Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ghargatuloth]

I meant more the fact that some people were actually having an argument and not just discussion over it.

Isn't that all people do? "You don't want the same thing as me, there can be only one!"

Honestly, seems like people feel that if they try to constantly advertise to Blizzard that they would be ok with only ONE feature as long as it's the one THEY want it'll somehow make it happen.

Not to mention declaring everyone else's ideas as stupid.

[Steampunkette]

Sylvanas isn't expected to take a sword beating, since Rangers usually fight from a far and also have heightened senses so they can dodge most arrows.

Tyrande is more of a diplomat than a fighter, so for her it makes more sense to wear something light. And her current outfit isn't too skimpy.

And don't act as there aren't male characters not wearing enough armor: Malfurion, Illidan, most demons,

Male Power Fantasy: Conan. Barely wearing anything but a loincloth, covered in muscles, looking to do damage.

Male Sexual Fantasy: Red Sonya. Woman in the same, but without the muscles in favor of big breasts and hairless legs/armpits 'cause girlbarians have razors.

There's a big difference between men who are presented as powerful and women who may or not be presented as powerful, but who are -still- presented as sexy or sexually available. And while they might look somewhat similar on the surface, scratch it and you'll find something completely different.

Since I do some writing too, and am into worldbuilding I'll give my 2 cents on this. What I do most of the time is write out a character, its intentions and actions and then later on decide on the gender, since that shouldn't be relevant when writing a good character, especially in fantasy and sci fi.

Pretty much the best way to handle it, yeah. Just write up the character fulfilling their role in the story, then decide which pronouns they like, later. When men and women are put into a crisis they react in pretty much the same five ways. Fight, Flight, Freeze, Flop, Friend.

Fight and Flight are well known, but Freezing in terror is something people do a lot. And some people faint in times of danger or distress. But there's a whole lot more who try to placate the danger if they can, offering to buy the pirates in the tavern a round of beers to cool things off, for example, instead of getting beaten down.

The gender of the character shouldn't determine which they do. Really, the best way to portray women outside of dangerous situations, as a guy, is to learn about what it's like to be a woman by reading their works or understanding societal pressures that affect women. Gender Studies could help with that. Because outside of how society treats women, we're basically the same as men.

[Smokinya]

*facepalm* Gee. I wonder if there are social factors that keep women out of the Tech Industry and particularly game design? I wonder if there are social issues and presumptions that push women out of gaming in general or atmospheres which make women feel like outsiders.

Gosh. I wonder what that would be like.

The reason all Warlocks are Warlocks instead of Warlocks and Witches is 'cause the writers defaulted to male and went from there. Same thing with the Priest class even though the Priestesses of Elune are a big part of the lore. Hunters and Huntresses and so forth. The terms do not exist in WoW lore as if it were the vaccum of space, they were created by People in our world and their decisions reflect their opinions. Why didn't they make the title/name/class shift to Priestess or Witch or Huntress or whatever when they made the character generator? 'Cause it didn't matter. It wasn't important. Why bother? Default: Male.

It's everywhere and it's so simplistic that you're defending it as if Azeroth REALLY EXISTS and their language doesn't include the word Witch. Like the characters who don't dress themselves, the language was chosen by real world authors. Pretending as if their biases and presumptions don't exist and the resulting lore is thus perfect is just so much hozen fling.

If you have a product that less than half the population is the primary users of you should try not to alienate those users while making that product more accessible to the rest of the population, that way you get -more- customers. Otherwise you're missing out on a lot of potential profits. And if your professors don't teach you that, I'd seek a different college.

And no. I highly doubt using Warlock and Witch would "Negatively Affect" the lore of the franchise. That's patently ridiculous. Hell, There's even the weapon "Witch Hunter's Harvester" as a scythe presumably used by someone who... hunts witches! So the terminology already exists and is based off, y'know, the English language which was spoken by the writers... so.. .yeah. Your argument is invalid.

And yaaaaay 8.0! I hope we get Naga. I really wanna play either an Arms Warrior with a Trident or a Survival Huntress with same.



