Why it' so hard to have credible Star Wars Imperials that are not villains.

[Gamdwelf]

Swtor is full of non-villain imperials.

Maybe indulge in a Franchise before making silly threads.

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Oh how wrong you are. Star Wars is very much full of Grey areas.

Lana is best girl.

Its like you don't realize that swtor was not palpatine's empire, Maybe indulge in a Franchise before posting silly posts.

[Super Kami Dende]

Its like you don't realize that swtor was not palpatine's empire, Maybe indulge in a Franchise before posting silly posts.

It's like you don't realise Palpatines Empire was based on bringing back the Sith Empires of Old. Which were also Imperial. Hell even Tarkin who was considered to be a pretty "evil" guy was a War hero for the Republic.

Even Queen Amidalas BLACK security Officer Captain Panaka became a high ranking Officer (Moff) in the Empire. He would be considered a Hero as well.

"Panaka's loyalty to Palpatine was great. Still, he was as good a man as anyone in the Emperor's inner circle could ever be, and much better than most. Panaka was… an option I wish had been left open to us."
―Breha Organa

[Gamdwelf]

It's like you don't realise Palpatines Empire was based on bringing back the Sith Empires of Old. Which were also Imperial. Hell even Tarkin who was considered to be a pretty "evil" guy was a War hero for the Republic.

Even Queen Amidalas BLACK security Officer Captain Panaka became a high ranking Officer (Moff) in the Empire. He would be considered a Hero as well.

Swtor ain't even canon its not even worth discussing.

[Mormolyce]

Oh how wrong you are. Star Wars is very much full of Grey areas.

Lana is best girl.

In SWTOR, you can have smuggler healers. It takes a lot of liberties.

Also games were C-canon at best. SWTOR's status as any kind of canon is debateable in the current canon.

[Super Kami Dende]

Swtor ain't even canon its not even worth discussing.

then discuss the second point of that Quote? Captain Panaka was a "good" imperial.

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In SWTOR, you can have smuggler healers. It takes a lot of liberties.

Also games were C-canon at best. SWTOR's status as any kind of canon is debateable in the current canon.

Considering they were about to add Revan to Clone Wars before it finished and that in Rebels the Mandalorian wars were mentioned. The Old Republic isn't completely out of the way of being canon.

[Keyblader]

My two cents into this is that you can, temporarily. At the beginning of a story you can have a character that is raised by imperials, maybe it is strict, but they still have a good childhood. The child decides to join the empire (when they are old enough obviously) and works their way up the ranks. Stopping rebel attacks on blockades, or imperial strongholds. As long as our protagonist does not know exactly what the empire is doing to these people, besides arresting them, the story stays in the imperial's favor. Eventually some kind of event with someone being executed, or beaten, or worse, and the character begins the question imperial methods.

I have a feeling this is what the gist of Battlefront 2's campaign will be. Her father was an imperial officer, she works to impress him, and become high up the chain. Something happens, from the trailers it looks like she meets Luke and he convinces her or something. Also in the trailer there is a line where she says "I'm your superior stand down!" Sounds like a rebel is being threatened and she's starting to crack.

In any case it is kind of hard to focus on an imperial character and always have them remain Empire loyal, unless the character in the story is just an evil person, and the narrative of the story is to wipe out all opposition, with no mercy for those that resist.

[Super Kami Dende]

My two cents into this is that you can, temporarily. At the beginning of a story you can have a character that is raised by imperials, maybe it is strict, but they still have a good childhood. The child decides to join the empire (when they are old enough obviously) and works their way up the ranks. Stopping rebel attacks on blockades, or imperial strongholds. As long as our protagonist does not know exactly what the empire is doing to these people, besides arresting them, the story stays in the imperial's favor. Eventually some kind of event with someone being executed, or beaten, or worse, and the character begins the question imperial methods.

I have a feeling this is what the gist of Battlefront 2's campaign will be. Her father was an imperial officer, she works to impress him, and become high up the chain. Something happens, from the trailers it looks like she meets Luke and he convinces her or something. Also in the trailer there is a line where she says "I'm your superior stand down!" Sounds like a rebel is being threatened and she's starting to crack.

In any case it is kind of hard to focus on an imperial character and always have them remain Empire loyal, unless the character in the story is just an evil person, and the narrative of the story is to wipe out all opposition, with no mercy for those that resist.

As I pointed out before, Captain Panaka was a good man that stayed loyal to the Empire until he was murdered by Saw Guerra who was a nutjob extremist.

[Keyblader]

As I pointed out before, Captain Panaka was a good man that stayed loyal to the Empire until he was murdered by Saw Guerra who was a nutjob extremist.

Yep, sounds about right.

[Gamdwelf]

As I pointed out before, Captain Panaka was a good man that stayed loyal to the Empire until he was murdered by Saw Guerra who was a nutjob extremist.

He basically allowed slavery on the moon where he had a mansion. good ol panaka

[sarahtasher]

Swtor is full of non-villain imperials.

Maybe indulge in a Franchise before making silly threads.

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Oh how wrong you are. Star Wars is very much full of Grey areas.

Lana is best girl.

No, they are not ''full'' of good Imperials. They have an handful of people doing their jobs and a bunch of raving lunatics.

Captain Phasma is a head-banging case. In her background novel, she prove repeatedly that she cares only about her survival (she kills first her family, then her tribe) and yet she is chosen for a job whose only requirement is LOYALTY. In a setting where the Imperials 2.0 are so paranoid about loyalty that they train stormtroopers from birth, they pick for head commissar the girl with the most dubious loyalty around....general Hux known this perfectly, since he asked her to murder her previous mentor, Hux's father.

