If they announce legacy servers at Blizzcon, would you play them?

[Halyon]

As I recall merely getting that scepter was a massive undertaking. I don't mind as long as it's not a handout.

Define hand-out. And what would you think of account-wide getting the mount? Some people would probably be outraged if they allowed us 'new-fangled plebs' to get their precious achievement mount from way back when, but it would be a huge hook for a lot of people to support this legacy stuff as well...

[Thimagryn]

I'm seeing 2 problems with this threat that is caused by most people, and its leading this threads purpose out of direction:

1. Legacy servers and private servers are 2 different subjects

You can't discuss Legacy servers without discussing the elephant in the room. An official server that is free from all the private server bullshit must also be subject to the reality of private servers existing as competition. They're not going to magically go away just because Blizzard decides to make em official, and this debate will continue as long as we have no information on what viable business model Blizzard will take. Monetization will greatly affect how people react to Legacy, especially when the discussion always involves private servers as a talking point.

Keep in mind what keeps Legacy discussion relevant are the Private Server enthusiasts.

2. Legacy servers IS NOT JUST CLASSIC WOW.

The problem with any Legacy discussion is it's not... anything. Everyone has their own specific and particular opinion of what Legacy is or should be, and everyone is discussing as though everyone else who wants Legacy agrees with their exact image of what they want. No, Legacy isn't just Classic WoW. But it's not the expansions either. Nor is it static or dynamic. It's nothing, because it doesn't exist. All we can really talk about is a close approximation of what happens on private servers; or a collective guesstimate of what and how patches get rolled out and for how long.

The reality is that WoW classic will never be able to satisfy every Legacy player because everyone has a different concept of what they want to see. Expectations are too high and undoubtedly impossible to satisfy everyone. If you are a vanilla Pally player and Pallies don't get patched until June, then you're not going to be happy waiting out 6+ months just to get a fix for problems you already know about. These are the little things that directly affect players and that aren't going to be waved away by Legacy Veterans as an acceptable means. People will unsub over things like this when they realize their expectations aren't being met, and will ultimately blame 'Blizzard's approach' to patching, even if they roll out every patch 1:1 to how it was in Vanilla. People give the benefit of the doubt to private servers because there is no alternative. Blizzard doesn't get that slack. Even Blizzard knows this.

[Coffeh]

I have functional hands, eyeballs, ears and a brain. I can look up how Vanilla worked, what it was like to play...and I wouldn't like it. No, it's true that I didn't personally experience Vanilla as it was...and I'm glad I wasn't. It sounds like it was way too grindy and demanding. I've heard horror-stories of people grinding pvp ranks, having real, tangible impact on their real lives, because that was what the game demanded to get to the higher eschelons of the pvp system.

Same with getting just decent gear, farming consumables and resistance buffs for certain content. I don't care how 'hardcore' you want a game to be to satisfy you, but 'grindcore' is something that can be avoided either way. A lot of the difficulty about things with vanilla (and some of BC as well) was arbitrary.

God forbid people actually work and put a little effort for what they earn in the game, unlike current WoW where everything is handed to you on a silver platter. Do you realize how insulting it is how the legendary system works? What were they thinking...go 2-shot a couple mobs, kill some squirrels, go hand in your emissary and BAM legendary. That's sad. Go watch about a video on how to get Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros. That's how they used to design the game. Everything is so lazy now.

The key difference between then and now is the mindset of the player. You talk about grinding pvp ranks. Guess what: not everyone can be a Grand Marshall or High Warlord. People back then were okay with the fact that others who put in way more time actually got rewarded for that effort. Same with tier gear and pretty much everything in the game. That's not grinding; that's how an mmo should be designed. The barriers they put in WoW now (pathfinder, for example) are just arbitrary, have no story relation and feel completely random. Rather than an organic style design of things that actually take effort and time they just make everything incredibly easy and just put a time stamp on when it'll be available. Lazy and dumb design. I really miss vanilla. When you earned something it felt good because you actually earned it. I felt nothing getting legendaries in Legion. I didn't earn anything. You don't work for anything anymore. How do you feel accomplishment in a game that requires nothing of you? But wait..RNG is fun!

Anyway, you can have your poor man's WoW. I'll keep hoping the great game that it once was will become available.

[Sharby]

I'm of the opinion that the game has only gotten better overtime, so probably not.

