Thoughts on the T21 set bonuses?

[Shirofune]

To be fair it might be fine with soul of the slayer, specially it we use the t20 2pc along with it. Death sweep hits like a truck. It's why I wish demonic appetite had a chance to proc off blade dance. But would it be worth the chance of a soul process or not? No idea. It would need testing since we would be doing at least 3 death sweeps in that demonic duration rather than the 2 we currently do.

Don't think so, just by the souls iteration. The more CS you cast, the stronger Demonic becomes.

[Skayth]

No more T20 = no more first blood = no more blade dance for single target

I think ilvl (crit and mastery) will overpower fast the T20 2p.

Moreover, on multitarget fights, raddeon will take one slot, so no 4P T21 + 2P T20.
On the dh discord, some sim even show raddeon as bis for single target fights.

I hope this is true. But that means that haste is going to waste for demonic beyond being Gcd capped. Are you talking cb build or demonic?

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Don't think so, just by the souls iteration. The more CS you cast, the stronger Demonic becomes.

Oh i understand that very well. But rng is rng. I've literally gone almost 30 seconds without seeing a single soul pop and that is some bs

[Shirofune]

Oh i understand that very well. But rng is rng. I've literally gone almost 30 seconds without seeing a single soul pop and that is some bs

I understand that, but casting Blade Dance further delays that soul spawn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Deleted]

I hope this is true. But that means that haste is going to waste for demonic beyond being Gcd capped. Are you talking cb build or demonic?

I'm talking about the demonic build

[ufta]

How good (or not good) would Raddon's be with this current iteration of t21 for single target fights?
It reduces the EB cd by 4.5 secs when used against a ST.
I have almost zero experience playing demonic, but I'm assuming that demonic appetite by itself would end up reducing the average cooldown of EB down to what...25 seconds? 30?
Another 4.5 secs off that would be fairly meaningful, it would seem. Like going from 25 secs to 20 secs would give you several more demonic/mini-bloodlust windows over the course of a fight.
Would that be meaningful enough to make Raddon's top-tier in Antorus? 2nd tier?
Math was my worse subject in school. =/

[Deleted]

How good (or not good) would Raddon's be with this current iteration of t21 for single target fights?
It reduces the EB cd by 4.5 secs when used against a ST.
I have almost zero experience playing demonic, but I'm assuming that demonic appetite by itself would end up reducing the average cooldown of EB down to what...25 seconds? 30?
Another 4.5 secs off that would be fairly meaningful, it would seem. Like going from 25 secs to 20 secs would give you several more demonic/mini-bloodlust windows over the course of a fight.
Would that be meaningful enough to make Raddon's top-tier in Antorus? 2nd tier?
Math was my worse subject in school. =/

Well, 4.5 seconds off on pure ST is basically a soul in terms of CD reduction, and given how powerful EB will be (nice damage, generating 105 fury, putting a stronger version of bloodlust while in meta), pretty significant. Will be even stronger if it reduces the average cd to align with priority target switches, and don't even get me started about AoE...

I wonder if 40% haste will be strong enough to force chaincasting of EB instead of waiting for 30 anguish stacks to pop.

[Skayth]

I understand that, but casting Blade Dance further delays that soul spawn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

well thats the thing. If i dont pop a soul, i could have hit death dance, and hit for a crap ton, and simply delayed that soul another second. And if you play demonic, you know to stack a few souls and wait till you are about out of fury and if eyebeam is nowhere near getting off cd (like if its 2 seconds, wait those 2 seconds, and demons bite it because you want those souls for eyebeam post eating all the fury after eyebeam is done, and then lowering the cd even further).

So basically, while best guess scenerio, I know I want to run chaos cleave... but we all know rng factors a shit ton here and sucks. I guess I will want to play it out, and see how it does in practice. I know simply, more than 1 target, chaos cleave beats it out (as rabb will be 9 seconds off eyebeam min) but in st is where I am wondering if practice/reality the one i am possibly suggesting has a possibility of being better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zencurse]

How good (or not good) would Raddon's be with this current iteration of t21 for single target fights?
It reduces the EB cd by 4.5 secs when used against a ST.
I have almost zero experience playing demonic, but I'm assuming that demonic appetite by itself would end up reducing the average cooldown of EB down to what...25 seconds? 30?
Another 4.5 secs off that would be fairly meaningful, it would seem. Like going from 25 secs to 20 secs would give you several more demonic/mini-bloodlust windows over the course of a fight.
Would that be meaningful enough to make Raddon's top-tier in Antorus? 2nd tier?
Math was my worse subject in school. =/

With regard to Raddon's in ST. The ultimate objective is to maximize your demon form uptime yes? So if thats the case the shoulders are likely going to still be better.

Take for example in a scenario where we get 1 extra meta with the shoulders in a fight vs. not using them. That means for Raddons to be "better" it has to give you an additional 30 seconds of meta time. This translates into 4 extra Eye Beam casts (8 seconds of meta time per eye beam x 4 extra casts = 32 seconds of meta). Each cast of eye beam with Raddon's equipped reduces the cooldown of eye beam by 4.5 seconds (assuming Blind Fury). Eye beam's base cooldown is 45 seconds, and is unaffected by haste. This means that every 10 eye beams we cast with Raddon's equipped we essentially get 1 "free" eye beam, as the CDR we've earned grants it to us (4.5 seconds "earned" per Eye Beam x 10 casts = 45 seconds "earned" or 1 extra beam).

