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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    What nerf?
    Quality post, you are adding so much value to the discussion.

    Blizzard's new design philosophy is to nerf old content to make new content more relevant.
    The problem with this is that you pretty much get nerfed every single tier just to make the next tier attractive, which feels bad, it's not a natural progression of power.

  2. #22
    Never used whispers. Never gonna. Aff is much more fun without proc trinkets. Too much rng built into the spec why add more rng to make the chances of bigger dps even worse.

    I don't play for that one big pull. I wana be strong all the time not stupid 1 pull and shit 25% and avg on rest.

  3. #23
    So i was using 895 whisp + newly dropped 910 arcano together but after nerf maybe 930 tarnished + 910 arcano might be more viable to use? (esp. in raids) Still have 4pc bonus to give buff too.

    I think new combo is tarnished+arcano. I'm smart right?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Never used whispers. Never gonna. Aff is much more fun without proc trinkets. Too much rng built into the spec why add more rng to make the chances of bigger dps even worse.

    I don't play for that one big pull. I wana be strong all the time not stupid 1 pull and shit 25% and avg on rest.
    This is a surprisingly frequent complaint from people, and while I understand it in principle, I feel that many people labor under the misconception that procs like Whispers are detrimental to skillful play because they introduce variance. In reality, however, they INCREASE the margins for skilled players, because the trade-off for temporary effects is (naturally) that they are more powerful. Leveraging that power to maximum effect through smart play is a great way for skilled players to eke out advantages over time. The variance per fight isn't gigantic - certainly not 25% of your damage. It exists, don't get me wrong, but as always there's peaks and troughs and all you can really game for is the expected value. Yeah it sucks to roll snake eyes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bet on 7. A correct decision is not invalidated by an unfortunate outcome, and the sample size across pulls and pull durations is large enough.

    Of course, that does not mean Whispers is always ideal. Nor does it mean there isn't value in choosing lower but more consistent damage, particularly if that spread increases due to players not handling the procs correctly. The trade-off of ease-of-use vs. more output has become increasingly frequent in WoW, and is often a bargain many players willingly and gladly enter into. That's entirely understandable - but it doesn't make the alternative less optimal.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Walrock View Post
    Quality post, you are adding so much value to the discussion.

    Blizzard's new design philosophy is to nerf old content to make new content more relevant.
    The problem with this is that you pretty much get nerfed every single tier just to make the next tier attractive, which feels bad, it's not a natural progression of power.
    A trinket isn't content, and if this was just part of of 'nerfing every single tier' then more things from T19 would be nerfed than a couple of trinkets. Typically they rarely nerf things from prior tiers, because usually they stop being competitive on their own.

    I think the big issue with Whispers is that it was a poorly designed trinket from the start. Because it's main advantage was the percentage-based health increase, it was always going to be useful beyond something it's item level typically would be. Then when you add increased titan forging which ramps up the percentage, it just gets out of hand. It's like the old SoO amplification trinkets.
    Last edited by Jaman; 2017-10-26 at 04:41 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Never used whispers. Never gonna. Aff is much more fun without proc trinkets. Too much rng built into the spec why add more rng to make the chances of bigger dps even worse.

    I don't play for that one big pull. I wana be strong all the time not stupid 1 pull and shit 25% and avg on rest.
    it was pretty good for WiA builds as it gave you another dump window.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Pretty happy about this nerf, I have a 910 whispers that I use for my aoe build and I can't tell you how fucking annoying that trinket can be with never proccing or producing when you can't use it. It's value totally tanks when you cannot utilise the proc, anyone who uses it will attest to that. Glad I can finally equip my mastery stat stick now for those fights without feeling like I'm missing out on that one lucky whispers parse of chain procs.

    Perhaps one of the most frustrating trinkets I've ever played with. Good riddance!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Walrock View Post
    Quality post, you are adding so much value to the discussion.

    Blizzard's new design philosophy is to nerf old content to make new content more relevant.
    The problem with this is that you pretty much get nerfed every single tier just to make the next tier attractive, which feels bad, it's not a natural progression of power.
    They didn't do a very good job nerfing it if my 920 one still beats a 945 Charm and 925 Owl w/socket.

  9. #29
    It seems to me that the nerf is a huge nerf, especially as the buff is nerfed but the debuff remains the same. But after sim it, I don't see a huge difference.

    I sim pre-nerf and post-netf gul'dan trinket (915 itlvl) with various combination of legends on gear 934-939 for 1 target, 2 target and 3 target, and with various combinations of talents (MG+Cont), (WiA+Cont), (WiA+AC). All the sims do 1.02% less dps than before the nerf. So, if the sims are correct, the nerf is not as bad as I thought. But I don't know why I still have the impression that the nerf is much more noticeable than that...mmm i don't know....

    I suppose that the dps loss is more huge as more itlvl you have. Anyway, I'll go looking for a trinket that can replace it in multitarget bosses (for ST bosses I have a good tarnished trinket).

    What do you think? Has anyone else tried sim the nerf impact?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by millanzarreta View Post
    But I don't know why I still have the impression that the nerf is much more noticeable than that...mmm i don't know....
    Old Whispers procs, especially high ilvl ones, were super obvious. Suddenly your GCD was massively shorter and everything felt sped up. Now the proc is much smaller and you get a constant higher Int level instead. Every single number being slightly higher is effective but hard to notice.

  11. #31
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    double stat stick is the new meta

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    double stat stick is the new meta
    How I've been rolling for a while now. 925 int/mast w/mast gem, 920 int/haste with leech. Have lots of other interesting trinkets from the trinket lottery, but none seem particularly worthwhile to use over raw stats.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Oh look, 40% nerf for casters, 10% for melee

    Basically this looks like "we know the current content trinkets are shit, so to make them stink less we're nerfing the old ones"

    I had a titanforged 915 heroic whispers, and it went from 44% to 25% haste.

    Of course, the devils due debuff stayed exactly where it was.
    Why would any melee want to be using this trinket, which gives intellect and only procs off spells?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Why would any melee want to be using this trinket, which gives intellect and only procs off spells?
    He's comparing the Whispers nerf(which is huge) to the CoF "nerf"(which actually ended up being a buff for some specs)
    Tradushuffle
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    He's comparing the Whispers nerf(which is huge) to the CoF "nerf"(which actually ended up being a buff for some specs)
    I wouldn't call the Whispers debuff huge. I got a 915 whispers and it now gives me more int than my 930 stat sticks I got from relinquished. Would've been nice if they reduced the potency is the haste debuff as well. Never got lucky with CoF so I'm not gonna comment on that.

  16. #36
    Got myself a 935 titanforged haste stat stick with a socket, whispers can suck it

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Somewhat unrelated but it's a trinket, soooo: how is Charm of the Rising Tide? Using that (945) and Tome of Unravelling Sanity (910) for destro.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Good riddance, this trinket tilted me on fights such as Maiden or Avatar when you can't burst at key moments because of the debuff

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by j0ust View Post
    Somewhat unrelated but it's a trinket, soooo: how is Charm of the Rising Tide? Using that (945) and Tome of Unravelling Sanity (910) for destro.
    It's a good trinket, as long as you make sure to plan when you proc it around movement.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by nicci View Post
    why the hell is nobody talking about it? I expected 10 posts on the first page about this very subject here. Wake up people.
    I can tell you I'm madder than hell and I'm just not going to take it anymore.

    Not really, I actually think the change makes sense because of the way the damn things scales, as opposed to set stats like arcano which will get naturally phased out. I'm still OP after the nerf and I'm tired of these old fucking trinkets and I'm glad to be moving on.

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