[JustRob]

Define hand-out. And what would you think of account-wide getting the mount? Some people would probably be outraged if they allowed us 'new-fangled plebs' to get their precious achievement mount from way back when, but it would be a huge hook for a lot of people to support this legacy stuff as well...

I was a noob during vanilla, so I didn't see much of the raiding side of the AQ event. But skimming over it on WoWpedia tells me you need to commit to several long raids with at least 30 people, a server wide material collecting event that everyone needs to participate in which can take months, and more difficult feats. If they leave it exactly as it was, I don't see the problem with it. Sure some people would complain, but some people always complain. Getting that mount on a legacy server would still mean you'd have to commit yourself to a guild, get raiding gear, do MC, BWL, several outdoor raidbosses, and spending a couple months of your time playing. I'd say that's enough dedication to earn you the mount, if you can accomplish it.

[Halyon]

God forbid people actually work and put a little effort for what they earn in the game

Dude, I like earning things. I don't like being run around by the nuts like I was a masochist. There's a difference. Whatever floats your duckie, just don't act like your opinion is the bar to go by. Part of the problem with some of you legacy people is that you act so high and mighty that you beat your head bloody against a wall for half a cookie, and because things aren't as needlessly punishing nowadays, we're being coddled by EVERYTHING, just because you personally went through something a lot of other people would call horrible design.

[Darktbs]

The key difference between then and now is the mindset of the player. You talk about grinding pvp ranks. Guess what: not everyone can be a Grand Marshall or High Warlord. People back then were okay with the fact that others who put in way more time actually got rewarded for that effort. Same with tier gear and pretty much everything in the game. That's not grinding; that's how an mmo should be designed.

The problem is not the that only one can be the GM/HW.But it was a bad system in itself, it punished players that took small breaks and was a immense grind causing Burn outs.Thats not a good design and is good that the game moved away from it.

[The barriers they put in WoW now (pathfinder, for example) are just arbitrary, have no story relation and feel completely random. Rather than an organic style design of things that actually take effort and time they just make everything incredibly easy and just put a time stamp on when it'll be available.

So the questlines like Suramar before the Raid are no story related?Are you going to ignore the hundreds of wipes raiders do on bosses before actually killing them?Or Ranked pvp?

Pathfinder is a controversy thing, that many like and many dislike for their own reasons, but you are generalizing everything as "incredibly easy" ignoring the things that are a challenge.

Lazy and dumb design. I really miss vanilla. When you earned something it felt good because you actually earned it. I felt nothing getting legendaries in Legion. I didn't earn anything. You don't work for anything anymore.

So i didn't work for my Artifact challenge skins?I wasn't overjoyed when i finally killed Kruul after wiping hundreds of times because of me and Velen?I wasted my weekend learning, changing and buying itens for my Frost mage challenge and you say i didn't work for it?

Yeah, if you are going to sit your ass in Dalaran waiting for LFD or LFR you will go no where, but don't generalize everything and everyone to your ridiculous assumptions.

[Perkunas]

Why would I pay money for something illegal? These server owners steal other ppl-s property (Blizz) and also getting money for it, disgusting to the last. More so "donating" and paying for extras to unlock can easily make these servers more expensive to play than the real ones. Pay to win, sounds familiar?

At the end, all private WoW servers are illegal and lure ppl that can't or don't want to pay for the game. There are many of them and there will always be many of them. You won't be able to get them playing the real WoW even by setting up those legacy servers, because these real servers will never be free to play and it will cost money to 100% of them to be able to access the same thing that is available to them for free. These ppl are not a hidden mass who left WoW for reasons over the years. These ppl are stingy and will never ever pay money for the game, and have never touched the real game for a second.

So you honestly think that people play Vanilla primarily because it's free? Why then are those Vanilla realms far more populated than any other version of WoW that is also free? There are FREE Cata servers, MoP servers, Wrath servers, BC servers, WoD and Legion servers. Far and away the highest number of players on realms are Vanilla. The server that shall not be named had ridiculous concurrent players and a thriving community who could have played any free version of WoW. Why then do they flock to the vanilla realms over the others? I mean they are all free and why are the Legion realms not filled to the absolute brim when so many people are playing retail? Surely if it's primarily about the money and Legion is objectively a better version of the game the majority of people playing Warcraft would be playing Legion on a free server instead.

