Do you believe Alt-Right Neo Nazis should be listened to?

[Hiricine]

Well I'd certainly listen to them about stuff thats not exclusively neo nazi. Like if my Doctor was a closeted neo nazi I'd certainly listen to his advice on blood pressure.

[Deleted]

Historically speaking, violence works on nazis while talking to them didn't. We had an entire war dealing with them.

That was also in the 30's and everything was different then.
We have learned from our past and nothing says that that will be happening again.
It was also 100's of thousands of people voting for Mr Adolf vs a few thousand nazi's scattered across the world with the most being in the US in their little shit cottages in the swamps where they come out of twice a year to cause some trouble.

Who gives a fuck about these rednecks?
Just let em say what they want, how stupid it may be and let em crawl back to the middle of the US where they can live in poverty.

Stop blowing shit out of proportions.

Also I say this as a person from the Netherlands with Jewish backgrounds with both sides of my family fighting in WW2.

[ati87]

I know. But you don't defeat todays Nazis or equivalent with violent acts against them. In their minds that strengthens their arguments for why they are the way they are.

They don't need any help to feel more embolden the entire current day ideology is build in such a way that everything they do strengthens their believes. And if needed they will just make shit up (which they do plenty off)

If you look at previous ex nazi's they all have the same thing in common. Nobody convinced them to let go of their hatred they have to do it themselves.

[ReleaseDay]

Listen to them long enough to get them on the terrorist watch list, and for someone to line up a punch. Their only platform should be a stretcher.

Openly inciting violence is fine, just don't be surprised when it hits you back.

[Deleted]

Do you believe communist Antifa should be listened to?

Listened to? No. Should they be silenced? No again.
Everyone should be able to share their opinions, no matter how twisted they are.

[Viconia]

Some ideas are bad at face value, but I've seen unclear stuff treated the same way. It's a dangerous path to not allow a platform to ideas your ideology opposes. That's why Facebook concerns me despite how useful it is: Checks and balances doesn't apply when one major platform controls information flow.

[Sandraudiga]

Yes, because idea's that are suppressed tend to fester and grow. Stupid ideas like that of neo nazis given the full light of day receive the scorn they deserve and tend to shrink rather than grow.

It's no different than other things that are suppressed. Alcohol consumption and alcohol poisoning increased dramatically under prohibition and drug use has increased under the war on drugs. Telling someone they aren't allowed to control what goes in, or out, of their own bodies tends to be a bad idea. Let the people choose, and they generally choose the better path in the west.

Not true for everyone, there are always people who believe stupid ideas like neo nazis, flat earthers etc, but they are tiny minorities in places where people are allowed to believe stupid shit generally.

[Deleted]

Nobody deserves to be listened to. Free speech doesn't cover anyone paying attention.

You are both right and wrong with this statement, as this is a really complicated subject(not the subject of nazi's, but rather the subject of having to listen to everyone).

Firstly, of course there is no such thing as everyone having to pay attention to everything and give them a podium to speak on, so in this you are very right.

But on the other hand, we as a society, do have to listen to disgruntled people in our society. I'm not saying that we should give every political leaning equal opportunity of representation. But that doesn't mean that we should not listen to what these people have to say, and that we do not need to listen as to why these people are disgruntled. Simply ignoring them and putting them on some watch list isn't going to solve anything. We as a society simply can't afford not to listen to everyone in our society, that is why we have things like gender neutral or wheelchair accessible bathrooms. They are not there for the bulk of the people, but for some other very small minority it is a true blessing that they are there.

So again, not saying that we should listen to any form of racial supremacy nut job group for our political leanings, but we should listen to these people as to why they feel the need to act the way that they do. Even if its only because of a lack in education that they feel the way they do, then we as a society have failed to bring this education to them.

[Deleted]

Yes, because idea's that are suppressed tend to fester and grow. Stupid ideas like that of neo nazis given the full light of day receive the scorn they deserve and tend to shrink rather than grow.

It's no different than other things that are suppressed. Alcohol consumption and alcohol poisoning increased dramatically under prohibition and drug use has increased under the war on drugs. Telling someone they aren't allowed to control what goes in, or out, of their own bodies tends to be a bad idea. Let the people choose, and they generally choose the better path in the west.

Not true for everyone, there are always people who believe stupid ideas like neo nazis, flat earthers etc, but they are tiny minorities in places where people are allowed to believe stupid shit generally.

Exactly. Nothing to have whole movements for (punch your local nazi) and have a whole country go mental about.
Americans.. sometimes.. eugh.

