Disc for the next exp.

[Popokolara]

No just POM ( thou I admit I have never been a fan of Halo, went cascade when it was still an option for both the range and not being a risk to agro mobs..) Thou allow me to clarify, I am speaking of POM as it was back during 5.xx, where the first target healed an additional 60% , only had 4 total charges and casting a new POM would cancel any existing one.. Could allow the class to go back to playing the game instead of playing the boss addon timers..

Could you expand your theory about how PoM would alter disc gameplay so much that it will not have to "endure the drudgery of looking at the abilities of bosses, because Hah! Who does that? like what do we have raid leaders for? To shout Fire! Fire! Big Fire!"

[Yunzi]

Because something's always been bad isn't a good reason to do keep on doing something. It's the same silly logic that Ion uses for justifying his moronic use of RNG for everything ("Well, the games I played always had lots of RNG, so...)"

It's not moronic. Cynical, yes, destructive, sure, but not moronic.

Gambling has taken over gaming. The lure of gambling is not hitting the jackpot, but providing highs and lows to the game experience, providing contrast for players who experience both the world and their own lives as having flatlined. Gambling is an artificial psychological life. It's a way to extend how players want to experience THEIR world, as having "life", versus what they think of the real world, as being undead. It's the same basic reason for the creation of robots. To extend "life" beyond that of a dying species.

One could argue that we shouldn't do any of this, that we shouldn't build a framework for people who have given up on humanity, that we shouldn't abandon Humanism in favor of Post-humanism. One could argue that this framework allows us to LET humanity die, and that a species building it's own successors is suicidal rather than responsible.

[Kilee25]

I do not like how gaming is evolving, in terms of the gambling mindset. The industry seems very different from when I fell in love with it as a kid. There are still gems and great games out there, but the idle "pay to win" slot machine type games seem to be encroaching into every part of the industry, and WoW seems full of it, only barely avoiding some of the uglier parts of it.

As for humans building their replacements via robots and artificial intelligence, as someone who is in this field of study, we are so far off from this that it's really not even worth debating right now. I would personally like to see some sort of garden robot machinery for the family home, that could help and assist in the growing and maintaining of vegetables and fruit. I feel that if we could build something to help people learn to grow their own food again, instead of relying on the fast food service industry more and more, it would go a long way towards improving health and well-being, as well as surely saving people a lot of money as well. But the far flung futuristic world of Ghost in the Machine is hundreds of years away, and I'm personally betting on climate change being a more important factor by that point than whether or not the machines are going to replace humanity. I believe that building robots to do our work for us will be a positive change. Perhaps if we are not so laden with the drudgery of our everyday working lives, we will have more time to focus on other problems and goals and hopes and dreams instead.

[MendUS]

I feel that if we could build something to help people learn to grow their own food again, instead of relying on the fast food service industry more and more, it would go a long way towards improving health and well-being, as well as surely saving people a lot of money as well.

Yes, that would be called getting off your fat lazy ass to go get some produce from the grocery store. Growing food at home doesn't help lazy people be less lazy.

[Yunzi]

But the far flung futuristic world of Ghost in the Machine is hundreds of years away, and I'm personally betting on climate change being a more important factor by that point than whether or not the machines are going to replace humanity.

The two things are intimately connected. The greater the degradation of the traditional world, the greater the impetus to replace that world with the virtual. The more the traditional world is replaced, the greater it's neglect, which fuels the logic of it's replacement. So while Kafka looked outside his window and saw a bleak gray nothing and Tolkien delved deeply into a complete virtual world which mirrors our own, monkish nerd wizards built a global system of computerization to replace the corrupt system of "might makes right". Noone was there to object, because noone was effectively outside the dying world. So now sex robots, augmented reality, drone killers, all-encompassing surveillance and social media and the religion of high technology to save us from ourselves is the brave new world. And whatever the fears of our ancestors, from the loss of the individual to corporate domination to nuclear annihilation, they had it good, because none of those problems have been solved but instead we've added a slew of additional problems. Problems aren't like math equations - they don't cancel each other out.

What happens to the individual under great strain happens to societies as well. So the decimation of Germany after World War I led to the rise of power of the Nazi party. The accumulation of modern problems has led to the rise of fascism in modern Europe, and Donald Trump in the US. And we continue to not solve any of these problems, but determinedly keep adding more. The result of this won't be good. And as bad as climate destruction already is and will likely progressively be, it's our collective inability to solve any of the key problems of the world that will most likely be the FIRST thing that kills us.

[Ynna]

This thread took a weird turn.

[Kilee25]

I agree Ynna....