[Super Kami Dende]

He basically allowed slavery on the moon where he had a mansion. good ol panaka

I was unaware Miners working for a Wage were Slaves. Considering even the Organas of Alderaan were upset when he was killed kind of shows he was "good ol' Panaka"

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No, they are not ''full'' of good Imperials. They have an handful of people doing their jobs and a bunch of raving lunatics.

Captain Phasma is a head-banging case. In her background novel, she prove repeatedly that she cares only about her survival (she kills first her family, then her tribe) and yet she is chosen for a job whose only requirement is LOYALTY. In a setting where the Imperials 2.0 are so paranoid about loyalty that they train stormtroopers from birth, they pick for head commissar the girl with the most dubious loyalty around....general Hux known this perfectly, since he asked her to murder her previous mentor, Hux's father.

The First Order =/= Imperials. The First Order were even extremists compared to the Imperials.

[Gamdwelf]

I was unaware Miners working for a Wage were Slaves. Considering even the Organas of Alderaan were upset when he was killed kind of shows he was "good ol' Panaka"

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The First Order =/= Imperials. The First Order were even extremists compared to the Imperials.

you were comparing the fake sith empire but the first order, the direct decendant of the empire is not imperials are you kidding me?

[Tyrathius]

No, they are not ''full'' of good Imperials. They have an handful of people doing their jobs and a bunch of raving lunatics.

Captain Phasma is a head-banging case. In her background novel, she prove repeatedly that she cares only about her survival (she kills first her family, then her tribe) and yet she is chosen for a job whose only requirement is LOYALTY. In a setting where the Imperials 2.0 are so paranoid about loyalty that they train stormtroopers from birth, they pick for head commissar the girl with the most dubious loyalty around....general Hux known this perfectly, since he asked her to murder her previous mentor, Hux's father.

IMO, Phasma is a pretty clear case of the character being introduced before the details of her personality and backstory were solidified (or possibly their original plans were retconned). As a result, they had to work backwards, creating her character around her actions rather than vice versa.

Logically, it would make sense for them to put someone extremely loyal in the position she has. But Phasma debuted in TFA, and in that movie she betrayed the First Order to save her skin, costing them their greatest superweapon, total victory over the Resistance, and probably millions of troops too. Any attempt at making loyalty part of her character after that is going to ring hollow. So instead they basically embraced it and made her a self-serving psychopath who only cares about herself, which explains her actions in the movie perfectly, but as you said doesn't necessarily fit with the job she's been given in-universe.

[Keyblader]

The First Order =/= Imperials. The First Order were even extremists compared to the Imperials.

I tend to agree with this, with the empire it did seem to be more about order, and essentially "bending the knee." The first order does seem more sporadic in their actions, not as calm and calculated. Although they both ruled with "do what you're told or your planet goes bye bye" haha.

[Mormolyce]

Considering they were about to add Revan to Clone Wars before it finished and that in Rebels the Mandalorian wars were mentioned. The Old Republic isn't completely out of the way of being canon.

In games the only part that's canon is the story, and even then only in broad strokes.

And individual elements of them are separable, like how Kyle Katarn became EU canon but a lot of elements of the game did not.

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You say that, and yet one of the leaders of the Force Awakens was a reformed imperial

:thinking:

Also the entire redemption arc of Darth Vader. If the morality there was clear we all would have cheered when Darth Vader died instead of mourning him.

Star Wars has never been completely black and white in terms of morality.

I'm talking classic Star Wars here, and also I wouldn't say that someone turning from an evil side to a good side is an example of grey morality. The sides are what is black and white.

[Super Kami Dende]

In games the only part that's canon is the story, and even then only in broad strokes.

And individual elements of them are separable, like how Kyle Katarn became EU canon but a lot of elements of the game did not.

It's kind of unfortunate to be honest. I hear complaints about there not being enough "Strong" female Characters in Star Wars but the Old Republic Era has some of the most amazing Female Characters written in the Star Wars Mythos.

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you were comparing the fake sith empire but the first order, the direct decendant of the empire is not imperials are you kidding me?

Because 1 was an Empire copying an Empire and one was a splinter group of extremists.

[Mormolyce]

It's kind of unfortunate to be honest. I hear complaints about there not being enough "Strong" female Characters in Star Wars but the Old Republic Era has some of the most amazing Female Characters written in the Star Wars Mythos.

Fingers crossed someone in Rebels mentions Bastila at some point :P

[Nadiru]

It's harder to make Imperials who aren't villains for normies because the Yuuzhan Vong are way too out of left field for the consumer of Star Wars media.

[Super Kami Dende]

Fingers crossed someone in Rebels mentions Bastila at some point :P

Oh god yes, even Brianna would be amazing. or making Meetra Canon.

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I tend to agree with this, with the empire it did seem to be more about order, and essentially "bending the knee." The first order does seem more sporadic in their actions, not as calm and calculated. Although they both ruled with "do what you're told or your planet goes bye bye" haha.

Yeah pretty much. The way I've put it to people is your ability to sympathise with Imperial characters. Be it Anakins fucked up descent after he was shown to be such a valorous hero during the Clone Wars series. Ventress was even full hardcore imperial at one point and you still kind of felt undecided on her.

Whereas none of the First Order characters have any redeeming characters and literally just scream out "Hate us, hate us" I think my biggest gripe with Force Awakens was the Evil "big bad" guy didn't seem like this intense Sith Puppeteer ruling a Galaxy just some dumb as shit extremists that couldn't let the Empire go. Palpatine was the perfect character to show that he was so evil he could corrupt the living embodiment of the Force.

[Mormolyce]

Oh god yes, even Brianna would be amazing. or making Meetra Canon.

A nod to Kreia would be great as well, one of Bioware's best characters of all time IMO.