Scotland: First Floating Wind Farm

[IIamaKing]

I cant help but think of all the wind turbines on land that are falling apart due to not being serviced because of cost.

[Vash The Stampede]

Pro nuclear people be like, "Wind power makes your beaches look ugly, plus it's dangerous as it'll cut off the extra arms that nuclear grew".

[Afrospinach]

Lol, good point. Geo-thermal would probably be better! /kidding

I guess solar would be the way to go out there, eh?

Of course, they have the best conditions on the planet for solar AFAIK.

South Australia is pretty windy though.

[cubby]

Of course, they have the best conditions on the planet for solar AFAIK.

South Australia is pretty windy though.

You're absolutely right - solar would rule there - so much less upkeep that floating metal in water, lol. Now that I think about it, I recall reading a sci-fy book in which most of Australia was covered in Solar Panels - and they were the energy generator for the planet. Something obscene like 1/3 or 1/4 - literally solar cells.

Wonder how the math works out on that . . .

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Pro nuclear people be like, "Wind power makes your beaches look ugly, plus it's dangerous as it'll cut off the extra arms that nuclear grew".

Interestingly enough - nuclear power is now being added as part of "renewable", losely, because small but powerful nuclear stations help keep flow from renewable smooth during low periods. I was a lecture where they discussed how nuclear would need to be "part of the solution" until renewable could be brought to bare in a consistently deliverable medium.

Interesting stuff.

[Masark]

Interestingly enough - nuclear power is now being added as part of "renewable", losely, because small but powerful nuclear stations help keep flow from renewable smooth during low periods. I was a lecture where they discussed how nuclear would need to be "part of the solution" until renewable could be brought to bare in a consistently deliverable medium.

Interesting stuff.

Nuclear is ill-suited to mixing with renewable. Nuclear reactors can't rapidly adjust output (due to neutron poisons), so they can't load follow well with variable generation like wind and solar, and while it is possible to make a plant that you can adjust the generator output independently of the reactor output (see: Bruce Nuclear), it makes things a lot more complex and expensive, and cost is something nuclear already struggles mightily with.

IMO, grid storage (either batteries, pumped hydro, or maybe underwater compressed air given we're talking offshore stuff in this thread) will probably fill the needs better.

[Zmaniac17]

I live in Scotland, and yesterday was the first time I had even heard of this project, Hywind. I love wind farms, and feel they are definitely going to be a huge part of our future producing power.

I thought the whole -floating- thing was quite interesting. Do you think we will see more of these floating farms? What are your thoughts on it?

You might like these videos too. I'm not sure people really get how massive these wind turbines are becoming. The cost is crashing downwards too. It's already cheaper to build wind turbines in many areas over coal fire power plants.

I cant help but think of all the wind turbines on land that are falling apart due to not being serviced because of cost.

Where? Link!

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You're absolutely right - solar would rule there - so much less upkeep that floating metal in water, lol. Now that I think about it, I recall reading a sci-fy book in which most of Australia was covered in Solar Panels - and they were the energy generator for the planet. Something obscene like 1/3 or 1/4 - literally solar cells.

Wonder how the math works out on that . . .

Here's some estimates. It wouldn't be anywhere near 1/4th or 1/3rd according to this.





And of course you can never account for technological breakthroughs that allow for even more efficiency. So realistically we'll have more than enough especially when you consider smart grid and grid storage being added.

[Masark]

Here's some estimates. It wouldn't be anywhere near 1/4th or 1/3rd according to this.

If you put it ALL on Australia, it looks like about 1/8th.

[Zmaniac17]

If you put it ALL on Australia, it looks like about 1/8th.

1/15th actually. It's 500 square km. Australia is 7.7 million km.

The problem of course would be transporting all that energy. So it makes a good thought experiment, but there's not very many compelling reasons to centrally locate all your power generation. In reality, I think power generation would be very widely distributed and smart grids will make large scale power outages a thing of the past.

[baskev]

I live in Scotland, and yesterday was the first time I had even heard of this project, Hywind. I love wind farms, and feel they are definitely going to be a huge part of our future producing power.

I thought the whole -floating- thing was quite interesting. Do you think we will see more of these floating farms? What are your thoughts on it?





Link to source: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...s-electricity/

raise with a island made by 6 country's

[cubby]

You might like these videos too. I'm not sure people really get how massive these wind turbines are becoming. The cost is crashing downwards too. It's already cheaper to build wind turbines in many areas over coal fire power plants.










Where? Link!

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Here's some estimates. It wouldn't be anywhere near 1/4th or 1/3rd according to this.





And of course you can never account for technological breakthroughs that allow for even more efficiency. So realistically we'll have more than enough especially when you consider smart grid and grid storage being added.

Wow . . . I mean, just wow. And good point about tech breakthroughs - we've already seen the lynchpin with Elon's battery company. We can now effectively store renewable energy if needed. Done and done.

I think the book I was referring to did the exaggeration for story's sake.

[Zmaniac17]

Wow . . . I mean, just wow. And good point about tech breakthroughs - we've already seen the lynchpin with Elon's battery company. We can now effectively store renewable energy if needed. Done and done.

I think the book I was referring to did the exaggeration for story's sake.

Ya probably, I love SciFi. Eventually space based solar generation would eliminate the need for the use of any land at all. At some point when power demands are large enough that would become practical. I like to imagine an orbital ring around Earth with space elevators extending down to the surface.

[cubby]

Ya probably, I love SciFi. Eventually space based solar generation would eliminate the need for the use of any land at all. At some point when power demands are large enough that would become practical. I like to imagine an orbital ring around Earth with space elevators extending down to the surface.

