Are rotations hard in FFXIV?

[Ifeanychukwu]

Lol with probably 2-3 times the current amount of skills wow has

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Some FFXIV jobs may have a few more abilities than some of the classes in WoW but a lot of the time those extra abilities are pretty unnecessary, even worse before the prune they did with this expansion.

That said, I enjoy rotations in both WoW and FFXIV. I feel like FFXIV requires more thought to regularly perform rotations but WoW has higher skill ceilings for the rotations of most classes.

[Sorrior]

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Some FFXIV jobs may have a few more abilities than some of the classes in WoW but a lot of the time those extra abilities are pretty unnecessary, even worse before the prune they did with this expansion.

That said, I enjoy rotations in both WoW and FFXIV. I feel like FFXIV requires more thought to regularly perform rotations but WoW has higher skill ceilings for the rotations of most classes.

Ehhh after using a controller mod for wow ffxiv especially pre prune guves me far less siggle room. Wow classes overall do have less skills and a controller is not an ossue for mmos at all as the guy i quoted was implying.

Also i do recommend console port mod

[Katchii]

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Some FFXIV jobs may have a few more abilities than some of the classes in WoW but a lot of the time those extra abilities are pretty unnecessary, even worse before the prune they did with this expansion.

That said, I enjoy rotations in both WoW and FFXIV. I feel like FFXIV requires more thought to regularly perform rotations but WoW has higher skill ceilings for the rotations of most classes.

I think you're grossly exaggerating the difference in the number of skills needed by some classes to perform well in either game.

FFXIV easiest caster IMO, is Red Mage. For you to perform well you need to use (not going to put Ver in front of everything as it's annoying) Jolt/Jolt II, Impact, Fire, Thunder, Stone, Fire, Holy, Flare, Scatter, Fleche, Contre Sixte, Corps-a-corps, Riposte, Zwerchhau, Redoublement, Displacement, Embolden and Manafication. There are a few others but they don't HAVE to be used in order to perform adequately, but the ones listed are necessary to do well in either single or multiple target situations. That's 18 skills MINIMUM in order to perform well. If all the skills were included there's a total of 26 skills that will be used relatively frequently that give some sort of utility or bonus to playing the class to the full extent of it's ability The only ability I didn't count is Tether because I personally have never used it as I just don't see the point in PvE situations when you have other better options or it won't do a damn thing anyway.

For WoW, as equivalent a caster I can think of would likely be Arcane Mage. For this class, according to Icy Veins the bulds it uses and suggested rotation, you have Runes of Power, Mark of Aluneth, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Arcane Missiles, Charged Up, Supernova, Arcane Barrage, Arcane Explosion, and Arcane Blast. That's every ability you will need in order to succeed in both single target and multi target situations. That's 10 abilities.

FFXIV classes can have up to 2.5 times the number of abilities a class in WoW has, that's not just "a few."

That said, I've never found FFXIV to be hugely complicated or any more difficult than WoW since the learning curve is really forgiving in FFXIV with you getting little bits and pieces of your full kit over the course of your leveling experience and having the 2.5 second cooldown (which is 2.5x greater than WoWs). I'm guessing the 2.5 second cooldown is somewhat to blame for having 2.5x more abilities.

[Wrecktangle]

Lol with probably 2-3 times the current amount of skills wow has

# of skills is only an iota of depth.

I think you're grossly exaggerating the difference in the number of skills needed by some classes to perform well in either game.

FFXIV easiest caster IMO, is Red Mage. For you to perform well you need to use (not going to put Ver in front of everything as it's annoying) Jolt/Jolt II, Impact, Fire, Thunder, Stone, Fire, Holy, Flare, Scatter, Fleche, Contre Sixte, Corps-a-corps, Riposte, Zwerchhau, Redoublement, Displacement, Embolden and Manafication. There are a few others but they don't HAVE to be used in order to perform adequately, but the ones listed are necessary to do well in either single or multiple target situations. That's 18 skills MINIMUM in order to perform well. If all the skills were included there's a total of 26 skills that will be used relatively frequently that give some sort of utility or bonus to playing the class to the full extent of it's ability The only ability I didn't count is Tether because I personally have never used it as I just don't see the point in PvE situations when you have other better options or it won't do a damn thing anyway.

