Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

Also I found an image from the WC2 map "Assault on Kul'tiras." Comparing it to the map on the armor I may have found something.

Oh? What did you find?

[In Ogres We Trust]

Why are we still discussing the scale of Kul Tiras? Once again, they could have Kul Tiras appear on the World Map with the same scale as the Chronicle Map, and once you click on it, the "continent" map would be just as large as a normal continent, i.e. the SCALE argument DOESN'T MATTER. In fact, if they went that route then Kul Tiras would be - as it relates to the scale within the lore - the closest depiction of a "continent" that we've come to in-game.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Yeah, I may have found something here.

So yeah, I found this map while looking up Kul'tiras in WC2. Tried playing the overlay game with the map on the armor and I may have made it fit decently well.





The coastline fits with the bottom-right, there's some jankyness on the left, and also the river on the RTS' map lines up with a river on the armor map.

Which campaign map is that from?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Which campaign map is that from?

Orc, Mission 8. Beyond the Dark Portal.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Assault_on...iras_(WC2_Orc)


Also of note that gives us roughly a scale for Kul'tiras City. It'd probably be roughly that grey square on the RTS map.

So if they were going for true size, you could probably fit 2-3 zones on Kul'tiras. But obviously Blizz never did true size before Legion.

[TomatoBisque]

yet he probably is making it up, you cant believe Youtubers trust me I was one

If Thete is who I am thinking of, he seems like a pretty respectable guy and is an active user in the Paladin section on MMOC (or at least was a year or two ago). I don't think he'd just make up rumors to drive views but who knows, I don't follow him.

[Hitei]

Why are we still discussing the scale of Kul Tiras? Once again, they could have Kul Tiras appear on the World Map with the same scale as the Chronicle Map, and once you click on it, the "continent" map would be just as large as a normal continent, i.e. the SCALE argument DOESN'T MATTER. In fact, if they went that route then Kul Tiras would be - as it relates to the scale within the lore - the closest depiction of a "continent" that we've come to in-game.

That worked for the Broken Isles. Which is very close to the actual depiciton of a "continent". The problem is that in lore KT is not much bigger than Gilneas City or Tol Barad. This deals with suspension of disbelief.

It's easy to go, "Hey here's this thing out in the middle of the ocean that you never had a scale reference for so it doesn't matter how big its made". It's a completely different thing to go "Hey you know this island that fits in the middle of this bay here and is not much bigger than that PvP zone or a large city? It's now 6 entire zones."

One is easy to say "Yeah, okay, I guess" to. The other is highly questionable.

The Map is from Assault on Kul Tiras.

[killwithpwr]

I don't understand why people here don't believe Kul Tiras can be a whole zone/continent for us to play saying "on the map, it's too small!"

The maps never depict places for their real size, and even if they did - ingame size can allways be manipulated to be much MUCH bigger than what shows on any map.

They might not use Kul Tiras as a main zone, true... But nothing is for certain.

They can litteraly introduce whole zones out of nothing. It's a game.
A fantasy game.

[KayRule]

I'm thinking it's a lost cause; every time a counterpoint is made, he just moves on.

The only thing I was wrong about Warcraft II is spaceships. I concede, and am embarrassed by it. For some reason I had a memory of them existing but they do not.

[In Ogres We Trust]

That worked for the Broken Isles. Which is very close to the actual depiciton of a "continent". The problem is that in lore KT is not much bigger than Gilneas City or Tol Barad. This deals with suspension of disbelief.

It's easy to go, "Hey here's this thing out in the middle of the ocean that you never had a scale reference for so it doesn't matter how big its made". It's a completely different thing to go "Hey you know this island that fits in the middle of this bay here and is not much bigger than that PvP zone or a large city? It's now 6 entire zones."

One is easy to say "Yeah, okay, I guess" to. The other is highly questionable.

The Map is from Assault on Kul Tiras.

Kul Tiras:



a) This lines up with the map on the datamined armor.
b) The "continent" would be on a separate server, so once again, the scale doesn't matter.
c) I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around your logic. Apparently, you're willing to accept Northrend, Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms in their in-game states, but you're unwilling to accept Kul Tiras as a "continent," because it's a scale reference too far. How so? The areas would be the closest thing that we've ever gotten to an accurate depiction for the lore.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Kul Tiras:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/media/wow.gamepedia.com/d/de/KultirasWC2.jpg[/IMG]

I mean I'd trust a WC2 map over a non-canon RPG book but that's just me.

Also worth noting when I say 2-3 zones one of those is likely Alliance-only and contains the capital. I'm predicting 8.0 ships with 6 zones, two faction-specific starting zones, and then 4 zones that you can do in any order.

[KayRule]

And the Burning Legion being a thing prior to Warcraft 3.

It wasn't called the Burning Legion but Daemon's say they are Legion.

[Hitei]

Orc, Mission 8. Beyond the Dark Portal.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Assault_on...iras_(WC2_Orc)


Also of note that gives us roughly a scale for Kul'tiras City. It'd probably be roughly that grey square on the RTS map.

So if they were going for true size, you could probably fit 2-3 zones on Kul'tiras. But obviously Blizz never did true size before Legion.

It seems to match the coastline well in the upper part. The lower "island" connected by a bridge looks like it's in what is water on the armor map, and there are some unexplained rivers/mountains.

Also I found something else on that armor set, that I haven't personally seen anyone bring up. Give me a bit.

I don't understand why people here don't believe Kul Tiras can be a whole zone/continent for us to play saying "on the map, it's too small!"

The maps never depict places for their real size, and even if they did - ingame size can allways be manipulated to be much MUCH bigger than what shows on any map.

They might not use Kul Tiras as a main zone, true... But nothing is for certain.

