How do we put an end to all this Welfare???

[Zan15]

I mean its getting out of hand. All this corporate welfare that most of the time turns out to cost taxpayers gobs of money for a huge loss.

How do they even have the right to tell someone or some company they don't need to pay taxes? How about we give tax incentives to people to move to state X if they meet some criteria?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dquarters.html

US cities are offering Amazon.com Inc at least as much as $7billion in tax breaks

New Jersey proposed $7billion in potential credits against state and city taxes if Amazon locates in Newark




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKBN1AO2JQ

Wisconsin won't break even on Foxconn plant incentives for 25 years:

Wisconsin is not projected to break even on a $3 billion incentive package for a proposed LCD screen plant by Taiwan’s Foxconn for at least 25 years, a legislative analysis showed on Tuesday


Wisconsin will not receive a return on its investment in the project until about 2042.



Lets not even forget:

- Military corporate welfare
- Multinational farm corporate welfare
- Banking welfare in the form of negative interest rate loans

etc etc etc

[Puremallace]

Currently we are not living in a Democratic Republic but an oligarchy and this is how they work. Just enjoy what is left of the country before it collapses under the massive debt load. There is a pretty good reason Millennials believe we will be the first to be screwed and that Medicare and Social Security will not be there for us when we retire.

All I have to say is get what you can while you can because once it collapses it is not going to be pretty.

[Xeones]

Gotta get money out of politics. We don't need corporations, they need us. But they have convinced a lot of people it's the opposite.

[Gestopft]

Gotta get money out of politics. We don't need corporations, they need us. But they have convinced a lot of people it's the opposite.

They've convinced us that they are fragile snowflakes and if they don't get everything they demand they'll completely fall apart and it will be the end of the world.

[Adam Jensen]

Honestly, this is the only option:

[Wyrt]

Stop electing conservatives. Elect progressives.

[Gestopft]

Stop electing conservatives. Elect progressives.

but...but....SJW/BLM/ANTIFA/CNN/FAKENEWS/ABORTION/SAFESPACES

Clear and rational priorities.

[Rasulis]

You can’t compare the Foxconn deal with Amazon. So NJ offers 7 billion in subsidy if Amazon locate the 2nd HQ there. What do NJ get for that 7 billion?

Amazon is planning to invest 5 billion in building their HQ. So 5 billion into the NJ’s economy.

Amazon is planning to employ up to 50k people (they have around 40k in Seattle). At 100k per year per person (which is probably low), we are looking at 5 billion per year in salary alone.

Those 50k new employees will need housing which will lead to residential construction boom.

Amazon will need subs to service their 8.1 million sq. feet facilities (computers, networks, janitorial services, landscaping, office supplies, etc.). More jobs.

Etc.

The bottom line, businesses like Amazon tend to have a cascading effect on a state’s economy.

Although, I doubt NJ will get the HQ. It does not have the talent pool for 50,000 high tech workers.

[Zan15]

You can’t compare the Foxconn deal with Amazon. So NJ offers 7 billion in subsidy if Amazon locate the 2nd HQ there. What do NJ get for that 7 billion?

Amazon is planning to invest 5 billion in building their HQ. So 5 billion into the NJ’s economy.

Amazon is planning to employ up to 50k people (they have around 40k in Seattle). At 100k per year per person (which is probably low), we are looking at 5 billion per year in salary alone.

Those 50k new employees will need housing which will lead to residential construction boom.

Amazon will need subs to service their 8.1 million sq. feet facilities (computers, networks, janitorial services, landscaping, office supplies, etc.). More jobs.

Etc.

The bottom line, businesses like Amazon tend to have a cascading effect on a state’s economy.

Although, I doubt NJ will get the HQ. It does not have the talent pool for 50,000 high tech workers.

They said the same thing about foxconn till they calculated the final numbers...cascading to 2042....


5 billion into the economy does not offset 5 billion in taxes, especially if they get some huge corporation to build their HQ then you cannot even guarantee that most of that 5 billion will even be spent in NJ.....i.e buying steel from china, Buying drywal from mexico...etc etc etc.