For WoW, as equivalent a caster I can think of would likely be Arcane Mage. For this class, according to Icy Veins the bulds it uses and suggested rotation, you have Runes of Power, Mark of Aluneth, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Arcane Missiles, Charged Up, Supernova, Arcane Barrage, Arcane Explosion, and Arcane Blast. That's every ability you will need in order to succeed in both single target and multi target situations. That's 10 abilities.

FFXIV classes can have up to 2.5 times the number of abilities a class in WoW has, that's not just "a few."

That said, I've never found FFXIV to be hugely complicated or any more difficult than WoW since the learning curve is really forgiving in FFXIV with you getting little bits and pieces of your full kit over the course of your leveling experience and having the 2.5 second cooldown (which is 2.5x greater than WoWs). I'm guessing the 2.5 second cooldown is somewhat to blame for having 2.5x more abilities.

IMHO, FF14 does a much better job with casters complexity than WoW. I personally think WoW does a significantly better job at a melee complexity. While it's true that FF14 has generally more skills to press, a lot of them tend to be exceptionally one dimensional (ESPECIALLY on the melee side). I.e. does one specific function, never changes, or requires decision making.

[Katchii]

# of skills is only an iota of depth.



IMHO, FF14 does a much better job with casters complexity than WoW. I personally think WoW does a significantly better job at a melee complexity. While it's true that FF14 has generally more skills to press, a lot of them tend to be exceptionally one dimensional (ESPECIALLY on the melee side). I.e. does one specific function, never changes, or requires decision making.

I agree, but I'm not sure which I prefer honestly because they're both functional and both lend themselves pretty well to the encounter paradigm each game uses. I think if WoW tried to adopt the FFXIV style it would fail horribly because of how fast paced things are and the GCD would make it incredibly frenetic on the player. Transversely, I think if FFXIV tried to adopt WoW's fewer button style with no real combos it would be horribly boring.

I do wish that FFXIV could deal with the ability bloat because as I said in my previous post, having 26 abilities that pretty much need to be keybinded (keybound?) means that I have over 2 full hotbars of abilities that need to be accessible. If I didn't have a MMO mouse and gaming keypad I'm not even sure how I'd play a class like that with any semblance of skill or competence without getting some serious ergonomic injuries in my wrist and fingers.

[Wrecktangle]

I agree, but I'm not sure which I prefer honestly because they're both functional and both lend themselves pretty well to the encounter paradigm each game uses. I think if WoW tried to adopt the FFXIV style it would fail horribly because of how fast paced things are and the GCD would make it incredibly frenetic on the player. Transversely, I think if FFXIV tried to adopt WoW's fewer button style with no real combos it would be horribly boring.

I do wish that FFXIV could deal with the ability bloat because as I said in my previous post, having 26 abilities that pretty much need to be keybinded (keybound?) means that I have over 2 full hotbars of abilities that need to be accessible. If I didn't have a MMO mouse and gaming keypad I'm not even sure how I'd play a class like that with any semblance of skill or competence without getting some serious ergonomic injuries in my wrist and fingers.

I don't mind the longer GCD in FF14 when you have enough oGCD's to press. I don't particularly care for the combo system because it's so binary and makes things a bit too rigid. I like WoW's approach to individual abilities having more depth. I don't think WoW needed to prune as much as it did, but I definitely think FF14 still has a lot of room to prune and tighten the keybind real estate requirements.

I'm curious to see how it expands over the next expansion or 2.

[Katchii]

I don't mind the longer GCD in FF14 when you have enough oGCD's to press. I don't particularly care for the combo system because it's so binary and makes things a bit too rigid. I like WoW's approach to individual abilities having more depth. I don't think WoW needed to prune as much as it did, but I definitely think FF14 still has a lot of room to prune and tighten the keybind real estate requirements.

I'm curious to see how it expands over the next expansion or 2.

My sentiments exactly. There has to be a happy medium between the two.