That wasn't the point, but you're technically correct.

The point was that when I bring up female characters being portrayed as male sexual fantasies and discuss their "Armor" I usually get someone who tries to make it into me thinking women aren't allowed to be sexy because it's a common tactic to try to put someone on the defensive rather than address their arguments. But you've taken my explanation of that and used it to put me on the defensive so... kudos? I guess....

More than half the population? Are you actually delusional? Most women aren't interested in video games at all, simply because they don't like them. Nothing to do with design or anything. Simply because they aren't interested. Ergo that doesn't make the target market more than half the population. Clearly you know nothing about marketing because you have no clue about target markets work. You can't just say that "Our target market is all females". Similarly more women than ever before are getting into the tech industry BECAUSE they're interested. Not quite sure what sort of barriers you're talking about when Blizzard literally has a diversity program working within their company and barriers for workplace equality, while they still exist are the most transparent they've ever been in Western society.

Guess what everything is chosen by the authors. That's the nature of someone CREATING something. So if the creator says that Witches aren't a counter part to Warlocks and everyone is a Warlock that is the nature of the lore that they created. It's not sexist because there is literally no other phrase for it. Gul'Dan was the first Warlock. That was the title he was given, it is safe to assume that everyone who follows the teachings of that path would also be a Warlock.

you should try not to alienate those users while making that product more accessible to the rest of the population, that way you get -more- customers

This one right here really bothers me. I can guarantee you that a majority of women that play this game don't see being called a Priest, Hunter or Warlock alienating. Most won't even give a flying fuck because it truly does not matter. Destiny also has Warlocks that are both male and female. Don't see anyone complaining there.

[Ghargatuloth]

...

...

Can you two take this off-topic discussion to one of the... I think 50 existing threads that are already designed to complain about gender politics?

[Drekmar]

Nope! Some file types (sound, models, some textures) can be guessed based on DB entries but that's it.

So it's just like ' This x.x.x build has 40 encrypted items.'.

[Deleted]

That wasn't the point, but you're technically correct.

The point was that when I bring up female characters being portrayed as male sexual fantasies and discuss their "Armor" I usually get someone who tries to make it into me thinking women aren't allowed to be sexy because it's a common tactic to try to put someone on the defensive rather than address their arguments. But you've taken my explanation of that and used it to put me on the defensive so... kudos? I guess....

So what WAS the point actually? Did you just say Sylvanas has a sexy outfit, just to say it? You probably had a point. In universe it was explained (in her short story) the in life Sylvanas was very vain and proud of her looks. She probably still likes that she has one of the best cleavages in the game. Of course the true reason is probably closer to what Yoko Taro gave when asked about why YoRHa android run around in high heels. "I like girls"

Yes, keen obervation. Sylvanas is there as fan service for guys. Malfurion, Nozdormu and other shirtless guys are fan service for women.

And your point is?

[Steampunkette]

Why do I feel like this gender politics discussion has little to do with speculation about 8.0? We seem to be veering further off course than usual.

Hey, in my defense, some guy was like "Keep that kind of politics out of my game!" and that's, like, -begging- me to express why the politics are already there and just presumed to be nonpolitical.

Plus we need something other than the previous debunked leaks and arguments to push for 1250 pages...

Ooo! Zandalari stuff in the recent patch?! YUMMY! Between that and Kul'Tiras we're probably looking at the faction hub zoooooooones!

[Marlamin]

So it's just like ' This x.x.x build has 40 encrypted items.'.

"Build x has y encrypted items under encryption key z." to be exact. Silithus stuff also added in 7.3.2 is separately encrypted from Horse/Raptor/Tottle and as such can be unlocked at a separate time (after first guild finishes Antorus).

[EbaumsTipster]

I would like to bring up (thanks IRC!) that there was recently a fat, round Turtle race introduced in Hearthstone: our mystery "Tottle" pet shares the fat, round and shelled Goren skeleton.

