High Elves and the Nightfallen

[Kiraser]

Dath'remar Sunstrider and his followers developed strong physical differences from the night elves way before they created the Sunwell.

"Gradually the exiled Highborne developed striking differences from the night elves. Cut off from the new Well of Eternity, they diminished in height, and their skin lost its characteristic violet hue. In addition, the elves lost their resistance to injury and illness, and they became mortal. Many of the elves died from exposure or starvation during their long journey. In addition to these hardships, the elves were forced to flee the site of their first settlement, Tirisfal Glades, due to a mysterious evil influence that drove many of their number mad." - Warcraft Encyclopedia

They were desperate to succeed quickly. After being exiled from the Well of Eternity, the Highborne began to feel the effects of aging and disease. Their skin had even lost its violet hue, and they had begun to shrink in stature. The Highborne feared that the effects would only worsen over time. - World of Warcraft: Chronicle, Volume I

The Nightborne elves that were cut from the Nightwell-enchanted food diminished into the state of Nightfallen.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

What do you imply?

[Techno-Druid]

The Highborne that would become the high elves still had arcane to draw from due to the vials of water from the Well of Eternity that Illidan took. They used these vials to form the Sunwell.

So high elves were never seperated from a pool of arcane magic for very long, pre-Third War.

[Combatbutler]

The Highborne that would become the high elves still had arcane to draw from due to the vials of water from the Well of Eternity that Illidan took. They used these vials to form the Sunwell.

So high elves were never seperated from a pool of arcane magic for very long, pre-Third War.

The high elves didn't have an arcane source for a few centuries

[Aucald]

The Sunwell and the Nightwell were very different fonts of power - the Sunwell was ignited from water from the Well of Eternity and functioned similarly. The Nightwell was a confluence of apparently Ley line energies focused and concentrated by the Eye of Aman'thul. Its substance was also physically ingested by the Nightborne for nourishment, causing greatly increased physiological change from the Night Elven template and apparently causing an accelerated withdrawal outstripping that of the High/Blood Elves into Withered (the transformation of Nightborne into Nightfallen then further into Withered is a much more brutal and apparently a much swifter transformation).

[DeicideUH]

The Nightborne had developed a specific need for the powerful energies of the Nightwell after thousands of years feeding on it. When cut away from it, they withered and die.

The Highborne had an addiction to arcane power. That's more like a drug addiction than a physical necessity. For example, the Highborne of Shandaral (in Northrend) had no source of power and yet survived for thousands of years, until they tried to steal Blue Dragon secrets and ended up killimg themselves while fighting the dragons.

Also, I'll theorize that the original magical addictions was not as strong as the one that the High/blood elves would later develop due to constant contact with the Sunwell. And yet, despite the presence of the Sunwell for thousands of years, high/blood elves' addiction only caused them pain; Unlike nightborne, they wouldn't wither and die from it, and they could survive and overcome the addiction by meditation, willpower or treatment (like feeding less and less on mana until they no longer need it). To be warped into wretched, they need to overindulge in magic, instead of being deprived from it.

So, while all highborne-descended elves are addicted to magic, their affliction is not always the same. Only the nightborne (before the Arcan'dor fruit cures them) were totally dependent on magic to keep living.

[Mace]

The high elves didn't have an arcane source for a few centuries

exactly

Dath'remar Sunstrider and his followers developed strong physical differences from the night elves way before they created the Sunwell.

"Gradually the exiled Highborne developed striking differences from the night elves. Cut off from the new Well of Eternity, they diminished in height, and their skin lost its characteristic violet hue. In addition, the elves lost their resistance to injury and illness, and they became mortal. Many of the elves died from exposure or starvation during their long journey. In addition to these hardships, the elves were forced to flee the site of their first settlement, Tirisfal Glades, due to a mysterious evil influence that drove many of their number mad." - Warcraft Encyclopedia

They were desperate to succeed quickly. After being exiled from the Well of Eternity, the Highborne began to feel the effects of aging and disease. Their skin had even lost its violet hue, and they had begun to shrink in stature. The Highborne feared that the effects would only worsen over time. - World of Warcraft: Chronicle, Volume I

The Nightborne elves that were cut from the Nightwell-enchanted food diminished into the state of Nightfallen.