Obviously the money isn't really the issue. Retail versions provide a better experience. Less bugs, faster fixes, balances, content, support, etc. So I'd stop using that argument, chief.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, I like earning things. I don't like being run around by the nuts like I was a masochist. There's a difference. Whatever floats your duckie, just don't act like your opinion is the bar to go by. Part of the problem with some of you legacy people is that you act so high and mighty that you beat your head bloody against a wall for half a cookie, and because things aren't as needlessly punishing nowadays, we're being coddled by EVERYTHING, just because you personally went through something a lot of other people would call horrible design.

I think the issue I have is with the sense of entitlement the modern mmo has instilled in players. Not only Warcraft but almost every single game that has released post-Wrath of the Lich King. There's a subsection of the population comprised mostly of MMO veterans(I'm talking BC Warcraft and before I came from EQ and Earth and Beyond) that miss the days where you had to rely on others for progression. Working together and building relationships was the only way to succeed and time and effort translated into reward. We've given up on hoping Blizzard changes the retail version of the game back to that model as clearly a lot of people don't like it which is why we support a legacy server.

[anon5123]

3-4k players on each realm? I know a certain WOTLK private server which has 10-12k players every day and has pretty much Blizzlike scripting already. They also have a TBC server with similar numbers. Both are lagless, even more so than Blizzard's server. You loot something and it's literally instant, there's no delay whatsoever.

WOTLK server architecture =/= vanilla server architecture

Nostalrius was barely playable when it got over 8k people online. There was a 1-2s delay on everything. And no, it wasn't my latency, because my latency was always around 100ms, and when the population was below 5k there was no lag.

[Darktbs]

WOTLK server architecture =/= vanilla server architecture

Nostalrius was barely playable when it got over 8k people online. There was a 1-2s delay on everything. And no, it wasn't my latency, because my latency was always around 100ms, and when the population was below 5k there was no lag.

Just a tip, don't use Private servers names, even dead ones.Its agaisn't the servers rules.

[Halyon]

I think the issue I have is with the sense of entitlement the modern mmo has instilled in players. Not only Warcraft but almost every single game that has released post-Wrath of the Lich King. There's a subsection of the population comprised mostly of MMO veterans(I'm talking BC Warcraft and before I came from EQ and Earth and Beyond) that miss the days where you had to rely on others for progression. Working together and building relationships was the only way to succeed and time and effort translated into reward. We've given up on hoping Blizzard changes the retail version of the game back to that model as clearly a lot of people don't like it which is why we support a legacy server.

Well, it goes both ways, I'll accept that, but you can't deny that not everything is just automatically easy-mode because some games in the past were more punishing than they should have been when you completed them, and then wear that masochism like a badge of honor that everyone else should praise you for... That is also entitlement.

There needs to be room for both, not people clamoring for everyone else to 'get on their level' and enjoy it because regardless if I did or not, you should suffer the same to be considered worthy.

Doesn't work that way, and it never will.

I'm all for achievements like the ones that awarded the black/plagued proto-drakes. I couldn't get them at the time, and it sucks for me, but good on people who got them. As well as Tribute to Insanity. I will most likely never be good enough to get things like that without being carried in some fashion, but then that bit of the game is just not for me, and that's fine. I still think it's cool.

But don't even dare to suggest that stuff like that is all that should be of any real merit in the game as a whole. That's how it was, as far as I see it.

[Perkunas]

Well, it goes both ways, I'll accept that, but you can't deny that not everything is just automatically easy-mode because some games in the past were more punishing than they should have been when you completed them, and then wear that masochism like a badge of honor that everyone else should praise you for... That is also entitlement.

There needs to be room for both, not people clamoring for everyone else to 'get on their level' and enjoy it because regardless if I did or not, you should suffer the same to be considered worthy.

Doesn't work that way, and it never will.

Nobody demanded they be respected save asshats. People just gave it because they saw somebody in full tier 2 who clearly put in the effort to get to where he was. I'm also not saying things were harder. Content is a lot harder in Heroic and Mythic than it was in Vanilla, but the amount of effort and time you had to put in back then was what set it apart.

I totally agree that there's room for both. Which is why long ago I abandoned trying to demand Blizzard change the game. I gave up caring about LFR, class homogenization, LFD, gear hand-outs. Lots of people like those things even though I despise them. There's totally room for both just not in the same version of the game.