Yunzi, your POV reminds me somewhat of that UNABOMBER show that came on tv recently. I'm surprised you're even on a wow forum or the internet with that sort of view...

It's not that I don't understand it, but when was the last time you did something like traditional farming in real life?

I think the era that worked best for humans might've been my grandparent's generation. I look at them and it seems like they kind of have life figured out. They still have a garden, and try to live off the land as much as they can. I get the impression talking to them that life was simpler back when they were growing up, but they have lived a long life and seem to be very content and satisfied with the life that they have led. Although perhaps all old people feel that way, who knows.

I agree that it seems like we are going through some growing pains with technology encroaching on our every day lives. In my life time, the internet and cell phones and tablets seems to be the driving force behind changing the way people grow up and interact with each other. With cell phones and everyone being connected and having the internet all the time, it's affected the way people communicate, spend their past time, and how education works as well. Knowledge is readily available, and I think this will create a weird sort of "arms race" with general education, because anyone can go online and teach themselves skills that used to require college to learn. I think universities and schools will need to adapt and change to this new dynamic, and eventually work places will need to change as well, to adapt to the people who grew up this way entering the work force. This has already happened somewhat with the "millenial" generation, but I think that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

To bring it back to this thread, I think that the changes to Discipline, and the game in general, this expansion are in part a reaction to the sort of power and complexity creep that's been happening with other online arena games such as DoTA, LOL, etc... I think the abilities of the average gamer have collectively gotten stronger, and Blizzard mostly has been trying to step up the classes and offer a greater challenge and diversity to the mix. In part I think it is also why people didn't like the old disc because it messed with everyone else's ability to enjoy their classes - this is something that I understand, only I wish that they could have found a way to keep the old disc play style and still allow other healers to enjoy the game too.

In any case, I think that as time goes on, we may see even see the pendulum swing the other way as younger generations come behind us. The next generations are growing up more with iPads and tablets and cell phones, rather than computers, so we may see a decline in the use of traditional gaming systems. I wonder if WoW will try to adapt to capture that market, once they get old enough to work and spend money. It would be interesting to see what would happen to WoW if many aspects of the game were to be ported over to a tablet format. Most certainly many of the more complex elements might get "dumbed down" again. Whenever that day comes, perhaps we might see the "bubble healer" come back as a way for players to "tap on nameplates quickly with one finger." Lol, that would be interesting indeed.

[Yunzi]

I agree Ynna....

Yunzi, your POV reminds me somewhat of that UNABOMBER show that came on tv recently. I'm surprised you're even on a wow forum or the internet with that sort of view...

It's not that I don't understand it, but when was the last time you did something like traditional farming in real life?

Modern anxiety is not a problem that additional exposure to "nature" solves. Nature is a trap, a distraction, away from actually solving the problems, in the same sense that people "gaze across the ocean". Humans have attained such power in the world that only humans can solve those problems.

Pharmaceuticals, either literal or figurative, are not the remedy for profound existential problems. No more so than an ostrich burying it's head in the sand prevents it's death.

What is worse - the ostrich or the problem the ostrich is hiding from?

As far as unabombers go, it's a red herring. The idea being that not only does the ostrich have the advantage of not witnessing his approaching death, but he doesn't commit atrocities fueled by his anxieties either. See, it's perfect! Perfect except for the death part, and that the ostrich's behavior is ITSELF an atrocity.

When responsibility for the death actually occurs, what degree of guilt should the ostrich be assigned? And given that the deaths will be of millions or billions of people, this makes the ostrich partly responsible for mass murder. Given that the ostrich is actively participating in mass murder, how should he be treated at the present time?

I think the era that worked best for humans might've been my grandparent's generation. I look at them and it seems like they kind of have life figured out. They still have a garden, and try to live off the land as much as they can. I get the impression talking to them that life was simpler back when they were growing up, but they have lived a long life and seem to be very content and satisfied with the life that they have led. Although perhaps all old people feel that way, who knows.

Have you seen Season 3 Episode 7 of Rick and Morty? If so, what do you think of Simple Rick?

[Kilee25]

My TLDR version of what you just said is that everyone on the planet is engaging in mass escapism through various means - drugs, pills, video games, television - and this act is essentially going to doom us.

I agree somewhat on the notion that escapism is bad. But I think it's also important for you to define what the opposite of escapism is. Or in other words, propose a solution. It's not enough to just doomsay - you need to go a step further and try to map out a way of living that will help solve the problem instead of add to it. Many groups of people in the world have tried to do this - I would say that most religions have taken a decent stab at it. The message is generally universal - live a good, balanced life. Add positively to society. Help your fellow man. Avoid temptation, sin, and (yes) escapism. If everyone did some version of this, the world might be a better place and perhaps we could avoid or postpone the doom.

