Fury warrior bug that needs Blizzards attention before tier21

[Evade97]

So then who are you Manifestatio? Since you seem to think you are so good I want to see it.

[Anuibus]

So then who are you Manifestatio? Since you seem to think you are so good I want to see it.

As if who he is makes his statements any more or less valid. Attack his argument, not him.

[Archimtiros]

Ok you got me, you can only get 4 when you get the 20 rage from Odyn's Fury golden trait. (no bloodlust no sephuz no war machine). And if you don't get those 20 rage you use bloodthirst and then you get the 4th rampage still within the 8sec window of 75% extra damage.

Aaaaand here's how much you know about your class https://gyazo.com/8268820dd3400501a646a1a49a10b8cd. "Oh but you didn't get the 4th one entirely within BC", no, not quite yet. Imagine with Antorus gear, aka more haste. Or imagine any war machine m+ situation, or imagine Bloodlust on pull, or imagine sephuz + war machine in m+ or simply the first or second rampage proccing Rage of the Valarjar. Maybe you should try playing the game. Hit dummies with different talents. Also, start playing for boss damage, stop the whoring.

Yes, I would say that was only three, because it was only three. The third also fell out of Battle Cry, and Rampage doesn't snapshot so it's still not during Battle Cry, even if it does benefit from the tier bonus, but that hardly matters. You think Antorus is going to give you another 25% haste to fit in a fourth? Good luck with that.

I also said fit four with one GCD in between them, presumably WW to cleave them given that was your original subject and relates to the bug you made this thread about in the first place. I don't see why you constantly feel the need to try to evolve your argument instead of actually talking through a point. It's as if you think you can keep bouncing around subjects until you find one to prove me wrong (you haven't yet), which will somehow validate your entire existence (it won't).

This thread has gotten tiresome. You started off on a good foot, but went downhill and started hurling insults as soon as you heard something you didn't like. Grow up.

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As if who he is makes his statements any more or less valid. Attack his argument, not him.

When he starts attacking the credentials of others and claiming his methods are better without proof or fact behind them, it's entirely relevant. Regardless, his argument is borderline incoherent, as he changes it every post to try find a leg to stand on.

• His first post: "these are very important issues"

The bug is impactful enough to warrant the time it would take to fix it.

• Second post: "this bug feels bad"

It does, but numbers prove it's so rare as to be near non-existent, and the initial example is incorrect.

• Third post: "it's an easy fix, just make the proc two stacks!"

That's not a fix, it's a flat buff, and the bug would still exist.

• Fourth post: "any good warrior will do this - it's a massive problem if you can't cleave Rampages as fast as possible"

You can't cleave Rampage that fast. Rage generation simply does not support it, and the initial example is still incorrect.

• Fifth post: "misinformation, learn how to play, you're wrong, spend 5 minutes on the PTR"

Nice job attacking the argument, never did refute anything, just claimed it was wrong. Regardless proof of Bloodthirst use is provided.

• Sixth post: "you're massively wrong, mediocre, severe lack of actually playing the game, I have secrets which make me better than you, L2P"

Again, these are personal attacks, not attacking the argument. The topic of Bloodthirst was dropped completely after proof was provided, despite "how wrong it was", wonder why...

• Seventh post: "I'll prove I fit four with a gif that barely shows three! You should stop whoring dps"

So although he started out the entire conversation talking about cleaving, now he's calling me a damage whore for talking about cleaving; great logic. This is, once again, evolving the argument, trying to prove his point, which directly contradicts his point!


See how quickly his posts deteriorate? Couldn't even maintain a coherent argument, given that he went from talking about a bug, to asking for buffs, to talking about cleaving Rampages for max dps, to talking about Bloodthirst, dropping Bloodthirst to talk about how much better he is, and then talking about single target and calling cleave damage whoring... despite it being his central theme throughout the conversation up until that point.

There's no discussion to be had with people like this. It's impossible to address the argument when they change it every time you challenge a point, just like he:

• Brought up my Bloodthirst use being wrong and dropped it when showed numbers.
• Attacked my logs without any cause or claim of proof.
• Claimed Frothing Berserker didn't always buff Rampage by 15%, and dropped the subject when corrected.
• Claimed Carnage allowed 100% enrage uptime, and dropped the subject when corrected.
• Claimed Mastery was better because of Draught, and dropped it when corrected.
• Brought up cleave, and dropped it to talk about single target instead.
• Continually calling me bad, misinformed, wrong, unknowledgeable about the class, and a whore. Oh wait, that is consistent, my bad. So much for "attack the argument, not the person".

