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  1. #121
    Deleted
    I killed Kil'Jaeden Mythic a couple of weeks ago and I think this raid is a total pile of garbage. The bosses are toxic, unoriginal, unforgiving and there are far too many soaking mechanics which led to class stacking and immunities being completely overpowered. Even after many nerfs having several rogues and mages still is a massive advantage. At first it was a requirement (5 rogues KJ first kill say hi).

    Pre nerf mistress, Avatar and Kil'Jaeden were neither good, nor fun encounters to progress and by far the biggest offenders. As for the other bosses, well soak here soak there and they roll over, the only ones a little fun are Sisters and Maiden. Unless you got jihadi melee, that is.

    Neither from an encounter nor class balance pov was this a pleasurable raid to clear and I'm glad I only have to farm that shithole a bit more, before Antorus releases. It's obvious this place was rushed and just like the rest of 7.2 it was released to push out some content, while the real effort and resources went to Argus and hopefully Antorus.
    Last edited by mmocb78b025c1c; 2017-10-20 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles55 View Post
    I've enjoyed ToS a lot. I really dislike maiden purely because one idiot can wipe the group. Mechanically it's actually pretty cool and unique. It's worth noting that I only clear heroic each week and don't mythic raid and from what I've heard about mythic ToS my opinion would be different if I did.
    Yep. Average raiders are happy, mythic raiders are not. Mythic participation has fallen off.

    Time to stop bothering to try to cater to mythic raiders. It's not working, and causes problems for the rest of the game. Just remove that difficulty level.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  3. #123
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Yep. Average raiders are happy, mythic raiders are not. Mythic participation has fallen off.

    Time to stop bothering to try to cater to mythic raiders. It's not working, and causes problems for the rest of the game. Just remove that difficulty level.
    But then what do mythic raiders do? We clear HC in the first week.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Draggosh View Post
    But then what do mythic raiders do? We clear HC in the first week.
    You either transition to casual raiders or you leave.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  5. #125
    Deleted
    I feel it is missing some staples fights that haven't been replaced by interesting new ideas (the sisters floor is pretty cool). Also, mythic progress is highly frustrating because there are too many "one mistake = raid wipe" mechanics, which can be understandable for first kills (especially early kills) but makes farm, and getting back to progress very frustrating.

    I think there needs to be some staples in each raid too:
    - Buttclenching DPS/Tank/Healer check where you are running on fumes for first kills / killing after enrage
    - Add control / based fights
    - Council based fights
    - Raid organisation fight (whole raid moves here, then there) or positioning checks

    To this you can add one or two really good new mechanics or combos and we are good to go.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Yep. Average raiders are happy, mythic raiders are not. Mythic participation has fallen off.

    Time to stop bothering to try to cater to mythic raiders. It's not working, and causes problems for the rest of the game. Just remove that difficulty level.
    How about just designing mythic in a non-retarded way? We have a simple formula, each difficulty adds 1 extra mechanic to the boss, and ups the dps / hps check to accommodate for expected higher gear levels of the raid. Adding 3 mechanics instead of 1 or making every other mechanic target 50% more players just adds to the chaos of the fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You either transition to casual raiders or you leave.
    You mean Blizzard should actively seek to get rid of a part of their playerbase and lose their subs? What's the benefit of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMaria View Post
    I think there needs to be some staples in each raid too:
    - Buttclenching DPS/Tank/Healer check where you are running on fumes for first kills / killing after enrage
    - Add control / based fights
    - Council based fights
    - Raid organisation fight (whole raid moves here, then there) or positioning checks

    To this you can add one or two really good new mechanics or combos and we are good to go.
    Nearly every tomb mythic boss was "Raid organisation fight (whole raid moves here, then there) or positioning check", and that's the issue, many a guild has few people who do good dps / hps but are not that good on raid awareness, in world top 100 guilds you just kick / bench these people but in lower guilds it should be possible to let some people get by without having to handle a mechanic every single fight, as these are often the people who carry the guild through number checks because that's what they're good at. When you design bosses like Mistress ("sorry Jim, you can't aoe pad on eels this time") it just diminishes the fun of a lot of players who want to do "big deeps".

    I think Blizzard forgot somewhere between "game should be challenging" and "game should encourage you to farm upgrades for your character so the player activity stays high" that the game should also be fun. Wasn't that the motto of Blizzard? Fun(tm)?
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2017-10-20 at 04:21 PM.

  7. #127
    Least favorite raid since HoF. I did like it at first, the heroic and normal versions are good for what they are supposed to be. Mythic is pretty awful, after NH mythic being kinda shitty, ToV being far too hard for most and EN being a joke Legion has shit the bed on mythic so far.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  8. #128
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You either transition to casual raiders or you leave.
    And why should Blizzard only create content for you? You are not the only one who wants to enjoy the game.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by GenKIDama View Post
    loved hc, hating most of mythic, hard to judge
    A common feeling for ToS and NH. More fuel for the mythic burn out and discouragement fire.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Least favorite raid since HoF. I did like it at first, the heroic and normal versions are good for what they are supposed to be. Mythic is pretty awful, after NH mythic being kinda shitty, ToV being far too hard for most and EN being a joke Legion has shit the bed on mythic so far.
    Tbh I believe mythic should be a noticeable step up from heroic, but not a mountain to climb, when you put requirements to be a "mythic raider" really high you create tons of social drama when guilds have to drop some of their players because they don't cut it anymore, or they can't recruit "good enough" players and disband, lower pop realms die out (I've just seen one of these happen, a realm with only 2 guilds above 5 mythic - one 7/9 and other 8/9 both disbanded within a week of each other), players are forced to reroll to "mandatory classes" because the step up without "perfect setup" is just way above their skill levels, guilds start policing players to farm AP and so forth because bosses are hard so they think it's justified, that leads to player burnout, some of them drop out and you're back in "trying to recruit good enough players" limbo, and so forth.

    WOW is an MMO, a game not only about skill, but also about the social structure. Social structure is all but eroded on the lower levels of raiding, because people opt for no-strings-attached pugging rather than forming social bonds and joining guilds, last place where guilds matter is mythic raiding, but yeah, let's destroy these too.

  11. #131
    Banned Video Games's Avatar
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    For all of wods faults, it had better raids. I'd take another 13 months in mythic hfc than another 2 months of mythic tos.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    For all of wods faults, it had better raids. I'd take another 13 months in mythic hfc than another 2 months of mythic tos.
    I feel the same.

    ToS is one of the worst raids i've participated, especially it's Mythic difficulty. Blizzard has failed with both tuning and mechanic miserably.
    Last edited by TOM_RUS; 2017-10-20 at 05:19 PM.

  13. #133
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    Fallen Avitar and KJ. The rest of the encounters I'd be happy if we could skip, they are shit.

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