Is the Collapse of the U.S. Now Inevitable?

[Taso]

• 20 trillion in debt translates to over 100k debt for every single person in the work force 155 - 160 million people.
• College debt is already skyrocketing and the price of college is still going up.
• Worker pay has stagnated over the last 20 year.
• Income inequality higher than when we separated from England.
• Job outsourcing and AI taking over is putting people out of work all over at a time when a college degree is essential for a basic job.
• Rent costs are insane and increasing.
• Climate change.
• One single accident can bankrupt a person with healthcare costs.

I am not nation bashing, I am just seeing the reality of the big picture. There is not fix for the U.S. Its citizens are going to be hurting for a very long time.

Nope it’s a perception that some people dream of happening but will not come to fruition. The us has survived everything even a Great Depression prior to the 20th version. No matter how bad things happen the u.s was and will be better off then the rest of the world. I don’t say this as a hot headed nationalist putting my country above everyone else but our history shows that and I acknowledge that part. Debt will always occur. Where there is a government their are programs. those programs at some point require the government to borrow at some point. Unless you don’t mind having tons of programs slashed debt won’t go down.

[nanook12]

Curious...who do you believe holds the majority of the U.S.A. Debt?

China and Japan.

[Taso]

by collapse, do you mean states going as independent nations or a civil insurrection against oligarchy?


fascinating enough, if california decide to be independant, it would be the 8th economy of the world, get into G8 (which i guess would be renamed G9) and could really thrive without having to shoulder the failling economy of more rural states of the US.

California, it's hollywood, it's silicon valley, it's a massive economy.

Then their is Texas if they leave they will thrive. Oil, manufacturing, hospitals, great colleges theirs a lot in Texas that people ignore out of lack of interest or because their biased thinking all Texas is uneducated or something.

[Anevers]

China and Japan.

If I am not mistaken the vast majority of our debt as of last year was to ourselves. Not saying China and Japan don't own some of it...but... it's not the dire picture you think it is.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news...hip/index.html

[Elegiac]

Then their is Texas if they leave they will thrive. Oil, manufacturing, hospitals, great colleges theirs a lot in Texas that people ignore out of lack of interest or because their biased thinking all Texas is uneducated or something.

Texas can afford to be 'low tax, low service' because there are actually taxpaying states to buffer it with. Oil isn't a solid thing to build your economy on.

[kasuke06]

oh no, the us is doomed again. must be saturday.

[Mittens]

Because the debt is 20 trillion now and still increasing. If you tax the rich and corporations more to help pay off the national debt, then they either move away or cut millions of jobs. If you cut taxes on the rich and raise taxes on everyone else, then income inequality grows even more and regular people suffer. There is literally no way out.

There is literally no sign that the US cannot pay the interests on its debt and our debt is issued in our own currency, so worse case scenario, we pay the interests by printing money and maybe risk runaway inflation.

[HumbleDuck]

It has always been inevitable, however none of what you said are reasons for an imminent fall of U.S.
Climate change comes close, but that's not a US specific problem.

[Taso]

Texas can afford to be 'low tax, low service' because there are actually taxpaying states to buffer it with. Oil isn't a solid thing to build your economy on.

I didn’t just say oil they do have a lot that can help them out while crippling the u.s if they leave.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascale.../#6a4c5e6c8d7d
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas

[Nuvuk]

Thanks to humanity, it is inevitable that every civilization here on earth will eventually collapse from power.

[Vankrys]

There is literally no sign that the US cannot pay the interests on its debt and our debt is issued in our own currency, so worse case scenario, we pay the interests by printing money and maybe risk runaway inflation.

printing money devalues the dollar, because you have more money that actual riches. If your money is devalued, that hurt your trading with foreign nation. You buy less with the same amount of money (because it's worth less) and what you sell abroad is cheaper (bring you less money).
On the flip side, that makes your product more competitive.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not without specifics losers are on YouTube spouting bullshit have no idea.

[Ealyssa]

A civil war will happen well before any collapse happens.

A civil war de facto means a collapse...

[zealo]

The US owes a majority of it's debt to it's own citizens in the form of treasury bonds.

