If they announce legacy servers at Blizzcon, would you play them?

[Kyanion]

As you can see from this thread just the idea of how to even make this happen opens a huge can of worms. Just imagine if Legacy was announced and then the types of questions that would be asked:

What patch would this be on?
Why that patch?
Will there be class fixes? Balance Changes?
Will hybrids be forced into healers only still?
Why can't we play TBC or WotLK? Why does it have to be Vanilla?
Why are we on the Naxx patch when the game was better when Vanilla first released?
Will there be bug fixes?
How much will it cost? Why that much?
Can we do X thing? Why not X if we do Y or Z?


You get my point. And what is to stop people from staying on free PS if they don't like the version of Vanilla that Blizz puts out? Hell, for that matter are people going to bitch about the types of servers opened? PvE/PvP/RPPvP, what about multiple language support? I mean just the idea of multiple realms, language support and what not already sounds daunting from the amount of GMs they'd have to hire. What happens if the game starts to bleed subs quickly because people 'try it out' and don't make it out of the first month?

Another popular theme seems to be that there would be a backlash from players and media that if Legacy happens it would be Blizz admitting that current WoW is not good enough and thus they have to bring back old versions of the game to drum up players/money. This just seems like a nightmare.

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I'm playing vanilla, and I would switch to official vanilla, as long as it is blizzlike, and not filled with microtransactions and P2W, as retail is.

ahhhh...hahahaha my god. Retail is SOOOO P2W, I'm buying 950 ilevel items from the Cash Shop RIGHT NOW!

[Eurhetemec]

Even assuming those 5 mil played during Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK you still have other 7ish mil that quit since wotlk.

That's not how WoW's population works.

When it was 11-12 million, that was including the vast number of Chinese-style customers (at a minimum 5m) who were defined as subscribers if they even paid for a few hours, once a month. That's all it took. This isn't debatable, this isn't arguable, this isn't a "matter of opinion", this is Blizzard's own definition of subscriber. I think it's very unlike Western subs broke 7m, frankly, but we have no evidence. I believe the highest combined total of Western-style subs was something like 5m or 5.5m before they stopped publishing separated numbers.

Further, from your phrasing you seem to think the total number of people involved is 5m+7m for 12m. No. Jesus. No. The number of people who have played WoW is in the high tens of millions. Most of them play a bit, and then quit, maybe come back, then quit and so on. It may be over 100m, even.

This matters to this thread because any "Legacy servers" announcement would have people coming back in droves. Huge numbers of them. But these are people who already quit WoW, and not "because it was 2 ez" or "2 p2w" or whatever, but because they got bored of it or didn't have time for it in their life or whatever. Neither of which has likely changed, even if they fool themselves into thinking it has.

So some of these people will come back for Legacy servers, and they would temporarily provide a big revenue spike for Blizzard, but followed by a massive crash, because people will just quit again, probably pretty soon. They'll play Legacy, get their "fix" of nostalgia, then quit. That's what happens with this kind of server.

[tankbug]

I would play a little for curiosity, then probably be incredibly frustrated about how clunky it is to play and how ugly it looks compared to our current game. I'd probably investigate the re-made areas just to take a trip down memory lane, but I wouldn't grind existing dungeons just to get to 60. Maybe I would try to get some good twink gear and do some PVP.

[Zeta333]

There is wanting it and then there is that is all they can ever talk about.. It has gotten to the point that I would just love to see Blizzard go and say that they will never do legacy servers.. Or that they do and then most likely see thee flood of whinge as people miss this and that of what is currently on live..

Just look at the furor over flying, also not to forget the added race/class combos that would be not be there either..

I mean even the OP's poll is biased as it has no in between options for people to choose from..

sorry but what is currently here is not that fantastic, Population went into such a nosedive that they refuse to publish sub numbers anymore. There is a reason there is half the number if not more playing than there was in 2010.

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MMO gaming was pretty far from mainstream once upon a time.

genre of game vs technology are 2 different things. VR is no more than a gimick atm, no serious titles, no serious backers.

[pateuvasiliu]

That's not how WoW's population works.