As stated earlier, we need to get 4 extra eye beam casts in order to outpace 1 extra meta from the shoulders. That means we need to cast 40 Eye Beams to get 4 "free" eye beams with Raddons. You are now casting a grand total of 44 Eye Beams each with 40.5 second cooldown, aka 1,782 seconds assuming you cast Eye Beam on cooldown on a single target or 29.7 minutes of combat.

29.7 seems absolutely insane, but of course we aren't counting demonic appetite souls giving us another 5 seconds off our Eye Beam. This is where it gets kinda nitty gritty without running some sims but lets say that our GCD is - on average - 1 second long. Let's also be extremely optimistic and say that we are somehow capable of using a Chaos Strike every single global we AREN'T using eye beams. That means about 40 chaos strikes in between each eye beam, 25% of those will generate a soul, so an expected value of 10 souls. That means a total of 50 more seconds of CDR off Eye Beam, moreso than its actual cooldown, meaning that at 40.5 seconds base we'll be looking at a more realistic cooldown on Eye Beam of about 20 seconds granted average soul consumption (and remember we are being extremely theoretical here as we cannot expect to fill every global with Chaos Strikes, nor will our GCD always be 1 second).

So, awesome! Using the same math as a before, that mean nasty 29.7 minutes of combat actually now looks like 6.66 minutes of combat (4.5 seconds "earned" per eye beam * 5 casts = 22.5 seconds, approximately our more realistic eye beam cooldown, counting souls AND raddons; still need 4 extra beams, 4*5=20 beams at about 20 seconds per cd = 400 seconds of combat).

Obviously this is NOWHERE near precise but its a good enough estimation we can get in our heads without using sim tools. At 6.66 minutes of combat a shoulder equipped Demon Hunter will have gotten 2 extra metas (the 2nd bonus one will have just ended assuming ~2min meta cd). Meaning that Raddons would have to somehow double its value in that time frame in order to outpace the shoulders. Heck this even assumes you are somehow a god of chaos striking and soul rng so its realistic value is actually even lower.

So the short answer is no, raddons probably won't be looking good in single target, at least vs. the shoulders (vs. the ring is another discussion but I doubt it'd beat that either). However though, throw a couple extra targets into the mix? Raddons is starting to look pretty attractive now.

[Deleted]

*snip*

You're only counting meta uptime. Keep in mind only Eye Beam will grant the 40% haste buff that perfectly aligns with a Demonic Meta and a full fury bar, giving us more chances to unleash hell.

Meta uptime alone is one thing, meta uptime and more generation and more haste and quite a lot of damage due to strong Eye Beams is another.

[Ysho]

You're only counting meta uptime. Keep in mind only Eye Beam will grant the 40% haste buff that perfectly aligns with a Demonic Meta and a full fury bar, giving us more chances to unleash hell.

Meta uptime alone is one thing, meta uptime and more generation and more haste and quite a lot of damage due to strong Eye Beams is another.

In conclusion, it looks like I’ll be washing my hair with Head & Shoulders next patch :P

[Skayth]

In conclusion, it looks like I’ll be washing my hair with Head & Shoulders next patch :P

you will still probably want anger. With it you cap fury fast with demons bite

[Dimzum]

You're only counting meta uptime. Keep in mind only Eye Beam will grant the 40% haste buff that perfectly aligns with a Demonic Meta and a full fury bar, giving us more chances to unleash hell.

Meta uptime alone is one thing, meta uptime and more generation and more haste and quite a lot of damage due to strong Eye Beams is another.

Demon Reborn resets Eye Beam though.

[Deleted]

Demon Reborn resets Eye Beam though.

Doesn‘t matter.
Meta duration is 30 seconds. A zero souls spawn would be very very unlucky.

[Puzzony]

Biggest problem i see now that you cannot infinitely add the +8 sec duration to an ongoing meta via eye beam, so you are forced to come out of meta. With a set designed around these synergies, it is a major flaw imo.

[Kezuma]

Doesn‘t matter.
Meta duration is 30 seconds. A zero souls spawn would be very very unlucky.

It does matter , you get 2 back to back 40%haste buffs

[Skayth]

It does matter , you get 2 back to back 40%haste buffs

Pretty sure it will be best for single target and multiple targets without stunnable adds. The moment stunnable adds come unto play chaos Nova will probably become better as it will spawn more souls. At least that's how I see it.

Adds? Every 30sec to min is the usual spawn rate. Demon reborn is about every 2 min to 3 min depending on relics and legendary.

[Slykila]

I haven't seen anyone address this issue yet, but we only get the buff for a completed cast of Eye Beam right? As it stands now we get broken out of our cast by trinkets proccing and whatnot, has this issue been addressed by Bliz?

[Shirofune]

I haven't seen anyone address this issue yet, but we only get the buff for a completed cast of Eye Beam right? As it stands now we get broken out of our cast by trinkets proccing and whatnot, has this issue been addressed by Bliz?

As far as I know, nope.

Then again, it's something we can 'avoid'. Just don't cast CS just before using Eye Beam or wait for a lil' bit if you see the Inner Demon proc happening.

I know it's annoying as fuck and it should be fixed since it's something not intended at all, but we can play around it.

[Deleted]

40% haste, lawl
They really drove themselves in a corner with t21.
Still a weak bonus for ST on one hand, way too strong on m+ (did 2.6 million overall dps the other day on live, eithout even trying: could have used 80% mastery gear on memebeam grps. Can't wait to try out t21 on m+ )

[Bugg]

Well ...

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes
Players with 2/9 or more bosses killed in Mythic mode (T20)

... And it's the same when you check parse on warcraftlog

Thanks for this!