Tank meta for Antorus

[Raiju]

I did say as a raid utility it's great, but it pays some of that price between paladins a) not having anything like grip and b) being a 3min cd that replaces your baseline physical raid utility

[Fatboner]

will the additional 25% armor buff prot pallies are getting not make them more competitive?

[Deleted]

I don't really understand why you guys are claiming that Guardians will be strong if there is alot of magic dmg. It is literally what they are worst at.

[Deleted]

Seems you're forgetting new t21 set bonuses...

Druid - literaly pile of garbage set bonus
DK - mediocre at best, you need to get hit a lot to fully maximise the use and it's more of a dps boost
Monk - I don't know what to think about this one... it will surely be OP on AoE but they will loose self sustain dropping t20
Paladin - pretty much bandaid fix to the class, they still suffer from lack of AM uptime (but less with the set)
DH - Same as DK, you need to face a boss a lot to make it really usefull but it's more of a defensive bonus
Warrior - Oh boy... We got a beastly set bonus here, pretty much best from all tank specs. 2p is basically entire t20 set bonus combined with insane single target burst on top of it and 4p is free mini ignore pain on blocking

I've been tanking the whole Legion with my prot warrior, I tanked Krosus before the new traits (when warriors were supposed to be non viable) and also solo tanked Star Augur before the 15% damage nerfs. And I can say that very well played warrior is up there in the top ranks (sadly people seems to not play prot warriors well...)

My summary:
DK - very strong pick for Antorus, they're basically damage sponges with their HP pools
Monk - still solid pick but mind the loss of self sustain from t20
Guardian - pretty much retard proof spec, they have many defensive CDs but loosing their budget Death Strike from t20
Warrior - we rip physical blockable damage into nothingness and have very very solid big cooldowns for burst magic damage (also we can have 100% AM uptime )
Paladin - They have utility to be at least soakbots with all the bubles and protections and all... still suffering from AM uptime tho
DH - I'm sorry but as much as I like them, they still lacks a solid big CD (like shield wall or survival instincts)


If I had to rate them it would be like this: DK> Druid / Monk / Warrior>> Paladin > DH (but the differences betweem them would be very very minimal)

[Deleted]

Monk - I don't know what to think about this one... it will surely be OP on AoE but they will loose self sustain dropping t20

The monk set bonus in the form that it is right now is probably the most broken shit for this entire expansion. With a good amount of mastery, you will be able to reach permanent 100% dodge on single target. Your damage will probably be shit, but you just dodge everything that can be dodged, so... fair?

[Deleted]

Seems you're forgetting new t21 set bonuses...

Druid - literaly pile of garbage set bonus
DK - mediocre at best, you need to get hit a lot to fully maximise the use and it's more of a dps boost
Monk - I don't know what to think about this one... it will surely be OP on AoE but they will loose self sustain dropping t20
Paladin - pretty much bandaid fix to the class, they still suffer from lack of AM uptime (but less with the set)
DH - Same as DK, you need to face a boss a lot to make it really usefull but it's more of a defensive bonus
Warrior - Oh boy... We got a beastly set bonus here, pretty much best from all tank specs. 2p is basically entire t20 set bonus combined with insane single target burst on top of it and 4p is free mini ignore pain on blocking

I've been tanking the whole Legion with my prot warrior, I tanked Krosus before the new traits (when warriors were supposed to be non viable) and also solo tanked Star Augur before the 15% damage nerfs. And I can say that very well played warrior is up there in the top ranks (sadly people seems to not play prot warriors well...)

My summary:
DK - very strong pick for Antorus, they're basically damage sponges with their HP pools
Monk - still solid pick but mind the loss of self sustain from t20
Guardian - pretty much retard proof spec, they have many defensive CDs but loosing their budget Death Strike from t20
Warrior - we rip physical blockable damage into nothingness and have very very solid big cooldowns for burst magic damage (also we can have 100% AM uptime )
Paladin - They have utility to be at least soakbots with all the bubles and protections and all... still suffering from AM uptime tho
DH - I'm sorry but as much as I like them, they still lacks a solid big CD (like shield wall or survival instincts)


If I had to rate them it would be like this: DK> Druid / Monk / Warrior>> Paladin > DH (but the differences betweem them would be very very minimal)

It is already well established that every tank is viable for endgame content, still doesn't mean that just because you can do the content on any tank that they are equally strong.