When it was 11-12 million, that was including the vast number of Chinese-style customers (at a minimum 5m) who were defined as subscribers if they even paid for a few hours, once a month. That's all it took. This isn't debatable, this isn't arguable, this isn't a "matter of opinion", this is Blizzard's own definition of subscriber. I think it's very unlike Western subs broke 7m, frankly, but we have no evidence. I believe the highest combined total of Western-style subs was something like 5m or 5.5m before they stopped publishing separated numbers.

Further, from your phrasing you seem to think the total number of people involved is 5m+7m for 12m. No. Jesus. No. The number of people who have played WoW is in the high tens of millions. Most of them play a bit, and then quit, maybe come back, then quit and so on. It may be over 100m, even.

This matters to this thread because any "Legacy servers" announcement would have people coming back in droves. Huge numbers of them. But these are people who already quit WoW, and not "because it was 2 ez" or "2 p2w" or whatever, but because they got bored of it or didn't have time for it in their life or whatever. Neither of which has likely changed, even if they fool themselves into thinking it has.

So some of these people will come back for Legacy servers, and they would temporarily provide a big revenue spike for Blizzard, but followed by a massive crash, because people will just quit again, probably pretty soon. They'll play Legacy, get their "fix" of nostalgia, then quit. That's what happens with this kind of server.

You do realise that supports my argument, right?

If those high tens of millions played more 10 years ago, if you go back to 10 years ago you have a higher chance of them coming back than today.

As for 5m chinese, do you have any proof of that?

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I would play a little for curiosity, then probably be incredibly frustrated about how clunky it is to play and how ugly it looks compared to our current game. I'd probably investigate the re-made areas just to take a trip down memory lane, but I wouldn't grind existing dungeons just to get to 60. Maybe I would try to get some good twink gear and do some PVP.

Modders on random websites have managed to import Legion/Warlords models to Vanilla and beyond I think Blizz would be able to do it, too.


And you didn't need to grind dungeons to get to 60.

[tankbug]

VR is no more than a gimick atm, no serious titles, no serious backers.

Yes and no. As far as I know, there aren't any huge VR-exclusives coming out, with a deep story and complex gameplay. However, Bethesda are coming out with VR versions of their existing major games, and the industry giants are still investing in their VR hardware. So I wouldn't say VR doesn't have any serious backers.

[Cerus]

We needed another one these threads why?

There’s a flaw in your logic like every other vanilla server supporter. “Tons of people would play it”.....a handful might on occasion but they aren’t going to want to pay for it. They play on them because they’re free.

The costs to maintain them would not be financially viable for the limited number of people who would actually subscribe. They aren’t happening. Blizzard has made that abundantly clear. They aren’t going to dump resources into something that will just cost them money.

It’s about time legacy server threads becomes a forbidden topic. The horse is dust now.

[SirBeef]

No. I have no desire to go back. It was fun then but would be a bore today.

[tankbug]

Modders on random websites have managed to import Legion/Warlords models to Vanilla and beyond I think Blizz would be able to do it, too.


And you didn't need to grind dungeons to get to 60.

But do people want that? They want new models in their "classic" wow experience?

And regarding the dungeon grind, I know you don't have to do that. I just remember that back in the days, there were big holes in your questing experience, so sometimes, unless you knew all the zones pretty well, you would have to kill things outside or do dungeons to be ready for certain zones or get to max level.

[Eurhetemec]

You do realise that supports my argument, right?

If those high tens of millions played more 10 years ago, if you go back to 10 years ago you have a higher chance of them coming back than today.

As for 5m chinese, do you have any proof of that?

It does not support your argument, unless your argument is that Legacy servers are a short-term cash cow which will later become an embarrassment/albatross around their neck.

This I agree with:

"if you go back to 10 years ago you have a higher chance of them coming back than today"

Yes. True. 100% agreed.

However, the question is, if a player quit ten years ago, why did he quit? Chance are it was either:

1) Bored with WoW (for one of a million reasons).

2) Everyone who he/she played with quit.

3) No time for playing WoW properly in his/her life.

Will any of those have changed? I am going to with a big fat "NO".

So they will be the massive demand for Legacy servers. They'll all be full, there will be queues on all of them, and people will be like "HUGE SUCCESS!" "SEE BLIZZ U WERE SO DUMB 2 NOT DO THIS!" and so on. This will last 3-6 months, tops.

