Scam a Scammer

[A dot Ham]

So I'm trying to tell my cell phone. But I am getting a TON of people trying to scam me via PayPal.

So here is how the scam works.

Whether the phone is listed on facebook, ebay, or craiglist, the process is the same.

Arrangements are made for payment and buyer initiates a transfer via PayPal, usually that money is put on hold for one reason or another. Delayed payment for shipment to arrive, or the "buyer" puts in some case that immediately holds up the transfer of funds. Recently I attempted to nip this in the bud by requiring immediate payment through ebay. Which means there is no delay. I got confirmation of payment and immediately initiated a transfer to my bank. Knowing full well how these scams work I was going to use the money to go get a new phone, and film my old phone being packaged by usps, as additional proof.

For those that actually get scammed, the money never goes through, but the seller is conned into shipping the product anyway. What this is, is theft of a phone (not money). Typically the name and address of the person being shipped the product, won't match the person making payment (another red flag).

Is there anyway to turn this around on the scammer? There is part of me that feels PayPal should just not return the money. You play games YOU get screwed right? Fair is fair right? But in essence then I'm just stealing from him/her and them being a criminal doesn't make me right. So how can we do something to said scammer so that REAL justice is served? A complaint via ebay or paypal is not justice.

[Allybeboba]

eBay and paypal should have clauses for this. What they are doing is in effect mail fraud. It is a felony. You have all their information.

[callipygoustp]

Payment via PayPal has to clear before I will send anything, period. Anyone starts messing around with that basic process, deal is over, I walk away, period.

[Yunru]

I dont take paypal anymore for payment. To high risk and un-safe for seller/buyer.
Skrill is safer for seller period. (selling on other sites)

[breadisfunny]

wouldn't that be illegal as well? that would be like "oh hey we just go robbed by these guys. instead of going to the police let's go and steal some of their stuff as payment."

[Lochton]

Not sure. I deal a lot through PayPal for digital artwork and I tell my customers in the invoice that I will not send anything until the payment is sent and clears PayPal (not in pending status).

Basically this. Nothing to be shipped until payment has been cleared, same with my workplace.

[Mister Cheese]

Pretty sure that's fraud regardless of intent.

[Antiganon]

Your fraud isn't any less fraudulent just because they committed fraud. Don't commit fraud.

That said, they are committing fraud by doing this. Turn them into the police. You have their info, and you have proof of what they tried to do. This case would be a slam dunk, the conviction is basically gift wrapped for the police/DA.

[LawnmowersUnited]

I once payed for something that never came and received a full refund, took about 2 months though.

[Rennadrel]

Raise the price, scammers are often looking for a good deal so they can turn and flip it for a profit.

[cuafpr]

yeah i dont ship till payment is cleared, and then with a tracking number so they can't say i never shipped it. The few times i've issues paypal/ebay have always refunded me. Also if its larger amounts of money don't ship it less its to a verified address.

[A dot Ham]

yeah i dont ship till payment is cleared, and then with a tracking number so they can't say i never shipped it. The few times i've issues paypal/ebay have always refunded me. Also if its larger amounts of money don't ship it less its to a verified address.

What do you mean by verify the address?

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Raise the price, scammers are often looking for a good deal so they can turn and flip it for a profit.

That's the problem with this scam though, the price is irrelevant as they don't actually intend on paying. The purpose is to steal the seller's phone. It would be like paying in person with counterfeit money. The seller is out the product and the money.

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wouldn't that be illegal as well? that would be like "oh hey we just go robbed by these guys. instead of going to the police let's go and steal some of their stuff as payment."

I recognized that in my post. I'm not really looking to steal from them (though like I said there is a part of me that wants to flip the script) in the end I just want them to get justice. I wish glitter bombs weren't so expensive. Or like an ink bomb... like banks have for robberies. Open a box suspecting a phone... and BLAM!

[Pyro1990]

What do you mean by verify the address?

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That's the problem with this scam though, the price is irrelevant as they don't actually intend on paying. The purpose is to steal the seller's phone. It would be like paying in person with counterfeit money. The seller is out the product and the money.

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I recognized that in my post. I'm not really looking to steal from them (though like I said there is a part of me that wants to flip the script) in the end I just want them to get justice. I wish glitter bombs weren't so expensive. Or like an ink bomb... like banks have for robberies. Open a box suspecting a phone... and BLAM!

I think you can have the post office verify the address to make sure it is real and in use. So you dont mail stuff into the void of a nonexistent address.

[cuafpr]

What do you mean by verify the address?

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Paypal or ebay ... has the option to only ship to verified addresses meaning paypal or ebay has verified that the address on file the payment method is correct and matches the users bank information. Helps prevent stolen cards being used to ship items to another address

[A dot Ham]

Paypal or ebay ... has the option to only ship to verified addresses meaning paypal or ebay has verified that the address on file the payment method is correct and matches the users bank information. Helps prevent stolen cards being used to ship items to another address

I typically go through ebay shipping anyway... as it ends up being the cheapest and least hassle.

I'll check into it make sure this is in place. TY

[breadisfunny]

What do you mean by verify the address?

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That's the problem with this scam though, the price is irrelevant as they don't actually intend on paying. The purpose is to steal the seller's phone. It would be like paying in person with counterfeit money. The seller is out the product and the money.

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I recognized that in my post. I'm not really looking to steal from them (though like I said there is a part of me that wants to flip the script) in the end I just want them to get justice. I wish glitter bombs weren't so expensive. Or like an ink bomb... like banks have for robberies. Open a box suspecting a phone... and BLAM!

so why not just notify the police that this seller is engaging in mail fraud?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I think you can have the post office verify the address to make sure it is real and in use. So you dont mail stuff into the void of a nonexistent address.

You know those "work from home on the internet and earn thousands!" spam emails? Being a stolen goods mule by providing a legitimate shipping address for criminals is one of those "jobs".

[A dot Ham]

so why not just notify the police that this seller is engaging in mail fraud?

Well first a crime has to be committed. Not a potential crime.

I would essentially have to have my phone actually stolen before the police will actually file a report.

Second, apparently people who engage in this type of activity often use stolen PayPal accounts, and since they don't ever actually follow through with the transaction, the person whose account has been stolen is unaffected, sometimes completely unaware.

Third, the name listed on the ship to address is most assuredly not the actual culprit. They may have a friend/family member who is completely unaware of the scam, receive the item, at the very least that person has deniability.

TL;DR I actually very little information on the person(s) who is trying to steal my phone.

[Deleted]

Still should raise the price