Survivability wise id rate tanks: DK/Monk>Druid>Warrior/DH>Paladin
Overall usefulness for the raid prolly puts Druid at the same level or ahead of DK and monk and paladin pretty much on par with warrior and DH.

[Deleted]

It is already well established that every tank is viable for endgame content, still doesn't mean that just because you can do the content on any tank that they are equally strong.

Survivability wise id rate tanks: DK/Monk>Druid>Warrior/DH>Paladin
Overall usefulness for the raid prolly puts Druid at the same level or ahead of DK and monk and paladin pretty much on par with warrior and DH.

You can't put warrior on par with DH in current form... that's just wrong

Sure they both can do the hardest content but I can't even immagine how would I do Maiden mythic with DH (It's a breeze with warrior) The number of CDs I have available is amazing ( I can rotate Shield wall and Last stand every 2 hammers + spell reflect and Demo shout on every hammer)

Also if the incomming damage is blockable (like 90% of ToS) then warrior have THE BEST active mitigation against it. Sure monk can have 80% stagger, but the damage is still ticking and you need to purify, sure druid can go to armor cap, but warrior have 57 % reduction from armor + 40/80% blocking (realistically 60% with 50% mastery) and IP (I could go over 500k hps with IP alone in heavy damage situations)

3% leech aura is not to be underestimated. From my observations on Maiden Mythic, it did same healing as our resto druids Rejuvenation except it had only 3.5 - 4 % overhealing


People seems to have stigma against Warriors since we were hit by nerf hammer sooo heavy. Prot warriors went from retard proof spec to spec with high skillcap where one misscalculation on AM usage or bad positioning will yield you a death. That's why guilds prefer to have DK/Druid/monk because you won't get punnished so hard making a mistake than on warrior even when they are equally strong.

And as I said, I progressed whole NH and ToS with prot warrior, you have to adapt and change your playstyle depending on boss not doing the same thing on every boss like guardian for example

PS: Exorsus used Prot warrior on world first race (not on Kil'jaeden ofc from obvious reasons)

[Stinkefedt]

So the question should be:

Which tank utility will be the most useful in the new raid?

[Deleted]

So the question should be:

Which tank utility will be the most useful in the new raid?

raid movement ? - Druid
adds need to die quickly ? - DK
raid healing ? - Warrior
immunity soaking ? - pala
tank movement ? - monk/warrior/DH

[Deleted]

You can't put warrior on par with DH in current form... that's just wrong

Sure they both can do the hardest content but I can't even immagine how would I do Maiden mythic with DH (It's a breeze with warrior) The number of CDs I have available is amazing ( I can rotate Shield wall and Last stand every 2 hammers + spell reflect and Demo shout on every hammer)

Also if the incomming damage is blockable (like 90% of ToS) then warrior have THE BEST active mitigation against it. Sure monk can have 80% stagger, but the damage is still ticking and you need to purify, sure druid can go to armor cap, but warrior have 57 % reduction from armor + 40/80% blocking (realistically 60% with 50% mastery) and IP (I could go over 500k hps with IP alone in heavy damage situations)

3% leech aura is not to be underestimated. From my observations on Maiden Mythic, it did same healing as our resto druids Rejuvenation except it had only 3.5 - 4 % overhealing


People seems to have stigma against Warriors since we were hit by nerf hammer sooo heavy. Prot warriors went from retard proof spec to spec with high skillcap where one misscalculation on AM usage or bad positioning will yield you a death. That's why guilds prefer to have DK/Druid/monk because you won't get punnished so hard making a mistake than on warrior even when they are equally strong.

And as I said, I progressed whole NH and ToS with prot warrior, you have to adapt and change your playstyle depending on boss not doing the same thing on every boss like guardian for example

PS: Exorsus used Prot warrior on world first race (not on Kil'jaeden ofc from obvious reasons)

I dont really understand why you are trying to justify viability over and over by saying how you handle mechanics, thats not even what OP was asking about. The fact that almost as many DHs have done Maiden as warriors says all it needs to, especially with it being the newest class and warriors being the class that alot of people have played since vanilla without any rerolls.
If you read my post I clearly say that all specs are viable. You are even saying yourself that people have a stigma against warriors so obviously that means that it wont be the "hot shit" when it comes to the meta. No matter how much you want it to be true, they are not yet at the level of the current top 3. We shall see if the pre raid balancing changes that.