In 3-6 months, 90% of players on the Legacy servers will have quit. Most of the older players coming back will have satisfied their nostalgia, as will current players who went to try it out. Things that made them quit before, will make them quit again. So they'll either have quit from WoW, or gone back to normal servers. This will leave a bunch of ghost-town Legacy servers (because them all being full will have spread the population out in a fairly "flat" way).

Now the blamefest will begin. The remaining Legacy players, unable to accept that the servers were not long-term popular, will blame Blizzard. "BLIZZ U FUCKED UP". Anything, no matter how slight, how imperfect, or whatever, will be the focus of noisy rage from these players. If Blizzard put in TBC, people will blame Blizzard for that, and say that's why the servers died. If Blizzard don't put in TBC, they'll say the opposite. Same with Wrath. There will be no pleasing them and no explaining, and because Legacy servers have no CRZs or the like, there will be no fixing the mess, either. They'd just have to start merging servers - and then what will people say "OMG WOW IS FAILING THEY R HAVIN 2 MERGE SERVEZ!!!!!" - so it's lose/lose.

Unless Blizzard have a VERY clever idea to prevent this happening, one no-one in MMOs has ever had before (even though other MMOs have tried Legacy-type servers before), don't expect Legacy servers any time soon.

As for 5m+ in China, here: https://www.engadget.com/2014/01/17/...sored-history/

It was definitely over 4m, but we don't know exactly how high.

BTW there is some fascinating shit in there - in the second part it's revealed that in 2012, Chinese WoW had separate lockouts for 25 man and 10-man (unlike Western WoW), and the bosses in 25-man had 8% more health and hit 8% harder, but dropped more loot.

[MyndZero]

That's not how WoW's population works.

When it was 11-12 million, that was including the vast number of Chinese-style customers (at a minimum 5m) who were defined as subscribers if they even paid for a few hours, once a month. That's all it took. This isn't debatable, this isn't arguable, this isn't a "matter of opinion", this is Blizzard's own definition of subscriber.

How's this relevant though? Because throughout the HISTORY of WoW there has been countless scenarios exactly like this. Some people only login for a couple hours a week to raid, heck I generally only login for 2-4 hours at MOST a week these days because there is NOTHING else to do outside of raiding (M+ & shard farming to play the lottery on titanforging to be an upgrade is not fun, you're literally playing for an upgrade like 1 in 50 times of doing it - not worth the time spent whatsoever) --- this scenario has been in the game for many years and that's included in the sub count as well.


While I'm a big believer in time spent in game > total subscriptions, you really do need both at the end of the day in a *M*MORPG because it helps fill the world and make it seem more alive.

[Flutterguy]

No. I already played that game.

[grexly75]

sorry but what is currently here is not that fantastic, Population went into such a nosedive that they refuse to publish sub numbers anymore. There is a reason there is half the number if not more playing than there was in 2010.

Of course there is a reason in fact there are many reasons for the decline in sub numbers from people getting bored with the game to people not having the time to play the game anymore, to those who don't like the way the game went.. There is no single reason for why subs have dropped and we never will know that only Blizz is likely to know that..

The one thing is how long do you expect those who claim they would come back to play on "legacy servers" stay before they get bored shitless and move on again..

[Eurhetemec]

How's this relevant though? Because throughout the HISTORY of WoW there has been countless scenarios exactly like this. Some people only login for a couple hours a week to raid, heck I generally only login for 2-4 hours at MOST a week these days because there is NOTHING else to do outside of raiding (M+ & shard farming to play the lottery on titanforging to be an upgrade is not fun, you're literally playing for an upgrade like 1 in 50 times of doing it - not worth the time spent whatsoever) --- this scenario has been in the game for many years and that's included in the sub count as well.


While I'm a big believer in time spent in game > total subscriptions, you really do need both at the end of the day in a *M*MORPG because it helps fill the world and make it seem more alive.

That's a fair question!

It's relevant when people make claims about population sizes, because it represents a rather different mode of play, a different amount of profit (far, far smaller - I am working from memory but I believe that last I heard, you had to play about 60 hours/week in China to make Blizzard as much money as our $15/month sub), and means that a lot of the "BIG NUMBERS!" people chuck as if they meant something around are kind of nonsensical.