They can litteraly introduce whole zones out of nothing. It's a game.
A fantasy game.

The problem isn't map scaling, it's relative size. Chronicle is a canon map. There are zones on it that are much larger than what we see in most of the game (in fact, pretty much everything but the Broken Isles is scaled way down for the purposes of in game). The problem is that the relative scale means that Kul Tiras, uniquely, would have to be scaled way UP. That has never happened before. Everything is scaled down.

And the other problem is that, as mentioned above. The Chronicle map establishes a canon size for the island in relation to other places we have been, which are a roughly appropriate size, like Gilneas City.

a) This lines up with the map on the datamined armor.
b) The "continent" would be on a separate server, so once again, the scale doesn't matter.
c) I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around your logic. Apparently, you're willing to accept Northrend, Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms in their in-game states, but you're unwilling to accept Kul Tiras as a "continent", because it's a scale reference too far. How so? The are would be the closest thing that we've ever gotten to an accurate depiction.

I'm unwilling because you are talking about doing the exact opposite of what has been done with all of those places.

Broken Isles is slightly scaled down. Northrend, Kalimdor and the EK are massively scaled down. For Kul Tiras to make sense as a continent, it has to be greatly scaled up from its established size.

Do you not see how that is wonky?

It's like making a 1:16 model of a ship, and then having a 7' foot across ship's steering wheel on it.

I also don't know how evidence worth the map lineup is. The WC2 map is a small coastal section. Yes, it has some similar shapes, but it also has dissimilar shapes and the entire bottom doesn't line up--and there's a large landmass that should just be water that isn't, and what appear to be mountains that should be in the middle of lowlands.

The scale, even on a separate server, matters because we know how big KT is supposed to be, and how big the game is. Kul Tiras should have been sitting just outside Baradin Bay pre Cata. There is a painfully difficult necessary amount of suspension of disbelief in me arriving at Kul Tiras, which I know isn't much bigger than Tol Barad, and it being an entire continent that stretches out past rendering distance with swamps as large as the wetlands and mountains approaching Blackrock's height.

[Shadochi]

Truth is they could just as easly turn KT in 4-5 normal sized zone and require no retconning, and nobody could do anythig about it.

[In Ogres We Trust]

It seems to match the coastline well in the upper part. The lower "island" connected by a bridge looks like it's in what is water on the armor map, and there are some unexplained rivers/mountains.

Also I found something else on that armor set, that I haven't personally seen anyone bring up. Give me a bit.



The problem isn't map scaling, it's relative size. Chronicle is a canon map. There are zones on it that are much larger than what we see in most of the game (in fact, pretty much everything but the Broken Isles is scaled way down for the purposes of in game). The problem is that the relative scale means that Kul Tiras, uniquely, would have to be scaled way UP. That has never happened before. Everything is scaled down.

And the other problem is that, as mentioned above. The Chronicle map establishes a canon size for the island in relation to other places we have been, which are a roughly appropriate size, like Gilneas City.



I'm unwilling because you are talking about doing the exact opposite of what has been done with all of those places.

Broken Isles is slightly scaled down. Northrend, Kalimdor and the EK are massively scaled down. For Kul Tiras to make sense as a continent, it has to be greatly scaled up from its established size.

Do you not see how that is wonky?

It's like making a 1:16 model of a ship, and then having a 7' foot across ship's steering wheel on it.

I also don't know how evidence worth the map lineup is. The WC2 map is a small coastal section. Yes, it has some similar shapes, but it also has dissimilar shapes and the entire bottom doesn't line up--and there's a large landmass that should just be water that isn't, and what appear to be mountains that should be in the middle of lowlands.

The scale, even on a separate server, matters because we know how big KT is supposed to be, and how big the game is. Kul Tiras should have been sitting just outside Baradin Bay pre Cata. There is a painfully difficult necessary amount of suspension of disbelief in me arriving at Kul Tiras, which I know isn't much bigger than Tol Barad, and it being an entire continent that stretches out past rendering distance with swamps as large as the wetlands and mountains approaching Blackrock's height.

We'll agree to disagree, because it's just as asinine to argue about the suspension of disbelief for any of the other "continents" within the game. After all, a trek across STV is supposed to take an adventurer several weeks.

[Hitei]

We'll agree to disagree, because it's just as asinine to argue about the suspension of disbelief for any of the other "continents" within the game. After all, a trek across STV is supposed to take an adventurer several weeks.

It is, but once that scale is established, completely disregarding it is crazy.

Here is the thing I noticed. Which might also be reading into things, or have been brought up before:

[In Ogres We Trust]

Especially if they were leveling on a PvP server in Vanilla.

This seemed appropriate:

[TomatoBisque]

Geographically, there's no way something being considered as an expansion's new "continent" would be so small that it would replicate its size if it was a real world location. You can fly across WoW continents in like 5 minutes on things that are probably much slower than real planes, which already take over an hour for flights from, say, England to Germany or to go from southern to northern California.

Lore Kul'tiras would have to be the size of a city like New York or something to be even remotely close to-scale in WoW.

Even Suramar, which is a huge undertaking, is probably smaller than the distance it takes you to get to work/school.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It is, but once that scale is established, completely disregarding it is crazy.

Here is the thing I noticed. Which might also be reading into things, or have been brought up before:

https://puu.sh/y1H69/df63e82366.png[/IMG]

If you keep it rightside up it looks like a troll skull.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/78/b8...119a4ef8ef.jpg

[Hagakure]

Can we get the fucking Chinese riddle already?!?!?!

如果我們*中文寫的話，可笑的吸盤會相*什麼

[Fahrad Wagner]

Damn this 8.0 roller coaster made me lose my sh*t haha! Hopefully I was sleeping last night when it all happened.