Blizzard needs to no longer balance Mythic for Method.

[D3athsting]

It also seems wrong that they re-balance the content once it is already out. If they make it too hard then really they should learn to spend more time before content goes live instead of letting players playtest current content so they don't have to pay people to do their job.

We all know ptr is only there to help method learn bosses before they go live

[shaunika123]

Is that a joke? 300 times?... Why the fuck would anyone want to do that? That's insane. I'd rather drive a nail through my hand.

sry that's mythic raiding, not everything has to be handed to you for nothing in this game you know

[Kakera]

These are opinions.

[meroko]

you know this thread is not that bad and pretty spot on. It brings up another question for me, why even bother with fixed 20 at all? The balancing is all over the place, and the real draw to a fixed raid was getting unique encounters but instead all we got was boss does X more damage with a boring new ability added. That's pretty much what heroic is. I don't even think Mythic is needed anymore...just tune up Heroic if you're gonna slap an ability on and increase damage. Mythic should be unique because they literally have a fixed size so it should be the most innovative in terms of fight encounters.

At this point I feel Mythic is no longer a success and they should just bring back 10/25 man raiding...that will boost raid participation for sure.

[Deleted]

Time to add "heroic mythic" difficulty and this time we can hope that the people who don't want to play at the top stays out, but I'm betting they will start threads here instead complaining about how heroic mythic is way too hard.

[Donald Hellscream]

I mean they didn't.. Tomb wasn't balanced for Method exclusively it was balanced much more difficult because apparently the internal test team killed the bosses and then because Blizzard does not give their internal testers enough credit they cranked it to 11 in the belief that if their testers could beat it the content would be too easy for the top 10 guilds in the world.

[Marrilaife]

Time to add "heroic mythic" difficulty and this time we can hope that the people who don't want to play at the top stays out,

Nah, time to add "mythic mythic" difficulty that is only doable by 20 perfectly programmed robots doing maximum mathematically possible dps output while conducting intricate coordinated 20 man dance, so the spectator community can drool over amazing "unkillable" bosses in the tier, because apparently as soon as Method kills the last boss they loudly shout the tier "is over". They will also enjoy the warm feeling they're equal to Method now because neither killed that uber boss, so that makes them now sit in the same bucket.

[Yizu]

As i said over and over, removing the possibility for split runs is a one thing they can do so they can tune mythic abit lower and can still be insanely hard for top 3 raiding guilds on the first few weeks.

[Osmeric]

When you take into account that half of your gear cannot even be upgraded in a meaningful way and that on average bosses drop 4 items each week==> there is really little power gain per week. I would say that if it wasn't for Blizzard nerfing Kil'jaeden 3 times already, less than 10 guilds would of killed him. Why? Because you'd lose players to fatigue faster than you would RNG titanforge upgrades enough to outgear the boss to allow you to kill him.

This is by far the best argument against Titanforging. If Blizzard tunes bosses around TF, then they have effectively massively nerfed the drop rate of gear from the bosses. All those non TF-ed items are just purple trash.

EDIT: this isn't entirely fair, since those items aren't trash for carries. The motivation could be to help returning raiders rapidly get some gear.

[primalmatter]

This is by far the best argument against Titanforging. If Blizzard tunes bosses around TF, then they have effectively massively nerfed the drop rate of gear from the bosses. All those non TF-ed items are just purple trash.

More or less... the system causes balance problems across the board but sadly I doubt we will see it removed. Its replaced what used to be tiered progression through dungeons then raids and the substitute tastes sour to me.

[Osmeric]

So odd how inward looking you are. Are you unaware that you are not representative of all people? Heroic is not difficult for a lot of people. That is exactly why there is a mythic difficulty.

Especially near the end of the tier, as nerfs/gear have their effect. My casual raiding guild one-shotted H KJ this week. There's a large span of difficulty that could reasonably be put above that.

What may make sense is something tuned a bit below current Mythic, but above current Heroic, so that it isn't so tightly tuned that a Flex mechanism could be reasonably included. It's not at all clear to me that Mythic as currently designed is a net positive for the game as a whole.

[primalmatter]

Especially near the end of the tier, as nerfs/gear have their effect. My casual raiding guild one-shotted H KJ this week. There's a large span of difficulty that could reasonably be put above that.

What may make sense is something tuned a bit below current Mythic, but above current Heroic, so that it isn't so tightly tuned that a Flex mechanism could be reasonably included. It's not at all clear to me that Mythic as currently designed is a net positive for the game as a whole.

Its for people invested in the game who enjoy pushing the limits of their class. That being said it can never be flex as many mechanics would simply no longer function if you could do things like stack immunities without punishment.

It honestly could stand to be a touch easier... mythic is slowly feeling more and more reliant on gear checks then it has in the past. I believe it is to counter guilds fielding 5 raid teams to gear people up for the first week.

It could be a touch easier so that gear wasn't such a brick wall but anything beyond that would just fold it into heroic and the tier would die rather quick after that.

[Gaidax]

Especially near the end of the tier, as nerfs/gear have their effect. My casual raiding guild one-shotted H KJ this week. There's a large span of difficulty that could reasonably be put above that.

What may make sense is something tuned a bit below current Mythic, but above current Heroic, so that it isn't so tightly tuned that a Flex mechanism could be reasonably included. It's not at all clear to me that Mythic as currently designed is a net positive for the game as a whole.