[Pyro1990]

# of skills is only an iota of depth.



IMHO, FF14 does a much better job with casters complexity than WoW. I personally think WoW does a significantly better job at a melee complexity. While it's true that FF14 has generally more skills to press, a lot of them tend to be exceptionally one dimensional (ESPECIALLY on the melee side). I.e. does one specific function, never changes, or requires decision making.

To me melee feels a lot more rotational in FFXIV than wow. In wow now everything is priority based where you always have a couple options you need to pick between. In FFXIV its a lot of "i just used this so I have to use that" with the combos. I guess there is some decision making in what combo you are going to use. FFXIV also adds a little depth with positionals being applied to certain things but thats more just memorizing which ones are where.

[Wrecktangle]

To me melee feels a lot more rotational in FFXIV than wow. In wow now everything is priority based where you always have a couple options you need to pick between. In FFXIV its a lot of "i just used this so I have to use that" with the combos. I guess there is some decision making in what combo you are going to use. FFXIV also adds a little depth with positionals being applied to certain things but thats more just memorizing which ones are where.

I don't like positionals at all honestly. They sound really good on paper, but in practice, it limits the player, it limits the tank, and it limits encounter design. Couple that with the netcode being complete garbage and the long GCD and you get a really quirky mechanic. I will admit that I LIKE the way SAM handles positionals.

One of the reasons I really like the tank as dps paradigm we have is that I can basically be a DPS, with more responsibility and not have to worry about positionals. It's a surprisingly good mix for me as a player. It's one of the reasons I played a Ret. I loved having support options that a pure DPS didn't have. I loved having to watch the raid and use BoP, Bubble to soak a mechanic, or freedom some idiot who got rooted, etc. As most people know I like to be engaged in the game when I'm playing so the more responsibility you can shove on me the better.

I'd be more than willing to shake up FF14's rotation rigidity (again on the melee/tank side more so than caster)

[Pyro1990]

I don't like positionals at all honestly. They sound really good on paper, but in practice, it limits the player, it limits the tank, and it limits encounter design. Couple that with the netcode being complete garbage and the long GCD and you get a really quirky mechanic. I will admit that I LIKE the way SAM handles positionals.

One of the reasons I really like the tank as dps paradigm we have is that I can basically be a DPS, with more responsibility and not have to worry about positionals. It's a surprisingly good mix for me as a player. It's one of the reasons I played a Ret. I loved having support options that a pure DPS didn't have. I loved having to watch the raid and use BoP, Bubble to soak a mechanic, or freedom some idiot who got rooted, etc. As most people know I like to be engaged in the game when I'm playing so the more responsibility you can shove on me the better.

I'd be more than willing to shake up FF14's rotation rigidity (again on the melee/tank side more so than caster)

I agree on positionals not being great. Its why I switched from monk to sam. Monk felt like every ability was a positional and you were constantly fighting the tank, the encounter, and your memory trying to get them all right. Eventually I just got frustrated with it and switched.

[Sorrior]

# of skills is only an iota of depth.



IMHO, FF14 does a much better job with casters complexity than WoW. I personally think WoW does a significantly better job at a melee complexity. While it's true that FF14 has generally more skills to press, a lot of them tend to be exceptionally one dimensional (ESPECIALLY on the melee side). I.e. does one specific function, never changes, or requires decision making.

Look at what i was quoting. Was not about depth but someone implying because controller which usually imolies skill numbers and ability to use them.

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I agree, but I'm not sure which I prefer honestly because they're both functional and both lend themselves pretty well to the encounter paradigm each game uses. I think if WoW tried to adopt the FFXIV style it would fail horribly because of how fast paced things are and the GCD would make it incredibly frenetic on the player. Transversely, I think if FFXIV tried to adopt WoW's fewer button style with no real combos it would be horribly boring.

I do wish that FFXIV could deal with the ability bloat because as I said in my previous post, having 26 abilities that pretty much need to be keybinded (keybound?) means that I have over 2 full hotbars of abilities that need to be accessible. If I didn't have a MMO mouse and gaming keypad I'm not even sure how I'd play a class like that with any semblance of skill or competence without getting some serious ergonomic injuries in my wrist and fingers.