[topmaymay]

Warriors are very, very viable this tier and will continue to be next tier. Majority of tanks just want to copy top guilds and started gearing bears, monks and some DKs.

Tomb 4pc + Antorus 2pc with Shield Wall legendary ring is going to be fucking insane.

[Deleted]

tbh if Sco made a video saying that best tank is arcane mage wanding target, people would seriously progress bosses with arcane mages wanding the boss...

He also said warr is "worst" tank for ToS...

[Masternewt]

That tells me you have no clue what you're talking about and think last bosses = entire raids.

Last boss can just as well be entire raid. You think a raid will take one tank for 9 bosses and then that tank will bring a different tank for the last boss cause the tank he used this far is basically useless on last boss?

[Tech614]

DH - I'm sorry but as much as I like them, they still lacks a solid big CD (like shield wall or survival instincts)

Like Shield Wall?

Literally what the hell are you talking about? In any non AoE situation Fiery Brand is the same DR as Shield Wall, lasts longer then Shield Wall and has 1/4th of the CD of shield wall.

Survival Instincts is 10% stronger, but has far lower duration and much higher CD as well.

[david0925]

I don't really understand why you guys are claiming that Guardians will be strong if there is alot of magic dmg. It is literally what they are worst at.

because Guardian has a lot of passive magic damage reduction or Adaptive Fur whose uptime depends on the frequency of said magic damage, especially if no spikes is involved that you can't cover with longer CDs. A good example of this is Dark Slash from Maw of Souls. Even with these kind of spikes, as long as it doesn't one shot you or put you dangerously low, Frenzied Regeneration will heal you back for ridiculous amount while consuming only 10 rage.

Guardian are worse at tanking magic than physical for sure, especially since they didn't give them an AM button to replace MoU. However, design has already strayed away from constant magic damage and even huge spikes of magic damage is rare, so it doesn't matter that much.

[Deleted]

Like Shield Wall?

Literally what the hell are you talking about? In any non AoE situation Fiery Brand is the same DR as Shield Wall, lasts longer then Shield Wall and has 1/4th of the CD of shield wall.

Survival Instincts is 10% stronger, but has far lower duration and much higher CD as well.

That's exactly it... it's useless in AoE or against dot

Also I can cut down shield wall to 1 min cd if I want to

[vaarsuviuss]

Prot pally sitting at 933 53% base haste atm - 85-91% uptime on sotr during the fight. If I hold on judge and shield charge I can have it up 100% of the time i need it. Once we hit 65%ish haste we will once again take over tanking. Having 60%+ DR on everything and the ability to do 700K+hps on the raid with that much haste.

[Tech614]

That's exactly it... it's useless in AoE or against dot

Also I can cut down shield wall to 1 min cd if I want to

How is it useless against a DoT? Do you even understand what the spell does?

Also if you had any clue what you're spouting you would realize a VDH doesn't really need any extra mitigation in AoE situations. Outside of some insta gib that would never happen outside of some very high fortified trash in M+ they are literally invincible when fighting multiple mobs as their self healing scales exponentially with number mobs. They're favored in M+ over war, monk and pal for a reason.

There are issues with VDH(far less now then there used to be), but all you have proven is you don't even understand how the spec works nor should you be commenting on it. Never once did a VDH ever think they needed ANOTHER CD when they already have 3 very strong ones.

[Better]

That's exactly it... it's useless in AoE or against dot

Also I can cut down shield wall to 1 min cd if I want to

It can work against multiple targets if you for some reason needed it to, it's just that having more fragments for SpB in an AoE situation is generally better. We can also cut it's CD to be shorter than the duration of the spell in heavy AoE situations.

[Marrilaife]

Never once did a VDH ever think they needed ANOTHER CD when they already have 3 very strong ones.

Meta and Fiery Brand, what do you count as a 3rd cd, I must be forgetting something. Especially since no one plays with soul barrier these days, in NH yea I saw it, but now, not really, I guess it scales poorly or spirit bomb rework just cannibalized it.

On the general subject, makes me sad the community consensus is prot pal will stay bottom tier, after playing it from wotlk to legion and being forced by my raid leader to reroll I see there's little hope I can come back to my old main, as long as majority agrees paladin is shit and you should play druid / monk / dk for mythic raiding, wanting to play a different one is like telling your raid leader you're gonna main a surv hunter. 99% of them won't agree.