Thoughts?

different fonts of power. WE all know the high/blood elves are slightly devolved night elves - some deny this, others embrace it as evidence of the pedigree of the Thalassian, (because with less they achieved more), on a side note, I suspect the nightborne will look down on the Thalassian elves as lesser elves genetically, diminished elves. We know they still worship the shit out of Kaldorei - because that's who they are at their core. remember they are not descendants, but kaldorei themselves that the nightwell has changed, and it is as kaldorei that they achieved the many wonders like Suramar and all the things in the empire before the Legion came and destroyed it. They are even proud that they successfully preserved their culture (kaldorei culture) for so long too.

As such, I feel if they were to follow this through naturally, nightborne would look down on Thalassian elves. And their view of their Kaldorei heart and core would interpret the night elves actions as heroic and awe inspiring rather than cowardly and superstitous (which is what the highborne high elves and thus blood elves view it as). It would make a refreshing change as well to see a group actually appreicate and admire Tyrande's group for what they did rather than insult them and deride them.

As such, being night elves themselves and knowing what the arcane meant to their people, they would know that giving it up was a painful sacrifice, and they would find it incredibly brave, especially knowing that doing so kept the legion off Azeroth for nearly 10k years, some may even blame the high elves for teaching the humans which in turn led to the return of said demons and accuse them of being weak - as demonstrated by failing to rebuild the splendour of the kaldorei empire even though they had arcane magic - and view it as further evidence of their unworthiness. Meanwhile they won't levy the same accusation against the night elves, because they didn't use it for noble reasons. They would instead view with shame that none of their own people could convince their kin that elves could responsibly wield the arcane, and they would blame the Zin'Azashari highborne for failing to lead their people right feeling that if they were around, they would have been far more trustworthy magic handlers free fothe baggage that the highborne had, seeing as they were not party to summoning the demons and that the rebellion against Azshara was born in Suramar (starting with Farondis, and ending with Elisande). They would also blame the high elves for this.

Funny, I don't think they'd look down at the night elves for living simply, but rather admire that they could fight so well and conquer the legion without the use of arcane magic, they'd just hail it as further evidence of how superior the night elven stock is and take all the nature magic exploits as further evidenec that whatever path a night/nightborne elf chooses, he or she fluorishes and excels beyond any lesser race.


I have also noticed that Liadrin exempt, the blood elves actually seem either indifferent or contemptuous of the nightborne too, and i think this carries over from their contempt against all things NIGHT - even though the broken isle night elves are blameless in the exile sorrow. Yet Rommath is very contemptuous of them and he isn't the only one. The blood elf mage that breaks the shield is very arrogant and contemptuous of the nightborne magic, and the leader of the Reliquary that sends you in to steal secrets and power has no love for them either. I conclude Liadrin is the exception rather than the rule.

However regarding withering, this is no natural state for any night elf without wielding arcane magic, it is a direct result of the imbalance caused by over excessive use of the arcane affecting the natural body. WE learn that the night elves of Suramar eventually came to rely on the energies to feed them directly when they were in danger of running out of food and being sttarved out. That is how the arcwine process was developed and saved them again, but it is an un-natural and imbalanced use. THeir saving grace was that it was unavoidable, but it had dark consequences, which is why they descend into crazed withered. It is not because this is how night elves are without the arcane - it's just that the particular night elven group we now know as the nightborne had this extreme condition Thalyssra refers to as the curse of the nightwell.

IT is also worth noticing a veneer of mysticism and superstition in the nightborne as well, and the juxtaposition (thanks @Yig, @ravenmoon) of highly advanced civilization on an almost primitive palette - (they walk barefooted and chested like something out of the Roman empire, yet are more advanced than the most advanced modern cities in Azeroth today) it's a typical night elf contrast juxtaposing to opposites , simultaenously existing and being true at the same time.