Ise a controller? And wellltjey DID remove alot of skills..i alsk think they will add in the one button thing from pvp next xpac

[Katchii]

Ise a controller? And wellltjey DID remove alot of skills..i alsk think they will add in the one button thing from pvp next xpac

I'm sure I could use a controller to do it, but I've already gotten through the learning curve on MMO's using a mouse and keyboard. If I don't have to, I'd rather not have to put myself through the learning curve again. Besides, I've played some games with a controller and the finesse and precision you can get from a mouse and keyboard just isn't possible with a controller and I've grown far too accustomed to that. I know it sounds minor, but it makes a big difference being able to move the camera while running and using an ability all at the same time. That's not easy to do on a controller, and even if it's possible it requires some pretty serious finger gymnastics. I use the MMO mouse and gaming keypad to prevent ergonomic strain on fingers and wrists so moving to a controller would actually be detrimental to that since I'd have to do weird stuff with my hands to perform and control at the same level I do now.

TL; DR - Controller is obviously possible, but M+KB is better so I don't want to for various reasons.

[leviathonlx]

I honestly prefer many of the WoW classes priority systems over the rigid FF14 rotations. Many of the FF14 rotations annoy me as well since it feels like 90% of Squares class design is based on giving every class a damn buff to keep up. I do hope they continue a little bit of pruning next expac as well as some jobs still are a bit heavy on the bloat side. A simple one would just be moving the PvP combo bars into PvE if they want to continue with the rigid rotation system.

[Echocho]

I honestly prefer many of the WoW classes priority systems over the rigid FF14 rotations.

I'm the complete opposite. Playing proactive is so much more fun than reactive for me. One of the main reasons I don't like WoW anymore is because every expansion the predictable spec I love gets turned into a priority/RNG crap fest and I have to find a new one. I believe balance druid and affliction warlock are the only dps specs remaining so one of those should be destroyed in 8.0

[Wrecktangle]

I honestly prefer many of the WoW classes priority systems over the rigid FF14 rotations. Many of the FF14 rotations annoy me as well since it feels like 90% of Squares class design is based on giving every class a damn buff to keep up. I do hope they continue a little bit of pruning next expac as well as some jobs still are a bit heavy on the bloat side. A simple one would just be moving the PvP combo bars into PvE if they want to continue with the rigid rotation system.

I'm not sold on the PVP system. While I do like it, I don't think it's compelling enough on its own for PVE.

Here are some current thoughts on the combat system I am wondering about:

• Button Bloat. Everyone is thinking about it. Assuming they keep their template (5 new skills ish per job), in order to have "about the same" buttons you'd need to free up 5 slots. That'll be tough I think. I don't think they want "more" buttons than current.
• TP. Throughout ARR/HW I do remember TP being an issue. I don't think TP drain is nearly as relevant these days, so I wonder if a TP system rework is in order. Something akin to FF11 where TP is generated and spent on powerful abilities. A simple scrap of the entire system?
• oGCDs. I really like the idea of these types of abilities. They give me that fast paced "ani-cancel" style of play I loved in BNS. I'd really like to see this system expanded on. Give more of them, give them interactions with the 'combos' and other abilities, allow cooldown resets/reductions, etc. to prop up usage. I don't want a system where it's a mindless spend on cooldown as it is now. I'd actually support a tie in to a revamped TP system. I.e. build up TP spend on oGCD, oGCD has actual effects that do other things that impact your in game decisions. Give an option to horde TP to dump on DPS checks etc.
• Tank Stances. I'd really like to see them move away from them in 5.0. Make them more organic decision processes rather than flat toggles.

Look at what i was quoting. Was not about depth but someone implying because controller which usually imolies skill numbers and ability to use them.

Thread asks:

Are rotations hard in FFXIV?

Rando #1 responds with:

Cannot be too hard because it is designed with a controller.

You respond with:

Lol with probably 2-3 times the current amount of skills wow has

I respond with:

# of skills is only an iota of depth.

Do you see where your mistake was because you misunderstood the context? The poster you responded to did not mention number of skills and a players ability to use them anywhere in that post thus, discussing them as any sort of merit to FF14 was in error.