The one thing is how long do you expect those who claim they would come back to play on "legacy servers" before they get bored shitless and move on again..

Yep exactly. If they long-term quit once, they'll do it again.

[Raelbo]

Part of me wishes that they would just go ahead and release an official legacy server just so that six months down the line I can point to the seven people still playing on it and say "told you so"....

[Deleted]

Personally I love Legion, but let's face it, the game has become a lot more cookie cutter with each and every year...

A lot of people might scream "Rose tinted glasses", but I've played on vanilla private servers, and there is enjoyment to be found in going back to the basics. Back when you didn't just rush through the levelling, back when the levelling content was one of the main focuses of the game, and not just a hurdle you have to go through to get to max level. I miss the old zones, I feel like Cataclysm destroyed (literally) a lot of them. Stranglethorn Vale and The Barrens were incredible because they were fucking huge. Duskwood was genuinely scary because if you ventured too far into the woods, you would find a gigantic dragon. Even walking along the path you would have to be careful, before you know it a huge lumbering abomination was chasing you down... Certain quests required you to actually make groups. Not quickly refresh the group finder and join a random auto invite group, but actual people you interacted with.

I'm not saying it should replace or stand in the way of WoW's progression. But why can't it exist alongside it? Give everyone what they want.

The main flaw of most private servers is that the population is not very high. But if Blizzard made official legacy servers, I'm sure a lot of people would play them. Hell, they might even get players who quit the game to come back.

What do you think? Would you play on official vanilla legacy servers if they announced them at Blizzcon?

I voted yes because I miss the old days, but I doubt they will ever do it.
Legacy servers will split the playerbase even more than it currently is.
Also, what happens if they did introduce Vanilla legacy servers? After a year of playing people will have cleared Naxxramas, then what about TBC legacy servers? WotLK legacy servers etc?

[grexly75]

Yep exactly. If they long-term quit once, they'll do it again.

And this is the one thing I think that a lot of the pro legacy zealots seem to conveniently gloss over, and they don't care what happens so long as they get their official legacy servers..

What gets me though, is why as there are plenty of private servers out there to get their fix on and it is free..

[Melkirth]

Will never touch it. Already played the expansions and got bored in the drought period waiting for the next expansion so not sure what the appeal is to have a legacy server with an infinite drought period.

[Zedwin]

Only if they restrict the use of add-ons and macros 100% and merge it together with my current subscription account, with achievements that prove I did it.
It also has to release just like the original release schedule.
Would also like the same game crashes they had back in the day so I can get the full original WoW experience.
Plus the same lower quality graphics and all those lovely glitches.
Must be PvP realms only.

If they allow add-ons or current macros and tech - waste of time!
- The core vanilla fans claim the game was hard, but a ton of add-ons where made to make the game easy.
- We now have tons of databases which have everything from the game, which ruins the "original experience".
- Plus most core vanilla players already know every path to get to 60 fast, into raiding quickly to those first kills.
- This will destroy the actual experience for new/old players because everyone, at the time, didn't know anything - today we have everything.
- The experience is diluted other wise.

Plus when I tried a private server... I laughed, turned it off, went back to original game.

[Eurhetemec]

Only if they restrict the use of add-ons and macros 100%

So you never played Vanilla WoW right lol?

At all.

The restrictions on macros and add-ons basically didn't exist. In early (but post-release, not beta or anything) Vanilla you could literally have addons which walked your character around. You could set up waypoints and everything.

You could have fall-through macros and all sorts of amazing scripting.

The macros and add-ons we have now are a PALE SHADOW of what we had access to in Vanilla. I used to have so much nutso stuff in terms of add-ons and macros back when we were pushing BWL and ZG and AQ40 and so on. Most of it died when Blizzard locked that shit down later on.

- We now have tons of databases which have everything from the game, which ruins the "original experience".

Wait, you think we didn't have detailed databases of what was in the game in Vanilla? Holy shit, I mean, do you think we played WoW on computers made of rock and went to work in cars pulled by dinosaurs as well lol? Like some sort of full-on Flintstones shit? We had databases bro.