[The One Percent]

Just because you allow them to speak (as long as they do it peacefully and within the parameters of the law), doesn't mean you have to listen. If you listen, it doesn't mean you have to agree. You also can choose not to associate with people who have views you dislike. I don't trust a government to control who is and isn't allowed to speak, even if in the beginning it only starts by silencing disgusting groups like nazis and antifa. No one is unbiased or without agenda, hence no one can be trusted with the responsibility of controlling speech without using it as a weapon against anyone who is a dissenter.

It amazes me that incredibly simple concepts like this need explanation, yet here we are.

[OnlineSamantha]

You are both right and wrong with this statement, as this is a really complicated subject(not the subject of nazi's, but rather the subject of having to listen to everyone).

Firstly, of course there is no such thing as everyone having to pay attention to everything and give them a podium to speak on, so in this you are very right.

But on the other hand, we as a society, do have to listen to disgruntled people in our society. I'm not saying that we should give every political leaning equal opportunity of representation. But that doesn't mean that we should not listen to what these people have to say, and that we do not need to listen as to why these people are disgruntled. Simply ignoring them and putting them on some watch list isn't going to solve anything. We as a society simply can't afford not to listen to everyone in our society, that is why we have things like gender neutral or wheelchair accessible bathrooms. They are not there for the bulk of the people, but for some other very small minority it is a true blessing that they are there.

So again, not saying that we should listen to any form of racial supremacy nut job group for our political leanings, but we should listen to these people as to why they feel the need to act the way that they do. Even if its only because of a lack in education that they feel the way they do, then we as a society have failed to bring this education to them.

I agree with you that it's more complicated than simply telling them to shut up about their beliefs. I also see where you're coming from with getting to the root of the problem, and I agree with you on that. It's part of the reason Trump won the election I think. Clinton didn't have a lot of love for all the "regular people" in the country and their concerns, being so quick to label them "deplorables" and other stuff.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yes, because idea's that are suppressed tend to fester and grow. Stupid ideas like that of neo nazis given the full light of day receive the scorn they deserve and tend to shrink rather than grow..

This did not work in the 30s.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yes, mostly because I don't think the words the OP used mean what he thinks they do. Also to piss him off .

[Deleted]

This did not work in the 30s.

This isn't the 30's.

[Tiwack]

How can you rationally debate inherently irrational ideology?

There are white nationalists in the US who suggest that this is a country founded by and for Christian white men. If you point out that there were indigenous people here prior to those white men, they don't care. If you point out that the entire reason the pilgrims came over was to escape religious persecution in England, that is similarly irrelevant.

When the people you want to debate literally believe that huge swaths of humanity are in fact inferior sub races, what rational argument can you possibly present that might actually have an impact?

You can always ask who they think will be next once the land has been rid of X, Y and Z dehumanized individuals. Their neighbor or themselves? Try to learn where they are coming from and who led them astray as a useful idiot on such a despicable path. If they value Liberty how much room will it have in the dream world they're fighting for? If they're just spewing feelings and opinions that's fine, just ignore them and walk away as they're not interested in arguing and are to far gone already in most cases.. If you feel endangered and threatened with no way out you can start punching as a last resort... but do remember that escalation is what their leaders often hope for and want just for the publicity itself. There's no easy way out of the situation and it's all the more frustrating when groups undermine themselves by further dividing the population instead of standing together and making compromises that can benefit everyone instead of the selected few. Rome wasn't built in a day. Strength in numbers...

[JohnBrown1917]

This isn't the 30's.

Yes, and?

10ch

[Draco-Onis]

This isn't the 30's.

yea it's 2017 you would never have people shouting Nazi ideology in the street with torches and killing people...

[Skulltaker]

Yes, they should. By a therapist.

[Deleted]

yea it's 2017 you would never have people shouting Nazi ideology in the street with torches and killing people...

Can we do the same with all the other extremists?
Can we have a "punch your local muslim extremists today"?
Or "punch your local BLM supporter"?
Or "punch your local Jewish extremist"?

Why is all of that not allowed while you guys in the US go around and punch a few Nazi's that have the extract same twisted idea's that the other 3 above have?

If I went around and went on a little crusade on any of the above 3 id be in jail within 24 hours and you know it.

[Draco-Onis]

Can we do the same with all the other extremists?
Can we have a "punch your local muslim extremists today"?
Or "punch your local BLM supporter"?
Or "punch your local Jewish extremist"?

Why is all of that not allowed while you guys in the US go around and punch a few Nazi's that have the extract same twisted idea's that the other 3 above have?

If I went around and went on a little crusade on any of the above 3 id be in jail within 24 hours and you know it.

What does your little rant have to do with your comment that just because it's 2017 people are somehow different? Nazis can speak their minds but we are free to not listen and drown them out. They are not owed the right to be listened to, as per violence as I have stated before violence makes those Nazi subhuman garbage into victims so no they are not worth it.