I'm told at face-value).

And @Vathral2 , happy to be of use . This tier sucks absolutely balls, the more that can be done to ease it for people, the better. It looks like it'll be the first tier since I started raiding in ICC that my hunter won't complete before it becomes "old content", as I play our second guardian/third tank for KJ. Kind of a bummer.

[osa]

With Warcraft logs, is there an easy way to get a breakdown of who is dying to being knocked off? On this boss, the player just "dies", so I can't just look for a damage taken breakdown with an ability, and the source is not listed on the Deaths breakdown. If I look at the death recap for a player when this happens, I can see the hit by Rupturing Singularity. So I know this is happening by inspecting the player's timeline, but it would be helpful to be able to see all deaths that happened within say 2 seconds of a Rupturing Singularity. Is that kind of breakdown possible on this fight?

Edit: For now, I'm just subtracting the attributable deaths from the actual deaths with a cutoff of 4. It seems to work ok, but is just more labor intensive.

Death without Killing Blow = death from falling.

If you only want to see lines with players that died from falling you can use filter expression such as:

target.type="player" and type="death" and not in range from target.type="player" and overkill>0 to type="death" group by target end

It will show deaths without overkill (deaths without normal damage that lowers your hp to 0) which are deaths from falling and other similar mechanics.

Sample log from wcl:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...nd&view=events

All deaths:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2)&view=events

[Shaymin]

So.. how do you guys kill your members with the adds?

We are killing one in P1 with felclaws that are on the boss.. but in P2 there seems to be a window between the add spawn and another felclaws coming up.. Jumping down the plat doesnt kinda work for us (the shaman totem wont work, prob. cuz of no range to the bottom??)..

Any tips welcomed. Ty.

[Tojara]

You still have time. The felclaws that happens in P2 happens like ~8 seconds after the adds spawn. As long as you literally don't explode the rear add, there is more than enough time to die to felclaws. Additionally you can just run into orbs and kill yourself that way as well.

[Skroe]

So I'm looking for some perspectives / rules of thumb for the Pillars in Phase 3.
My guild killed Mythic KJ already. I'm the raid leader and light layer. I laid light son the kill. I can do the 3, 4 and 5 set of pillar pretty easy. The set of 6 though? I'd say my success rate is *maybe* 50% and we probably got a little lucky on the kill. That's not nearly good enough in my book. I'd like it to be 90+% and much more of a sure bet. The pillars are one of the most obnoxious and deeply cynical mechanics I've ever done.

These are my general rules. How do these look? Does anyone else have anything comparable?

- Never, ever try to lay lights from the middle. Do it zoomed out from the very outside edge of a side.
- If the rift is along a side, be perpendicular to it, and within 30 yards of the boss who should be towards the middle.
- If the rift is in a corner, have the raid, and the boss, near a side further away from the rift. (i.e. rift is north-east, raid is central-south, mark layer is central-south along the edge).
- Always lay the light on the side of less density. That is to say, if when looking at the pillars. there are 4 on the left and 3 on the right, the safest spot is somewhere on the right.
- Don't lay a light more than 30 yards away as even with the line weak aura, you can't lay it accurately.


Anyone got any ideas? I just need to make it more reliable than it is.

[Squishei]

I find the easiest way is:

- Start directly opposite the rift (since the rift takes up space) at an edge
- Find a safe column (left/right) since it's easy to find since you can see an entire column in one look (since you're at the edge)
- Starting from the edge, move forward until you find a safe row. This one takes longer since you have to look both directions with the camera to check if there's an obelisk left and right.

Every person is going to be different and you're going to have to find the best way to do it for you through practice.

[david0925]

So I'm looking for some perspectives / rules of thumb for the Pillars in Phase 3.
My guild killed Mythic KJ already. I'm the raid leader and light layer. I laid light son the kill. I can do the 3, 4 and 5 set of pillar pretty easy. The set of 6 though? I'd say my success rate is *maybe* 50% and we probably got a little lucky on the kill. That's not nearly good enough in my book. I'd like it to be 90+% and much more of a sure bet. The pillars are one of the most obnoxious and deeply cynical mechanics I've ever done.

These are my general rules. How do these look? Does anyone else have anything comparable?

- Never, ever try to lay lights from the middle. Do it zoomed out from the very outside edge of a side.
- If the rift is along a side, be perpendicular to it, and within 30 yards of the boss who should be towards the middle.
- If the rift is in a corner, have the raid, and the boss, near a side further away from the rift. (i.e. rift is north-east, raid is central-south, mark layer is central-south along the edge).
- Always lay the light on the side of less density. That is to say, if when looking at the pillars. there are 4 on the left and 3 on the right, the safest spot is somewhere on the right.
- Don't lay a light more than 30 yards away as even with the line weak aura, you can't lay it accurately.


Anyone got any ideas? I just need to make it more reliable than it is.

I assume by the line WA, you mean this?

https://wago.io/SJMTUPR9W

I'm still not very sure about how to use this properly. I assume you overlay your screen with an Obelisk and the quadrants show you which one is safe?

[kaib]

how does the shadowsoul add spawn work? is that based on where players are or based on where KJ is when the intermission starts? Illidan's spawn spot is completely random but it's only 3 possible spawn spots?

[Deleted]

how does the shadowsoul add spawn work? is that based on where players are or based on where KJ is when the intermission starts? Illidan's spawn spot is completely random but it's only 3 possible spawn spots?

Shadowsouls and Illidan spawn are both based on KJs position. Thats why before you push him you want to position him in the top right corner where the first singularity will always spawn.

[Dracodraco]

Shadowsouls and Illidan spawn are both based on KJs position. Thats why before you push him you want to position him in the top right corner where the first singularity will always spawn.

People tend to do bottom-right if they don't have a blood DK (because that means you can't really guarantee a 1-ball push every time). Doing so means first ball is immuned by everyone (bar the few who literally can't, like dps DKs and non-goblin priests), and the entire raid is in position for the second one already as everyone's stood down there killing shadowsouls.

The alternative is that sure, you get to dps the shadowsouls for the first ball, but then people have to scramble to get in position for the second one, leaving behind low-HP shadowsouls to get to safety. During early progress in the phase where you're more concerned with staying alive, that's not really great.

[Chewtoy]

So, with the removal of 1 of the large Armageddon soaks....how should the approach change?

You could simply keep doing 3 tank to allow 1 tank to always soak, that frees up the immunity DPS to just focus on dps and other soaks.

You could move to two tanks, probably still easier to immunity, but gain a DPS. Maybe not lust P1, and save it for 2 and try to beat 2nd dps adds entirely.

You could move to two tanks, and instead bring 5 heals to make healing overlap on healing adds and 2nd set of fire adds much more manageable.

Thoughts? @Dracodraco care to weigh in?

What seems to be killing us the most really isn't nerfed here. We still suck at singularity knock back in the intermission. We still will miss soaks despite trying FFA and assigning quadrants to watch as a priority. We still have random derps, but usually when we get to the 2nd set of dps adds we kill the first one and just fall over.

If we sit a tank we may be losing our GG which kinda negates the benefit. We could sit me, prot warrior, and either two tank with DK Druid, or three tank with hunter alt druid, druid, and DK as well.