That would be fantastic - and I've read the same thing in a couple of "the future of humanity" sites where they detail tech developments and achievements on a decade-by-decade basis.

There is also the already-working-prototype of solar cells that are also transparent - so you can basically use them as windows on city buildings and they provide the entire building's needs.

Speaking of sci-fy books - if you're into the "we're totally fucked" distopian versions, Seveneves is VERY good.

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raise with a island made by 6 country's

First of all - this looks awesome. Seriously cool.

But why are we raising an island? Is it to centralize the maintenance needs of an ocean wind farm?

[IIamaKing]

Where? Link!

Its first hand knowledge of a town that put in 30, and now only 6 spin as the costs to upkeep are higher than what they were producing.

[Zmaniac17]

Its first hand knowledge of a town that put in 30, and now only 6 spin as the costs to upkeep are higher than what they were producing.

More info. Is this local news or just you seeing the turbines not spinning? I find it hard to believe a town would put in 30 of them and not get an estimate on service costs compared to available wind. Then again I guess it's possible. I mean once they're in that's the major cost hurdle. Maintaining them doesn't really cost much as long as there's wind.

"Figure 1.6, shows how total O&M costs for the period between 1997 and 2001 were split into six different categories, based on German data from DEWI. Expenses pertaining to buying power from the grid and land rental (as in Spain) are included in the O&M costs calculated for Germany. For the first two years of its lifetime, a turbine is usually covered by the manufacturer’s warranty, so in the German study O&M costs made up a small percentage (2-3 percent) of total investment costs for these two years, corresponding to approximately 0.3-0.4 c€ /kWh. After six years, the total O&M costs increased, constituting slightly less than 5 percent of total investment costs, which is equivalent to around 0.6-0.7 c€/kWh. These figures are fairly similar to the O&M costs calculated for newer Danish turbines (see below)."
https://www.wind-energy-the-facts.or...ted-power.html

Wind Turbine Technician is a really good job to get now too. No degree required. 25$ an hour.

"Employment of wind turbine service technicians is projected to grow 108 percent from 2014 to 2024, much faster than the average for all occupations."
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation...echnicians.htm

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That would be fantastic - and I've read the same thing in a couple of "the future of humanity" sites where they detail tech developments and achievements on a decade-by-decade basis.

There is also the already-working-prototype of solar cells that are also transparent - so you can basically use them as windows on city buildings and they provide the entire building's needs.

Speaking of sci-fy books - if you're into the "we're totally fucked" distopian versions, Seveneves is VERY good.

Cool.

Check out Isacc Arthur's youtube channel if you like this sorta stuff too.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZF...M5CKUjx6grh54g

Here's the episode on orbital rings.

[Total Crica]

Will the weather destroy that? Or has it not been tested for that yet?

[Zmaniac17]

Will the weather destroy that? Or has it not been tested for that yet?

Big wind turbines like that have the ability to lock their rotation and change the angle of attack on their blades to prevent damage from very high winds. Would they survive a category 5 hurricane? I don't know. Depends on how well they're built.

Wind farms have been a thing for a long time so there's plenty of real world testing.

https://www.quora.com/Could-wind-tur...y-5-hurricanes

[Trassk]

So what happens when we have a storm at sea? What stops them going over into the ocean?

[baskev]

That would be fantastic - and I've read the same thing in a couple of "the future of humanity" sites where they detail tech developments and achievements on a decade-by-decade basis.

There is also the already-working-prototype of solar cells that are also transparent - so you can basically use them as windows on city buildings and they provide the entire building's needs.

Speaking of sci-fy books - if you're into the "we're totally fucked" distopian versions, Seveneves is VERY good.

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First of all - this looks awesome. Seriously cool.

But why are we raising an island? Is it to centralize the maintenance needs of an ocean wind farm?

Why a island. Because they are going to make it ( as far as i can find) in between those country's in a spot middle in the sea where there is low traffic and allot of wind. It also would not impact the country's themselves. And give marine life a place where there is no fishing.

And to put it into perspective....if it can really give around 80mil people wind power...it can power the whole of netherlands, belguim, denmark and norway combined and still have around 40 mil left. If you would split that it would be enough to power 1/3 of the UK and 1/4 of Germany....

[Lochton]

I live in Scotland, and yesterday was the first time I had even heard of this project, Hywind. I love wind farms, and feel they are definitely going to be a huge part of our future producing power.

I thought the whole -floating- thing was quite interesting. Do you think we will see more of these floating farms? What are your thoughts on it?





Link to source: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...s-electricity/

Ah, brilliant to see that they got it up and running, been following these projects closely. As well, they aren't really floating. Even so, people might be discouraged by them but 'foot' of the windmills create good environments for sea life.

These seems easier to manage though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_wind_turbine
And I bet there is even more space in the air.

Yes, and no.

They aren't really as easy to manage as they are easily affected by rough winds. As well, we don't have so much 'space' in the sky, as we have flying machines across that makes these turbines a little more tricky. As well, they sadly have a higher rate of being sabotaged than the regular ones.

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I cant help but think of all the wind turbines on land that are falling apart due to not being serviced because of cost.

Wait, what country is this? US I guess? I know that half of EU is under maintenance contracts as soon as they purchase windmills.

[IIamaKing]

More info. Is this local news or just you seeing the turbines not spinning? I find it hard to believe a town would put in 30 of them and not get an estimate on service costs compared to available wind. Then again I guess it's possible. I mean once they're in that's the major cost hurdle. Maintaining them doesn't really cost much as long as there's wind.

Folks live there, town in middle WI. The Mills changed hands after like 10 years and those people stopped maintaining them citing cost. Now, the Mills are old, been up like 15 20 years. Maybe it THOSE specific mills.