[Shadochi]

So it's just like ' This x.x.x build has 40 encrypted items.'.

https://bnet.marlam.in/files.php#sea...rypted&page=40

you can see some of the encrypted file names here

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to bring up (thanks IRC!) that there was recently a fat, round Turtle race introduced in Hearthstone: our mystery "Tottle" pet shares the fat, round and shelled Goren skeleton.

Wait, is this new info?

[Ghargatuloth]

Hey, in my defense, some guy was like "Keep that kind of politics out of my game!" and that's, like, -begging- me to express why the politics are already there and just presumed to be nonpolitical.

Plus we need something other than the previous debunked leaks and arguments to push for 1250 pages...

Ooo! Zandalari stuff in the recent patch?! YUMMY! Between that and Kul'Tiras we're probably looking at the faction hub zoooooooones!

No, it doesn't mean you should continue this off topic toxic discussion in an 8.0 discussion thread...

We especially don't need it to try to bloat the thread over an arbitrary number for no good reason other than to post reaction images.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If the Zandalar stuff is from Throne of Thunder then it may just be unused NPC gear. As that stuff generally exists in game files, too.

It being icons is interesting, though....

And the timing.

Though I take it the Horse and Raptor models are encrypted? Obviously if we could see them it'd tell us a lot about what they are. CE items would be fancier than a standard Horse/Raptor to say the least.

Does make me wonder if the Zandalari join the Horde, though. That'd be utter insanity after everything Vol'jin did, though. Could indicate the Darkspear have an increased role, though...

[Marlamin]

https://bnet.marlam.in/files.php#sea...rypted&page=40

you can see some of the encrypted file names here

- - - Updated - - -



Wait, is this new info?

We've been discussing Tottle on IRC for a bit and that came up. The Tortollan name kinda makes sense.

If the Zandalar stuff is from Throne of Thunder then it may just be unused NPC gear. As that stuff generally exists in game files, too.

It being icons is interesting, though....

And the timing.

Though I take it the Horse and Raptor models are encrypted? Obviously if we could see them it'd tell us a lot about what they are. CE items would be fancier than a standard Horse/Raptor to say the least.

Does make me wonder if the Zandalari join the Horde, though. That'd be utter insanity after everything Vol'jin did, though. Could indicate the Darkspear have an increased role, though...

I posted this before, but the theory is that Blizzard filtered out "Zandalar" and "KulTiras" because this is how we initially found the filenames for the Kul Tiras gear. It might have gone unnoticed otherwise.

[Chickat]

Honestly at this point I almost want rda back. At least he complained about actual in-game things.

Was he banned?

[Smokinya]

Can you two take this off-topic discussion to one of the... I think 50 existing threads that are already designed to complain about gender politics?

I'll gladly stop talking about it once she stops talking about it. I didn't start the conversation. I tried to get it back on track by saying that this is an 8.0 speculation thread and she put in one condescending line and continued to derail. The whole point of me commenting in the first place was to finish the discussion so the derailing would hopefully stop.

[Shadochi]

We've been discussing Tottle on IRC for a bit and that came up. The Tortollan name kinda makes sense.

Well, would make sense with a tropical expansion. Last time we had tropical zones (Mop) we got a giant turtle island and turtle racial mounts.

[EbaumsTipster]

If the Zandalar stuff is from Throne of Thunder then it may just be unused NPC gear. As that stuff generally exists in game files, too.

It being icons is interesting, though....

And the timing.

Though I take it the Horse and Raptor models are encrypted? Obviously if we could see them it'd tell us a lot about what they are. CE items would be fancier than a standard Horse/Raptor to say the least.

Does make me wonder if the Zandalari join the Horde, though. That'd be utter insanity after everything Vol'jin did, though. Could indicate the Darkspear have an increased role, though...

The important part is that the Zandalar and Kul'tiras names were scrubbed from the database at the same time.

[Shadochi]

Was he banned?

No, we asked him to leave this thread....

[Smokinya]

Was he banned?

No I literally told him that I wanted him to leave this thread because he was constantly arguing and derailing so he replied to me and said he wouldn't be back until Blizzcon.

[Deleted]

guys what do u think about this http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...ayable-please/