I'm the complete opposite. Playing proactive is so much more fun than reactive for me. One of the main reasons I don't like WoW anymore is because every expansion the predictable spec I love gets turned into a priority/RNG crap fest and I have to find a new one. I believe balance druid and affliction warlock are the only dps specs remaining so one of those should be destroyed in 8.0

I get pretty bored that something goes 1 2 1 2 1 2 2 2 1 1 2 1 repeat. I don't think that's good game design at all, but I recognize that some people just want a phone it in relaxing experience in gaming because they have more exciting jobs/lives etc. My job is all spreadsheets, phone calls, and analysis. It's boring shit. That's why my hobbies are pretty competitive stuff (USTA tennis, high end gaming, building/modifying/racing cars, etc.). You could be a cali wildfire fighter, (hats off) and need some really vanilla hobbys to decompress.

[Katchii]

I agree on positionals not being great. Its why I switched from monk to sam. Monk felt like every ability was a positional and you were constantly fighting the tank, the encounter, and your memory trying to get them all right. Eventually I just got frustrated with it and switched.

It's primarily why I stick with casters in FFXIV for DPS or Ninja which only has like 2 positionals that aren't used that often. Melee DPS in this game are just not all that fun to me because of how hectic encounters. I hate that my performance is tied directly to how good or bad the tank is at positioning the enemy. With casters I never have to worry about that, as the tank I'm in charge of it.

I like the idea of combos too, and positionals but they don't need to be an integral part of every single melee DPS class. Make a core DoT, buff or debuff be activated from a combo with the rest of your skills being a priority system similar to WoW.

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I'm the complete opposite. Playing proactive is so much more fun than reactive for me. One of the main reasons I don't like WoW anymore is because every expansion the predictable spec I love gets turned into a priority/RNG crap fest and I have to find a new one. I believe balance druid and affliction warlock are the only dps specs remaining so one of those should be destroyed in 8.0

Neither of those have a set rotation either, just a priority system like everything else.

[Echocho]

]
Neither of those have a set rotation either, just a priority system like everything else.

Really? I remember them as being dots and filler. No surprise wack-a-mole gameplay, predictable and non stressful. But I quit during nighthold due to me being annoyed with the whole titanforging and RNG bull crap so things might have changed since then.

[Katchii]

Really? I remember them as being dots and filler. No surprise wack-a-mole gameplay, predictable and non stressful. But I quit during nighthold due to me being annoyed with the whole titanforging and RNG bull crap so things might have changed since then.

That's basically true. For AffLock it's DoT's + Drain Life/ Malefic Grasp if talented and Unstable Affliction when you have the Soul Shards to use, using the Soul Gathering Artifact Weapon ability as long as you have 2+ to gather to keep the buff up. But the DoT's have different durations and it's somewhat RNG when you get Soul Shards so there's no "rotation" as I said, it's just a priority system just like every other class in that sense. It's not proc based so it's not as hectic as other classes, but it still doesn't have a set rotation.

Balance is similar, much more laid back priorities with very little RNG procs to manage, but still no set rotation.

[Katchii]

Much like most jobs in FFXIV then that also has a buff or a dot or two that needs to be managed. FFXIV is also on a priority system because of it.

Most melee classes have pretty set rotations built into that priority system though with the combos. WoW doesn't have anything like the rigid combos the FFXIV melee have.

[Toppy]

That just sounds like the filler is more complicated than with your affliction warlock for example, consisting of a bunch of abilities in a chain.

To an extent yes, DPS in FFXIV tends to be more about proper management of buffs and debuffs and ensuring you're using the right combo at the right time. Like MNK, use the wrong combo and forgot to reapply your damage buff? Forgot to reapply the dot? Didnt line up your cooldowns with your abilities?

DPS rotations in FFXIV are a bit tighter and more punishing than WoW counterparts, with less room to make mistakes (since you're always building towards something) whereas a mistake on a WoW class is less that you messed up your rotation and more you didnt know it in the first place since messing up a WoW rotation for most classes is damn near impossible.

People point out RDM often for being really easy, but even that class has room for fucking up if you dont follow the proper priority or dive in to quickly since not finishing your melee combo is a huge loss that cannot be recovered.