The issue of state debt is a fair bit more complex than some simple napkin math might tell you, any collapse of the US isn't that imminent even if nothing is certain on a greater time table.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It would be a great day for the EU on the Internet. Until they realized now all the nations they raped for 300 years are now fully mordern, angry, and don't have to worry about the US stopping them from returning the favor.

But dont worry. We all know everyone has a white sheet ready to run up the flag pole.

[PC2]

We'll just default on the debt, f'ck em. What are they going to do about it?

And the next day we'll borrow a trillion dollars from someone.

The government is not going to default, it wont happen. The debt ratio getting worse just means the government has to make marginal austerity adjustments to balance the books.

[Souflikar]

By collapse I mean the U.S. eventually defaulting on its loans, which would cause wise spread economic effects, causing highly increased division and anger towards opposing political groups and people, climate change still reeking havoc, all of it culminating into the U.S. becoming a third world nation.

- - - Updated - - -

Political groups have always been opposed. Granted, it seems worse now but I don't see it causing a collapse. Also, where is climate change reeking havoc in the U.S.? Don't say hurricanes because until this year, it's been 12 years since a hurricane has made landfall in the U.S. A couple per year is not cause for alarm. And as for the economy, that is on an upswing. Job numbers are steady and have been climbing. The one thing I will agree with is that college tuition IS ridiculous! How is that fixed? Simple, colleges need to stop raising tuition beyond reasonable heights. That's simple greed.

[Independent voter]

China and Japan.

Dam man, he was trying to make you look like you didn't know what you were talking about and you fell for it.

US citizens hold most of the US debt.

And if worst comes to worst, we'll default.

Carnegie said something like

"If a man borrows a thousand dollars from a bank, that's the man's problem.

If a man borrows a billion dollars from a bank, that's the bank's problem."

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Because the debt is 20 trillion now and still increasing.

It's okay when it was just 19 trillion though. And 18 trillion. And 17 trillion. And 10 trillion. And etc. BUT HOLD YOUR FUCKING HORSES PEOPLE, 20 trillion is a magic number! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

[Skroe]

[LIST][*]20 trillion in debt translates to over 100k debt for every single person in the work force 155 - 160 million people.

It's stable as a percentage of GDP and furthermore, the way you typically measure debt is versus assets, not income. American assets dwarf its debt.

The debt's growth should be restrained. But it is not in a dangerous place.

[*]College debt is already skyrocketing and the price of college is still going up.

Fixing this is a political decision. Not a matter of "collapsing the US"

[*]Worker pay has stagnated over the last 20 year.

It's risen in the last year. And this is not remotely enough to "collapse the US".

[*]Income inequality higher than when we separated from England.

Again a political decision. The decision to "tax more or to not tax more" is not an existential crisis.

[*]Job outsourcing and AI taking over is putting people out of work all over at a time when a college degree is essential for a basic job.

Yeah the people who say this have no idea what they're talking about. The US faces a worker shortage in coming decades, not a worker glut.

[*]Rent costs are insane and increasing.

States and munipalitices adopting or not adopting rent controls is not an existential crisis to the United States.

[*]Climate change.

Global problem.

[*]One single accident can bankrupt a person with healthcare costs.

Individual problem that cannot collapse the United States.

[*] Completely corrupt political sphere.

And still far less corrupt than most other countries, including Western countries. The US needs dire political reform. But corruption in the way you mean it is relatively limited.

[*]High imprisonment rates.

Criminal justice reform is a political decision and not an existential crisis to the United States.

[*]The failing economy is dividing people creating even more polarized politics and hinting at civil war.

The economy has been in it's longest uninterrupted period of growth in our history. The economy is by-in-large in a great spot.

Calling today's polarized politics "hiting at civil war' speaks to a grossly poor reading of history and deep personal insecurities. Americans have spent far more time hating each others guts than some kind of united happy land thing. Today's political polarization pales in comparison to the Vietnam era, or the turn of the 20th century.

In other words, chill the fuck out.

I am not nation bashing, I am just seeing the reality of the big picture. There is no fix for the U.S. Its citizens are going to be hurting for a very long time.

Someone didn't like my Russia thread.