How powerful do you guys think/want Azshara and N'zoth's army to be?

[Deleted]

There are tons of intelligent demons, most of them had their own civilizations before the Legion conquered them. One of their most intelligent was even leading the latest invasion. Yet the writing has us believe Kil'jaeden couldn't come up with the most basic tactics, you would expect him and other demons to have picked up a thing or two after 25 000 years of near constant battle.

Everyone keeps bringing up the "they are endless and overconfident, they always win, etc,..." Problem with that reasoning is that Sargeras has a deadline and would make sure that his 2nd in commands would know about this deadline as well. While they can win with pure numbers, they aren't actually endless, the demons that die still need to recover, meaning they waste valuable man power. This is especially important conscidering they are for some idiotic reason invading other places at the same time, which is another point that I will come back to. So why is it then that Kil'jaeden isn't focusing all his troops on key targets, one by one? The invasion starts well with a trap, but after that they send their armies all over Azeroth, meaning they aren't even taking advantage of their numbers. The way their advantage should be utilized is by sending everyone to the same location, destroy it and simply move to the next. This would be both effective, fast and morally devastating to your enemy.

Which brings me to the next point: They are attacking multiple planets, at the same time. The Germans did the same during WW2 but Hitler at least had a reason to pre-emptivly invade Russia, he knew Stalin would eventually attack him and Hitler was paranoid. The Legion however has no reason to fight on multiple fronts.

1) None of the planets they invade even know about the Legion and will never do a pre-emptive strike, nor would prepare for such an attack.
2) Azeroth is literally the only planet that is a threat to the universe, if we have to believe Eonar saying Azeroth being the last Titan. Yet they aren't putting everything towards destroying it? There isn't even a reason for the Legion to be concerned about any other planet since they don't have world souls and thus wouldn't be able to birth a void titan anyway.
3) It's really not efficient and just stupid.

There are more points to be made for why the Legion has been written horribly, but I shall make one more.

The Dark Pantheon.
If Sargeras is making this, why even invade Azeroth before you have your "I win button.". Overconfidence is not a reason, otherwise he wouldn't even have a reason to make the Dark Pantheon if he thinks he can defeat Azeroth, the strongest planet he has tried to conquer, without them anyway. Keep in mind, time moves 30x slower (maybe even slower in some places), giving the Legion 30x more time to prepare for everything. It's even possible there are spaces where time moves even slower than that!



It just isn't believable that an army with all these advantages and highly intelligent beings would lose against a primitive world that is split between 2 factions at constant war. The only reason we win is because the writers want us to, and not even in a believable way.

Let's compare WoW: Legion against X-com 1 and 2

X-com has the same scenario, Aliens are on your planet, they are stronger and more advanced. But when you play that game, even though you are fighting against impossible odds, you believe you can win. You use guerilla warfare to take down their bases and steal alien technology. It's believable warfare. The aliens aren't dumb either.

WoW: Legion however has given the Legion so much power over us, that the only way for us to win is for the legion to not use any of those advantages. Worst part is that Azeroth's forces aren't using tactics either nor do they have anything that the Legion wouldn't have. Yet somehow we can kill an unlimited amount of demons fast enough to get through a portal to Argus, not only that, but we also kill Kil'jaeden WHILE doing this, and in the next raid we will have taken down the Legion as we know it. All this has happened in 1(?) year since the start of the invasion.
And artifacts is not a good excuse either, the demons can MAKE artifacts (frostmourne) and some of our artifacts are just normal weapons (Alleria's bow) or slightly powerful weapons (The Doomhammer, which never took down armies.).

There is just too much bullshit going on to conscider the Legion to be well written.



I apologize for the wall of text and sorry for any unclearness since english isn't my mother tongue.

That's a lot of good points. Hopefully Blizzard doesn't screw up the naga and old god armies over as much.

There has been, for some reason, a lot of positive feedback about Legion lore and writing however, so I'm afraid Blizzard will just continue not caring as it works out for them eitherway. Personally I'm not holding my breath for a more sensible story next expansion.

[Dreknar20]

I mean I could go on and on with examples but the reason they feel incompetent is them having every possible advantage on us yet they still fail at everything.

that's kinda the whole point of these cartoon/fantasy settings

The antagonist is almost always holds the advantage. The more overwhelming they are the better.
Protagonists don't win cause of being stronger in some way but because of "heroics"

Its not meant to be a "whoa that was a tough victory" its supposed to be "this should not even be possible, how the fuck did you even win, you are such a uber hero for achieveing the impossible"

Take Star Wars. Which sounds more heroic?
A Galactic Empire defeating a rebel/terrorist group or a rebel/terrorist group triumphing against a Galactic Empire?

[Dagoth Ur]

that's kinda the whole point of these cartoon/fantasy settings

The antagonist is almost always holds the advantage. The more overwhelming they are the better.
Protagonists don't win cause of being stronger in some way but because of "heroics"

Its not meant to be a "whoa that was a tough victory" its supposed to be "this should not even be possible, how the fuck did you even win, you are such a uber hero for achieveing the impossible"

Take Star Wars. Which sounds more heroic?
A Galactic Empire defeating a rebel/terrorist group or a rebel/terrorist group triumphing against a Galactic Empire?

Yeah but with Burning Legion it's taken to unbelievable levels of ridiculousness which are kinda hard to swallow.

Us winning is not the problem because in the end of the day we have to for game continuity purposes.
Problem is it's done in a way that makes villains feel incompetent and stupid with basically zero suspense.

We're supposed to believe that this giant inter galactic army which basically has god mode on with immortality and endless supply of troops, who conquered majority of known universe successfully so far, basically forgets to use the basic military tactics and strategy as soon as they face playable characters and can't advance further from one tiny island that is basically the ground zero of the invasion in the first place.

That's not how they were portrayed before where they managed to destroy half of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and Night elves had to basically give up their immortality to drive them off.

@Valithra wrote it in much more detail and has made some pretty good points in the post above.

That's what people mean when they say Legion feels incompetent in WoW, though I am aware the majority of reasons for that are mainly tied to how MMO works and its particular limitations.

EDIT: I mean I am still enjoying it don't get me wrong, this is probably the closest villain was to victory in WoW.
Although I would prefer if Blizz made just a little bit more of an effort to make it somewhat more believable with little more suspense considering these guys were considered literally the end game not so long ago

[oplawlz]

I think the real question is how many times they'll manage to incapacitate us after losing a fight and run away.

[Boricha]

Powerful enough to still mock us as we defeat them at every turn and kill their with leaders with a small band of LFR heroes.