[Deleted]

It's okay to be wrong Archimtiros. Take some advice and hit some dummies. In Antorus you'll end up doing what I've told you today and hopefully then you'll be more humble. Stop simming, start hitting dummies. Do some mythic plus. You think rage generation doesn't support cleaving Rampage that fast, and I can only imagine you'd think that having actually played the game so little. Whoop-de-fucking-doo any time there's multiple targets you can mouseover charge to get easy 40 rage and not waste the running Rampage (mostly, depends on the mobs). Maybe you're not using that. The goal of having this Meat Cleaver interaction fixed is so I can cleave at least 3 rampages in any War Machine Battle Cry situation cause there's no way currently to do it only due to this stupid interaction eating up a Meat Cleaver.

Start using charge. All your bullshit "rage-generation in cleave situations doesn't support spamming cleaving Rampages". Get the fuck out.

[Deleted]

I think this comes down to importance and to effort required to fix this bug. I don't know how exactly this is coded, but probably something like this (some improvised code, don't take the syntax seriously):

if(buff.meatcleaver.active=true) then rampage(aoe=true)

Then it applies to all 5 hits separately.
A possible solution to this would be to change the structure of damage applied, by building in the aoe flag into each instance of rampage cast, so when a buff is consumed this flag persists for all remaining hits and is not overwritten/consumed twice. A change of this scale, however, would possibly require a rewamp of how spells implemented in the game, and either can be done for the next expansion or not adressed at all, depending on their priorities.

From what I understand from this thread (I'm more or less rephrasing the OP and Archimtiros's first post in this thread), this bug affects a certain range of haste values that are not very common, and are only achievable by well geared characters. So, in other words, it softens scaling a bit with high gear, which can actually be beneficial from balancing standpoint. This means, lower ilvl damage can be buffed without major repercussions on the high end.

TL;DR I would expect (and am curious to see if it happens) this bug to be fixed for the next expansion, with next code updates. Seeing how it existed at least since Legion alpha, it's all but guaranteed, but I remain cautiously optimistic.

[Deleted]

From what I understand from this thread (I'm more or less rephrasing the OP and Archimtiros's first post in this thread), this bug affects a certain range of haste values that are not very common, and are only achievable by well geared characters.

I agree with what you said except this. I'm quite sure a lot of people just don't know that they're affected by the bug. It is not uncommon. The bug is active as soon as your character has more than ~26.#% haste (edit: at least for me, but I have less than 20 ms latency so it might be more haste required for others with more latency, I don't know) and you have War Machine or Bloodlust active. War Machine is active all the friggen time in mythicplus, it's active so much of the time on cleave raid fights. It's not rare. It's every single trash pack that you pull within 10 seconds of another one in mythic+. All the god damn time.

Currently I agree a lot of people probably don't know they're affected because they very rarely get into the situation where doing back-to-back cleaving rampage is by far the best option to do damage. That's what is going to change in t21 with Bloodbath becoming far massively superior to Inner Rage. EVERYTHING in t21 is about as many Rampages in Battle Cry as possible, in both ST and cleave situations, where in Cleave situations you want those Rampages to cleave as much as possible. Any other spell is negligible compared to a Rampage.

[Archimtiros]

Get the fuck out.

Uh huh. Keep it up with the high ground there buddy.

So, for the record, are we back to talking about cleaving again? You keep bouncing between that and single target, calling it padding, and now you're giving "advise" on how to cleave again.

[Deleted]

If you didn't get it yet, this whole post is about getting this bug fixed because it is a gigantic detriment to the cleave playstyle (it's far superior to sit and wait for a tiny bit for Rampage to consume Meat Cleaver before reapplying it than using Whirlwind right when you can). The Massacre interaction is just straight up fucked up and should be fixed (why the hell does Rampage try and consume the free-rampage proc twice, that just shouldn't happen). The more tricky part is communicating to people that they will find that this bug will fuck their shit up when they get their tier 21 pieces and spec Bloodbath and find that the only logical thing is to do rampages rampages rampages. Then when they encounter a cleave situation and try and do their rampages rampages rampages by weaving in Whirlwind they will find (if their UI is good enough for them to be able to notice) that only every 2nd of their rampages are cleaving.