[Halyon]

Nobody demanded they be respected save asshats. People just gave it because they saw somebody in full tier 2 who clearly put in the effort to get to where he was. I'm also not saying things were harder. Content is a lot harder in Heroic and Mythic than it was in Vanilla, but the amount of effort and time you had to put in back then was what set it apart.

I totally agree that there's room for both. Which is why long ago I abandoned trying to demand Blizzard change the game. I gave up caring about LFR, class homogenization, LFD, gear hand-outs. Lots of people like those things even though I despise them. There's totally room for both just not in the same version of the game.

Time is a very precious resource nowadays. People do a lot more with their lives than just sit on their asses and collect bear-asses. It's not justifiable anymore. Again, difficulty's all fine and dandy. Hell, time-consuming is also fine, in the specific circumstance that you're not forced to actively spend a ridiculous amount of time in front of the screen, and in long sittings, lest it's outright detrimental to your progress.

[Perkunas]

Time is a very precious resource nowadays. People do a lot more with their lives than just sit on their asses and collect bear-asses. It's not justifiable anymore. Again, difficulty's all fine and dandy. Hell, time-consuming is also fine, in the specific circumstance that you're not forced to actively spend a ridiculous amount of time in front of the screen, and in long sittings, lest it's outright detrimental to your progress.

Some people still find the time and what of the younger generations who have endless amounts of it. Should we as adults force the entire genre to change because we have responsibility now? Is it wrong to deny others the fun that we had when we were that age? Warcraft changed for us. It adapted to our needs as we got older, but if younger me with all that time had a choice between a game with faster paths of progression and less progress based around social interactions or Vanilla I'd totally opt for the latter. Perhaps generation Z has different preferences than we did. I can't say for certain but there should be something out there for people who like both styles.

[Deleted]

Some dude on reddit made a compilation of 22 "private server population reports of 2017"
With screen shots of the reports

Across the 22 servers were 121 286 players

I would say that's a pretty good number of potential customers for Legacy since it's just a fraction of the real number of people playing on private servers.
This was just a compilation of servers who actually came out and showed their numbers.

@Shadowpunkz
Moderation note: I don't see how this post is germane to the topic of whether or not someone will play on a Blizzard-sponsored server. [ML]

[Halyon]

Some people still find the time and what of the younger generations who have endless amounts of it. Should we as adults force the entire genre to change because we have responsibility now? Is it wrong to deny others the fun that we had when we were that age? Warcraft changed for us. It adapted to our needs as we got older, but if younger me with all that time had a choice between a game with faster paths of progression and less progress based around social interactions or Vanilla I'd totally opt for the latter. Perhaps generation Z has different preferences than we did. I can't say for certain but there should be something out there for people who like both styles.

No of course not. Like I said before, room for both. Vanilla was not room for both. That's all I mean by it.

[Perkunas]

No of course not. Like I said before, room for both. Vanilla was not room for both. That's all I mean by it.

Which is why I'm for Legacy. Legion for people who like the newer ways and Vanilla for those that prefer the old way.

[Halyon]

Which is why I'm for Legacy. Legion for people who like the newer ways and Vanilla for those that prefer the old way.

It gives off an air of special pleading. Not accusing you specifically, but that is how it can come off as.

[Perkunas]

It gives off an air of special pleading. Not accusing you specifically, but that is how it can come off as.

Demanding it would but supporting the idea doesn't really. I just don't see how one version of the game could provide the systems both groups enjoy. Modern WoW is designed around many of the systems that are a bridge too far for many in the pro-legacy position. I play retail as most of my friends do, but I'd shift to legacy primarily if they came about. Otherwise it's the pattern of sub for 6 months and quit for 6 months that many of us have been doing since Wrath ended while hoping for a game that gives us what we want and isn't released in shambles...

[Halyon]

Demanding it would but supporting the idea doesn't really. I just don't see how one version of the game could provide the systems both groups enjoy. Modern WoW is designed around many of the systems that are a bridge too far for many in the pro-legacy position. I play retail as most of my friends do, but I'd shift to legacy primarily if they came about. Otherwise it's the pattern of sub for 6 months and quit for 6 months that many of us have been doing since Wrath ended while hoping for a game that gives us what we want and isn't released in shambles...

Pushing Mythic+ dungeons, mythic raiding... A good sum of achievements are difficult and time-consuming...unlocking the mage-tower artifact skins... The things are there... It just doesn't permeate the game as vanilla had. The amount of content is greater now, but there is difficult content...