Time to increase gap in raid loot?

[Lahis]

Taken from Wowhead:

Finally, our Raid Finder item. With a base Item Level of 835, it needs to upgrade 12 times to make it all the way to 895. Long story short, that's a 1 in 4096 chance of being 880. Let's say you get 2-3 items a week from fully clearing Raid Finder. You'd need to run Raid Finder every week for over 21 years in order to have a >50% chance of seeing a 895 item out of Emerald Nightmare LFR. By that time, we'll all be in item level 4000 gear as we play the latest Corgis Unleashed expansion on our VR decks (unlike the rest of this post, this part is entirely factual). But hey, you'll probably have that 895 Raid Finder item. Or you still might not. Still feel mandatory?

This was with made up numbers, and the chance is actually lower but it was written that way to make it easier to explain.

Everyone should read this:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=253854/t...stem-in-legion

How can people honestly go around and complain about this when the chances to even get a lfr item to max is so low is beyond me. Nothing wrong with the game, only players.

One of our Rogues had 915 LFR T20 helm.

[Raelbo]

Taken from Wowhead:

Finally, our Raid Finder item. With a base Item Level of 835, it needs to upgrade 12 times to make it all the way to 895. Long story short, that's a 1 in 4096 chance of being 880. Let's say you get 2-3 items a week from fully clearing Raid Finder. You'd need to run Raid Finder every week for over 21 years in order to have a >50% chance of seeing a 895 item out of Emerald Nightmare LFR. By that time, we'll all be in item level 4000 gear as we play the latest Corgis Unleashed expansion on our VR decks (unlike the rest of this post, this part is entirely factual). But hey, you'll probably have that 895 Raid Finder item. Or you still might not. Still feel mandatory?

This was with made up numbers, and the chance is actually lower but it was written that way to make it easier to explain.

Everyone should read this:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=253854/t...stem-in-legion

How can people honestly go around and complain about this when the chances to even get a lfr item to max is so low is beyond me. Nothing wrong with the game, only players.

What?!?

Who the hell cares what they say their design intent was, or how rational their argument may appear? We all know that the truth is that it's just a huge conspiracy to force us into an endless grind which we cannot stand so that we're forever beholden to Blizzard with our subscriptions. Because reasons!!!!1!!one! I mean you can't really deny facts can you?

PS: Yeah this is pretty much what I have been saying for months now every time one of those cancerous "RNG is terrible design" threads pops up. I am continually amazed by the resistance people have to logic and reason when it can all be explained by an elaborate conspiracy theory.

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One of our Rogues had 915 LFR T20 helm.

Indeed, this sort of thing can, and is meant to happen. Not really sure where the problem is (or what exactly you think this proves)

[Doffen]

One of our Rogues had 915 LFR T20 helm.

lol. Yeah, it can happen :P You can also win millions in lottery. Its a chance, but the point was towards those who thinks a lfr can be decked in mythic 930+ gear from LFR only. It can happen. But likely? You are just as likely as winning the superball 10 times.

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What?!?

Who the hell cares what they say their design intent was, or how rational their argument may appear? We all know that the truth is that it's just a huge conspiracy to force us into an endless grind which we cannot stand so that we're forever beholden to Blizzard with our subscriptions. Because reasons!!!!1!!one! I mean you can't really deny facts can you?

PS: Yeah this is pretty much what I have been saying for months now every time one of those cancerous "RNG is terrible design" threads pops up. I am continually amazed by the resistance people have to logic and reason when it can all be explained by an elaborate conspiracy theory.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Raelbo]

What the hell are you talking about?

maybe I should have put a /s in there somewhere. You linked evidence of what the design intent was. To any rational person it should make sense, but not so to some of the people here (hence my sarcastic reply as if I was one of those people).

[Doffen]

maybe I should have put a /s in there somewhere. You linked evidence of what the design intent was. To any rational person it should make sense, but not so to some of the people here (hence my sarcastic reply as if I was one of those people).