It'll be a big problem for people who will not notice (the spells won't actually be doing what they think they're doing, to their detriment), and it's a big problem for people who understand it (option1: ignore it and know that it fucking sucks, or option2: overcompensate by doing 2 whirlwinds between rampages or the superior option3: wait a tiny tiny bit so Meat Cleaver isnt consumed the millisecond it's applied)

Edit3: and option3 is just not fun and will never be a pleasant way to play the game.

[Jalopy]

xd

[Deleted]

xd

This is my dream. One fix though. The first point should say "only when it is cast, instead of both on cast and the final hit"

Edit: Wait are you not shitting me?
AM I DELUSIONAL? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post47710908

TIME HAS SLOWED DOWN FOR ME. I AM NOT SEEING STRAIGHT. I HAVE LOST MY ABILITY TO CRITIQUE SOURCES. PLEASE TELL ME IT'S NOT A RUSE

[Avisuku]

Todays hotfixes include those changes, that is correct.

[Archimtiros]

If you didn't get it yet, this whole post is about getting this bug fixed because it is a gigantic detriment to the cleave playstyle.

Nobody ever disputed the bugs, every post was in agreement with you from the get go. The only issue has been with your repeated condescending and belittling attitude when faced with an opposing argument, yet you've done nothing to substantiate any of your claims, only offered hyperbole and insult.

- - - Updated - - -

xd

Yeah, it's a good change, unfortunately the GCD bug still isn't going anywhere, and it's the more detrimental of the bunch by a wide margin. Hopefully the OP can stop crying now and massage his "secret" dps formulas in silence.

[Deleted]

Campaign over. This just in. Make EU forum posts about bugs, they get instantly fixed.

[Archimtiros]

Campaign over. This just in. Make EU forum posts about bugs, they get instantly fixed.

Yeah because that's how software development works. Clearly they saw your post, compiled a new build, fixed the bug, tested it, slated it for release, and integrated it into the release build which was complied, pushed, and downloaded last week; all during the middle of the night. You know, because it's not possible that they've had it on their to-do list for awhile now.

Jeez, the ego on some people.

[Deleted]

Yeah because that's how software development works. Clearly they saw your post, compiled a new build, fixed the bug, tested it, slated it for release, and integrated it into the release build which was complied, pushed, and downloaded last week; all during the middle of the night. You know, because it's not possible that they've had it on their to-do list for awhile now.

Jeez, the ego on some people.

Sorry I forgot the /s don't be so hard.

[Archimtiros]

Sorry I forgot the /s don't be so hard.

That's ok, this thread has clearly shown that you've forgotten a lot of things. Admitting is the first step!

[Evade97]

As if who he is makes his statements any more or less valid. Attack his argument, not him.

I just wanted to know for my personal curiosity.

[Archimtiros]

I just wanted to know for my personal curiosity.

It doesn't really matter, since nothing that's been said in here is even relevant to T20, aside from Bloodthirst, which I already provided the numbers for.

There's so much more that goes into ranking than personal performance, especially this tier. Between gear (lol, Arcanocrystal), group performance (fast kills), group composition (my group has less AoE than yours), scumbagging (my turn to get the buff this week), RNG (BT happens to crit during Execute), and straight up luck (I didn't get targeted by mechanics), performance is almost the least important thing unless you're doing something horribly wrong, like failing to push your buttons entirely. Let's also not forget that there are only two fights this tier without mechanics which heavily dictate performance (one, up until WCL blacklisted Goroth infernals).

There are rank 1's who make fundamental mistakes, and there are rank 10,000's who play perfectly in shitty environments; ranking is a combination of factors, most of which are beyond your personal control.

[Serahline]

I just wanted to know for my personal curiosity.

I'm pretty sure Manifestatio is Polihanna if I had to take a guess

[Luminarium]

I'm pretty sure Manifestatio is Polihanna if I had to take a guess

Doesn't matter if he was polihanna, Kelade, God himself. The posts started off with a fantastic valid discussion. Valid to the point fixes are made (not necessarily because of his posts) however follow ups descended into such pathetic immaturity i only skimmed through them as they became a bore to read.

Don't understand why people have to get like this. Anonymity brings out the armies of obnoxious trolls, but I have never seen the reason to go on a personal offensive. Attack the numbers not the posters. If your numbers fall short, then they fell short. Point is, someone took the time to theorycraft a possible alternate route for best damage. And they can still be re-addressed later down the line should certain builds/abilities be changed.

The way this post went though. I'd prefer to see the whole thing deleted.