Foxconn was also only 3 billion, there are whisper numbers of up to 10 billion (9 confirmed by nj) for amazon.


Amazon has already confirmed the average salary is 55k, and that the major execs that beef up that average in Seattle won't be present in the new location so that numbers is inflated.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...017-story.html

Monday's announcement of a possible $7 billion in tax incentives is $2 billion more than what Christie and the Democrat-led Legislature last month agreed to enact to attract Amazon.

Christie's announcement also outlined a city property tax abatement worth up to $1 billion and a city wage tax waiver that he said would let potential Amazon workers keep $1 billion over 20 years.



so foxconn was 15k jobs 3 billion, amazon 9 billion 50k jobs.
very close.

[Tijuana]

I mean its getting out of hand. All this corporate welfare that most of the time turns out to cost taxpayers gobs of money for a huge loss.

How do they even have the right to tell someone or some company they don't need to pay taxes? How about we give tax incentives to people to move to state X if they meet some criteria?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dquarters.html

US cities are offering Amazon.com Inc at least as much as $7billion in tax breaks

New Jersey proposed $7billion in potential credits against state and city taxes if Amazon locates in Newark




https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKBN1AO2JQ

Wisconsin won't break even on Foxconn plant incentives for 25 years:

Wisconsin is not projected to break even on a $3 billion incentive package for a proposed LCD screen plant by Taiwan’s Foxconn for at least 25 years, a legislative analysis showed on Tuesday


Wisconsin will not receive a return on its investment in the project until about 2042.



Lets not even forget:

- Military corporate welfare
- Multinational farm corporate welfare
- Banking welfare in the form of negative interest rate loans

etc etc etc

Easy. Remove all tax deductions from both the private and corporate systems. Every single tax deduction is immoral, and cheats other citizens or companies who don't get the deduction, in to effectively paying more. The only purpose of tax deductions, is that they are the currency of Washington corruption. This is the vehicle by which they pay back their corrupters.

[Rasulis]

They said the same thing about foxconn till they calculated the final numbers...cascading to 2042....


5 billion into the economy does not offset 5 billion in taxes, especially if they get some huge corporation to build their HQ then you cannot even guarantee that most of that 5 billion will even be spent in NJ.....i.e buying steel from china, Buying drywal from mexico...etc etc etc.


Foxconn was also only 3 billion, there are whisper numbers of up to 10 billion (9 confirmed by nj) for amazon.


Amazon has already confirmed the average salary is 55k, and that the major execs that beef up that average in Seattle won't be present in the new location so that numbers is inflated.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...017-story.html

Monday's announcement of a possible $7 billion in tax incentives is $2 billion more than what Christie and the Democrat-led Legislature last month agreed to enact to attract Amazon.

Christie's announcement also outlined a city property tax abatement worth up to $1 billion and a city wage tax waiver that he said would let potential Amazon workers keep $1 billion over 20 years.



so foxconn was 15k jobs 3 billion, amazon 9 billion 50k jobs.
very close.

The idea of Amazon attracting talented people to move to New Jersey for a 55k salary seems absurd. One of my client's project manager was from New Jersey. He turned down a promotion and took a lower paying job just to get out of that state.

All joking aside, I still don't think New Jersey has a chance. There are a lot of better cities. Although, cities that meet Amazon's criteria (population, airport, mass transit, talent pool, quality of life) are all pretty expensive. Even in Austin the average home price is now up to 511k. Denver another good candidate is over 800k. They better up that 55k salary.

[Thepersona]

Easy. Remove all tax deductions from both the private and corporate systems. Every single tax deduction is immoral, and cheats other citizens or companies who don't get the deduction, in to effectively paying more. The only purpose of tax deductions, is that they are the currency of Washington corruption. This is the vehicle by which they pay back their corrupters.

Well, yes and no. sometimes tax deductions are necesary (as in, sometimes the tax burden of a small company that's in financial stress could be too much), but you're mostly right.
The elephant in the room is the terrible lobbying laws and the blatant money in politics that you have.

[Doctor Amadeus]

“End the fed man because taxes is theft “. J/k

You do an audit

[Realitytrembles]

End all deductions, all loopholes, all tax shelters, all of it.