Yeah it was like in one sentence I was like yeah he gets it, then next, wat?

Damn, I am usually good at /s :P Well played!

[Deleted]

do you raid to show off the high ilvl or do you raid for the challenge downing bosses gives you?

gaps between difficulty levels are fine. Maybe a slow down on the warforged/titanforged train would be ok

[zox2]

15 ilvl gap between difficulty levels is fine, but titanforged cap should be below the next tier's mythic loot base ilvl. At least that's how I would do it.

[Raelbo]

but titanforged cap should be below the next tier's mythic loot base ilvl. At least that's how I would do it.

Why? What would be benefit of such a limit, especially considering that it defeats one of the intended purposes of the TF system? (namely to keep older tiers relevant for longer)

[Osmeric]

Yes, it does make people that have less gear feel like they are progressing. That is the problem though. They are progressing without putting any effort into the game.
You should reward players for getting better and doing harder content not for doing the same super easy content over and over again.

Your assertions are not actually an argument. They are just you repeating yourself.

You'd be happier if you shook off this pathological gaming puritanism (defined to be: the nagging fear that someone, somewhere, is getting a reward they don't deserve.) If you can not do that, we'd all be better off if you just detached yourself from WoW. The devs certainly expected a certain fraction of the people who feel like you to quit over it, so leave if you can't deal.

[Hctaz]

I didn't say that and the current system does give higher loot for completing it. The current system isn't stupid and anyone who thinks it is, is more upset that other people can get to their ilvl too without having to do what they do. Mythic content the reward is the challenge itself along with higher ilvl base loot and less chance on titanforging to cap.

That just isn't true. Mythic raiders are often the type of people who min/max everything. Titanforging ruins the fuck out of that for us. It literally has nothing to do with the enjoyment of others for having cool gear. If all the raid difficulties gave the same item level gear and they removed titanforging then I would be MUCH happier than I am right now. I'd rather have LFR drop 930 gear than have to RNG my way to min/maxing my character.

[Deleted]

There's no issue with the ilevels, the only issue is titanforging. I don't really see why mythic should receive crazy ilevel gear since it's niche content people only do for the challenge (they claim). It would be like giving people who achieve 2800+ rating in pvp super high ilevel gear above and beyond what is already available when in reality people don't push arena hard for the gear they do it for the competition and challenge.

Some mythic raiders perhaps need to ask themselves if they raid for the fun of the challenge or so they can feel superior to other players through their ilevel?

[Tusq]

Mythic raiders raids mythic for a combination of gear and the challenge. Stop saying they don't do it for the gear.

e-peening has been part of the game ever since vanilla

[kamuimac]

Taken from Wowhead:

Finally, our Raid Finder item. With a base Item Level of 835, it needs to upgrade 12 times to make it all the way to 895. Long story short, that's a 1 in 4096 chance of being 880. Let's say you get 2-3 items a week from fully clearing Raid Finder. You'd need to run Raid Finder every week for over 21 years in order to have a >50% chance of seeing a 895 item out of Emerald Nightmare LFR. By that time, we'll all be in item level 4000 gear as we play the latest Corgis Unleashed expansion on our VR decks (unlike the rest of this post, this part is entirely factual). But hey, you'll probably have that 895 Raid Finder item. Or you still might not. Still feel mandatory?

This was with made up numbers, and the chance is actually lower but it was written that way to make it easier to explain.

Everyone should read this:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=253854/t...stem-in-legion

How can people honestly go around and complain about this when the chances to even get a lfr item to max is so low is beyond me. Nothing wrong with the game, only players.

a)people are dumb - like really general population is really really dumb .
b)people suck at math - those threads are the best example of that.

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That just isn't true. Mythic raiders are often the type of people who min/max everything. Titanforging ruins the fuck out of that for us. It literally has nothing to do with the enjoyment of others for having cool gear. If all the raid difficulties gave the same item level gear and they removed titanforging then I would be MUCH happier than I am right now. I'd rather have LFR drop 930 gear than have to RNG my way to min/maxing my character.

as its meant to be doin

blizzard already stated so many times that they do not want people to chase BiS lists - yet addicts refuse to let go of that concept.

if you dont like it your loss go play other games.