You are late to the party, this tier is effectively over and you can beat heroic simply by overgearing it as fuck and it's not because "baed evul" titanforging, it's simply because you get thrown mythic grade items from weekly activities like chest or Argus weekly greater invasion fro quite some time now + crucible + all the gear you got so far plus all the nerfs that happened so far to the raid. The bloody thing is soon out for half a year.

If you would go Heroic first week, it would not be THAT walk in the park for your casual raiding guild.

- - - Updated - - -

It honestly could stand to be a touch easier... mythic is slowly feeling more and more reliant on gear checks then it has in the past. I believe it is to counter guilds fielding 5 raid teams to gear people up for the first week.

Mythic is fine, this time around I'd say the only problem is that Avatar and KJ were a tad overtuned, but it's not some sweeping system issue - just that 2 final bosses overtuned, that's all.

[Osmeric]

You are late to the party, this tier is effectively over and you can beat heroic simply by overgearing it as fuck

Not denying that, just illustrating the large gap that exists between H and M.

[Argorwal]

Its for people invested in the game who enjoy pushing the limits of their class. That being said it can never be flex as many mechanics would simply no longer function if you could do things like stack immunities without punishment.

It honestly could stand to be a touch easier... mythic is slowly feeling more and more reliant on gear checks then it has in the past. I believe it is to counter guilds fielding 5 raid teams to gear people up for the first week.

It could be a touch easier so that gear wasn't such a brick wall but anything beyond that would just fold it into heroic and the tier would die rather quick after that.

I thought the issue was mechanical complexity and 1 shot mechanics or 1 mistake = wipe?

All things not tied to gear checks, and a reason ToS is as hard as it is.

[Bigbazz]

You've created a nice story here where you've started by praising WOD raid tuning from some fantasy imagination that has no bearing on reality.

I mean maybe you should go take a time machine back to see the frequency of guilds literally dying left and right because of Mythic Gorefiend cockblocking the rest of the instance, and guilds using workarounds by inviting players from higher guilds to provide passage to the upper levels of HFC where they could fight easier bosses to earn gear that they would use to progress Gorefiend. HFC wasn't well tuned or balanced, it was a bit all over the place whether you look at Heroic or Mythic, like the first weeks where it was literally impossible to kill normal/heroic Archimonde with 10man raids at normal ilvls, and no kills with what one would consider reasonable ilvl were ever recorded with small raids during the initial period.

If your post wasn't all in your head it might be a nice story, sorry to be so blunt.

[primalmatter]

I thought the issue was mechanical complexity and 1 shot mechanics or 1 mistake = wipe?

All things not tied to gear checks, and a reason ToS is as hard as it is.

I am speaking more of enrage timers.

[Deleted]

Nowadays, raid balancing feels more slapdash, with difficulty jumps seemingly at random, and causing guilds to hit a wall grind for weeks to clear it, then breeze through bosses that were objectively easier, such as pre-nerf Aluriel being harder than the bosses after her. And while you could skip Aluriel, it made progress through a raid very awkward.

Not only that, there's the issue where instead of what we had in HFC which was in hindsight a damn near-perfectly tuned raid

Why should anyone take you serious when you're starting off with twisting the facts to fit your narrative? The jump in difficulty from 5/13 to gorefiend in HFC was way way bigger than from 3/10 to spellblade in Nighthold. But oh wait you didn't even need to do spellblade as the fourth boss. Meanwhile only AFTER gorefiend you got 2 free loot bosses and one that was considerably easier.

Damn that perfect difficulty curve...

[Myta]

Why should anyone take you serious when you're starting off with twisting the facts to fit your narrative? The jump in difficulty from 5/13 to gorefiend in HFC was way way bigger than from 3/10 to spellblade in Nighthold. But oh wait you didn't even need to do spellblade as the fourth boss. Meanwhile only AFTER gorefiend you got 2 free loot bosses and one that was considerably easier.

Damn that perfect difficulty curve...

I didn't factor in other guilds as much, for guilds like ours Gorefiend was considerably easier than other's experience.

But I still stand by my point that Legion has had repeated and consistent problems with difficulty jumps.

[KaPe]

Gorefiend got a simple but very effective nerf when they added five seconds to stomach timers. That was in addition to guaranteed upgrades from the ring. If it was Legion, Blizzard wouldn't touch the fight for four months, then simultaneously introduced the ring and nerfed adds hitpoints/damage - only doing the five seconds change after another two months. It was a nasty boss, but at least they changed stuff without waiting for major patch - and when the patch came, it offered additional wave of nerfs through item upgrades. Plus if anyone died in stomach, they'd probably give +100% damage taken debuff to the whole raid. In the end, you were rewarded with access to easy bosses with great drops, not an even worse challenge with same shitty loot.

Here, they went with "it's killable for couple hundreds guilds, the patch might double that, then we'll nerf it a bit in the last month. Done." Or maybe someone forgot that Cutting Edge is not tied to Avatar, but KJ. Killing the former is already comparable to finishing off Gul'dan, but there's even nastier boss hidden behing that.

It's also combined with tiers being fairly short compared to their difficulty and very limited power growth through gear to create a nasty mix that's exhausting for many mythic raiders. All while select few (some of which might not be raiding mythic at all) mock them with their even insightful "git gud or stay in heroic" bullshit.