[Combatbutler]

snip

Blizz does not seem to agree with you here, the nightborne haven't embraced the Kaldorei society in any capacity and we haven't seen anything of them looking down on the high/blood elves quite the contrary. What we currently have is a bad relation between Thalyssra and Tyrande and the nightborne not sending an envoy alongside with the Kaldorei, only Silgryn showed up alongside the blood elves.

The night elves themselves look down on the nightborne and are not really interested in building any relations with them and the blood elves are rather open. So we will see how this plays out, though it is quite possible that the nightborne disappear similar to the pandaren after mists of pandaria.

OT

Nightborne were utterly dependent on arcane energy, since they actually consumed strong arcane essence, the high elves and other highborne were around power sources, but they never actively consumed it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

where has Rommath showed any animosity towards the nightborne? I only recall him wistfully wondering what would have happened if his own people had the Nightwell.

[DeicideUH]

where has Rommath showed any animosity towards the nightborne? I only recall him wistfully wondering what would have happened if his own people had the Nightwell.

There was none that I can remember.

[Mace]

Blizz does not seem to agree with you here, the nightborne haven't embraced the Kaldorei society in any capacity and we haven't seen anything of them looking down on the high/blood elves quite the contrary. What we currently have is a bad relation between Thalyssra and Tyrande and the nightborne not sending an envoy alongside with the Kaldorei, only Silgryn showed up alongside the blood elves.

The night elves themselves look down on the nightborne and are not really interested in building any relations with them and the blood elves are rather open. So we will see how this plays out, though it is quite possible that the nightborne disappear similar to the pandaren after mists of pandaria.

What makes you say that? The reason I came up with this conclusion is based on the quests in 7.0 and how Suramar is presented, the way people like Valtrois and Thaedris refer to the night elves and their stock. IT fits, these people don't hate night elves, they ARE the night elves, they all were born and it was at this stage all their wonders and civilization they prize so much were wrought.

Look at Suramar, all the night elf symbols, Elune shrines, Moon and star focus, it's all still there. They haven't changed Kaldorei civilization at all, what makes you think what I'm saying about them is somehow wrong or off? Look at what we are shown. Nightborne on the horde will not be a denial of their night elven nature, heritage or disposition, it will just bring a version of night elves to the horde, not change the nightborne from night elves or make them something else.

And where is the evidence that the night elves hate the nightborne? Seriously? Look at ALL of them helping the nightborne, look at the things the Moonguard, Farodin, the refugees say. Even Tyrande who is cold towards THalyssraat first, helps and risks her life and the life of her sentinels to save and rescue them when she doesn't have to. Look at Farodin telling us how the nightborne are worth saving, and explains the nature of his people's relation to magic. Look at Farondis who refers to them as brothers and kin on several occasions during world quests, regrets that he asks you to take action against the Legion aligned ones.

This is not hate or disregard. And have you forgotten, the alliance night elves accepted the Shen'dralar (and the Zin'Azshari highborne too) and both groups behaved worse than their own Suramar kin, why do you think they reject them or hate them? Because they feel balance is necessary? Because they feel the arcane should be used responsibly?

Are you not projecting blood elven/high elven ideals on the nightborne just because they're arcane wielders? Do not lose sight that the nightborne and shen'dralar highborne are still night elven, the High/Blood elves are not and they are the ones that hate the night.

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where has Rommath showed any animosity towards the nightborne? I only recall him wistfully wondering what would have happened if his own people had the Nightwell.

He came across as snubby and arrogant to me, - the way they wrote his lines makes you feel like he's looking down on them and not really considering them as he goes on about how much more his people could have done if they had sources like what the night elves had both with the WoE and Nightwell, but the problem with text is that it doesn't show intonation and context as well as speaking does, we'd have gotten a better idea on what he felt if they had voiced the lines.

I think either way it was a very Rommath thing to say, and true to his character, blood elves like him are typical of the group - cold, arrogant and think that they and their people are the best (night/nightborne elves feel the same way about themselves btw). There is no love towards nightborne or compassion or anything like that - it comes across like he is looking down at them for not doing more. Blood elves don't worship the light out of the nightborne's arses. They don't think that much of them. Covet their power and their knowledge but judging by the 3 characters [Rommath, Tael'thar, and the Spellbreaker]