[Hctaz]

as its meant to be doin

blizzard already stated so many times that they do not want people to chase BiS lists - yet addicts refuse to let go of that concept.

if you dont like it your loss go play other games.

When have they ever said that?The only thing I ever recall about BiS lists was that they didn't want people to obtain BiS and then quit. They wanted to give people an incentive. 5-10 item levels is incentive. 25 item levels is not incentive, it's a necessity. That's especially true when the raid bosses are designed around needing significantly higher item level than the base item level of the raid even drops. Method walked into mythic Tomb with 931 item level avg. In past expansions, that would mean they would absolutely steamroll. They couldn't even kill KJ until they were almost 940 item level with some nerfs. That's just stupid and that's the problem that titanforging causes.

[Kiramouse]

I think the real issue is that people that cleared heroic then moved onto mythic only to find that the mythic gear drops were sometimes only a 5 Ilvl increase for some people. My guild got plenty of 925-935 TF from heroic ToS. we've had weeks we get more upgrades from heroic ToS than we do from mythic ToS. we're only 5/9 M.

[Raiju]

as its meant to be doin

blizzard already stated so many times that they do not want people to chase BiS lists - yet addicts refuse to let go of that concept.

if you dont like it your loss go play other games.

What they state and what they want can be different, and I'm going to use common sense to show why that's the case here:

ActivisionBlizzard's most important figure is Monthly Active Users. This is where they derive all value from for their games and how successful they are / can be. You can see this in the financial reports.

WoW has an issue where you have players - at every level not just top - hit a limit where they personally get very little or nothing out of the game. They'll play for the start of the expansion, and maybe see whats new in a patch but they won't stay because they exhaust the content that's available in their comfort zone, or to top end the content they feel is relevant to them.

Legion has been heavily designed to keep people playing, and theres obvious financial reasons why. You can argue that the blizzard developers attempted to do it in a way that was good or bad, but that is the overarching goal. The chance someone can get any upgrade, or a new legendary, and constantly improve their artifact continues players on the gear treadmill even if they've cleared current content so they they are more powerful in the next. It undeniably keeps people playing longer in the effort to improve their character - which is the core of the game after all.

The blizzard developers don't want you to exactly chase BiS lists, but they do want you to be playing every month.

[kamuimac]

What they state and what they want can be different, and I'm going to use common sense to show why that's the case here:

ActivisionBlizzard's most important figure is Monthly Active Users. This is where they derive all value from for their games and how successful they are / can be. You can see this in the financial reports.

WoW has an issue where you have players - at every level not just top - hit a limit where they personally get very little or nothing out of the game. They'll play for the start of the expansion, and maybe see whats new in a patch but they won't stay because they exhaust the content that's available in their comfort zone, or to top end the content they feel is relevant to them.

Legion has been heavily designed to keep people playing, and theres obvious financial reasons why. You can argue that the blizzard developers attempted to do it in a way that was good or bad, but that is the overarching goal. The chance someone can get any upgrade, or a new legendary, and constantly improve their artifact continues players on the gear treadmill even if they've cleared current content so they they are more powerful in the next. It undeniably keeps people playing longer in the effort to improve their character - which is the core of the game after all.

The blizzard developers don't want you to exactly chase BiS lists, but they do want you to be playing every month.

true - but then again - people who raid mythic are meaningless from broader persective - best example is recent dataminging of infernal mount droping now from LFR - because lfr audience is what bring them $$$$ not mythic raiders.

some people just live in imaginary world where they think that just because they kill harder bosses their opinion matters more - titanforging is here to stay and we can expect even more of things like this in 8,0 because its working.

same with arftifact skins - people farm the f..... out of those instead chasing "if ill run MoS 1000 more times maybe ill get that +5 itemlevel on this 1 slot"