3 tax brackets:

at or below the poverty line, you pay no taxes. None. Not federal, state, or local. ZERO.

above poverty and below 100,000 take home, taxes capped at 15% of your annual income.

100,000+, you pay taxes capped at 75% of your annual income.

According to Census Bureau data, about 20% of Americans have a 6 figure or greater income. Too bad, so sad, you are outvoted. Cry me a river.

[Zan15]

The idea of Amazon attracting talented people to move to New Jersey for a 55k salary seems absurd. One of my client's project manager was from New Jersey. He turned down a promotion and took a lower paying job just to get out of that state.

All joking aside, I still don't think New Jersey has a chance. There are a lot of better cities. Although, cities that meet Amazon's criteria (population, airport, mass transit, talent pool, quality of life) are all pretty expensive. Even in Austin the average home price is now up to 511k. Denver another good candidate is over 800k. They better up that 55k salary.

Well the 55k was the average salary in a state and city that is multiple levels lower then NJ, if you adjust for cost of living differences you could be looking in excess of 80k per job on average. That's a nice average even by NJ standards.

but forget NJ they won't win, even so all the states in the running are offering the same kind of packages...maybe not as retarded as NJ numbers are but when you adjust for the tax differences and the COLA its in the same ballpark

[Fugus]

Stop electing conservatives. Elect progressives.

Evidently the Democrats have made it a point to oust Progressives from DNC leadership positions according to Sam Ronan. Haven't checked up on it myself yet.



If that is true, then there is no real chance of it or honestly no party left worth anything in the US when the Republicans are so far off into batshit land they found Narnia and kept going and the Democrats are doing everything they can to fight their voters and run them off thinking they have no choice because the alternatives are the Republicans.

[Mittens]

We ban Canadian made products.

[Fugus]

We ban Canadian made products.

Hey now, you take my bacon and I might have to choke a bitch.

[Beazy]

The idea of Amazon attracting talented people to move to New Jersey for a 55k salary seems absurd. One of my client's project manager was from New Jersey. He turned down a promotion and took a lower paying job just to get out of that state.

All joking aside, I still don't think New Jersey has a chance. There are a lot of better cities. Although, cities that meet Amazon's criteria (population, airport, mass transit, talent pool, quality of life) are all pretty expensive. Even in Austin the average home price is now up to 511k. Denver another good candidate is over 800k. They better up that 55k salary.

55k in NJ? That would be like 30k in Dallas, that is simply not worth it.

Why doesn't Amazon use the billions in tax breaks and offer employees more? LoL Just kidding, this is America.

[Scyclone]

End all deductions, all loopholes, all tax shelters, all of it.

3 tax brackets:

at or below the poverty line, you pay no taxes. None. Not federal, state, or local. ZERO.

above poverty and below 100,000 take home, taxes capped at 15% of your annual income.

100,000+, you pay taxes capped at 75% of your annual income.

According to Census Bureau data, about 20% of Americans have a 6 figure or greater income. Too bad, so sad, you are outvoted. Cry me a river.

I'd agree with something like that if it was done in a rolling progression. I do think that 75% if extreme though.

Poverty Line = 0%
Above Poverty to 100k = 15%
100k-200k = 50%
200k+ = 70%

The important thing to note is the taxes need to be done by payments over each bracket. That is something we do not do at the moment, since people are encouraged to lower their own tax brackets through donations/investments/etc.

If we removed ALL forms of deductions, we could then do something like this:

Let's say someone makes 115k, and assume the poverty line is 25k

25k at 0%
75k at 15%
15k at 50%

11.25 + 7.5 = 18.75 in taxes paid.

So a little over 16% in taxes paid. Then, lets assume the person instead makes 180k.

25k at 0%
75k at 15%
80k at 50%

11.25 + 40 = 55.25 in taxes paid. So a little over 30% in taxes paid.

The thing is that the scaling will not dissuade people from making money or working to earn it. It isn't as if you hit a hard number and suddenly lose a ton of money - because someone making 120k will not really pay much more than someone making 115k