Finally... I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation. I understand what you are saying. I "think" that I agree with you on some points. But this isn't the time or place to discuss this kind of topic.

The only possible way that I can correlate any of this to WoW is that I think the nature of MMOs in general is a form of mass escapism. Withdrawing into the World of Warcraft is the metaphorical equivalent of your ostrich sticking its head in the sand. I get it. No seriously, I get it. I just don't see what any of this has to do with Discipline priests specifically.

[Deleted]

HELLO?? ANY MODS HERE??? this shit thing is getting out of control! delete these retarded threads and let people go talk in other off-topic forums about their world problems.

[Deleted]

Looks good

[Nurasu]

Sounds like it's staying the way it is for BfA based on all the class interviews, thank god. Maybe more people will try it and get better with it without the Artifact and Legendary systems from Legion.

[Dsc]

Ignore my name, changed it in TBC to ease pugging, but I toyed with IDS and then reflective shield long before disc was cool.

The current incarnation could be ok, we just don't have crap for direct heals ( WTB a LONG CD party based POH, with Aegis perhaps?
Archangel I liked, but it was restrictive.


My biggest beef isn't the setup part. I get it, get atonements out pre damage /blow CDs.

My beef is the atonements don't last long enough and the GCD on plea coupled with radiance having a CD is too long.


It feels like I'm chasing a dragon that disappears when I am close.

HLK disc had the same feel, except you made it to payoff. You got the shields off while dodging crap, you saved 20 people from infest, and got your mana back.

right now... we can't get the haste up enough to do that and if we could would mana even support it?

It feels unrewarding.

I'm nop longer pushing top world ...??? 3rd or 4tths, and server firsts. I'm poking at mythic TOS stuff, and I'm not enjoying it, in fact it feels tedious with little reward.

I'm not asking for the op boring days of sheild spam or POH unlimited with aegis.

just give me a little payoff or make it so I CAN MAX it... give me .08 sec GCD and a 30 sec atonement time. something.

[Raone]

I hate playing my resto druid but I don't think they should change it just because I dislike it.

Disc is in a really good place right now, its finally a good healer that doesn't eclipse Holy.

The spec is extremely rewarding if played well (as shown by joshpriest)

[Nurasu]

give me .08 sec GCD and a 30 sec atonement time. something.

I thank god every day that the people on these forums aren't designers.

[Dsc]

I hate playing my resto druid but I don't think they should change it just because I dislike it.

Disc is in a really good place right now, its finally a good healer that doesn't eclipse Holy.

The spec is extremely rewarding if played well (as shown by joshpriest)

]Josh preist is a bad example. the pople around him are playing at a level that most "mythic" raiders aren't close to.

The attonment time is a problem. Haste on geatr and GCD limitations are a problem. shield a tank, maybe two in downtime, tag a few people with plea who need it, try to set up ... and omfg atonements are falling off, shield? oh yeah on CD reapply that thing...

the entire playstyle although cool in concept is timed like shit and doesn't have the gear in game to make it enjoyable or a realization.

I feel like a heroin addict chasing a dragon.

[Popokolara]

]Josh preist is a bad example. the pople around him are playing at a level that most "mythic" raiders aren't close to.

The attonment time is a problem. Haste on geatr and GCD limitations are a problem. shield a tank, maybe two in downtime, tag a few people with plea who need it, try to set up ... and omfg atonements are falling off, shield? oh yeah on CD reapply that thing...

the entire playstyle although cool in concept is timed like shit and doesn't have the gear in game to make it enjoyable or a realization.

I feel like a heroin addict chasing a dragon.

How do your co raiders affect atonement mechanics? Especially if you are talking outside the competitive scene where healers dont coordinate that much and so on.

[Atharaxie]

How do your co raiders affect atonement mechanics? Especially if you are talking outside the competitive scene where healers dont coordinate that much and so on.

Isn't that a problem with disc ?

1) Disc raises 7 ato + 2 PWR for 17 ato, uses velen
2) Big Hit from boss
3) Other healer uses a big coolown and Disc uses Light'sWrath or Evang+SF/Owl

Case 1 : Light's wrath was used, Disc snipes the healing, other healer feels bad. his CD is wasted
Case 2 : SF/Owl was used, other Healer snipes the healing, Disc feels bad, radiance+velen+evang+SF/Owl wasted.

In my opinion, Disc need healers coordination or it's the start of a snipe war. Snipe war are always stupid but other healer don't only rely on Healing Bomb as much as Disc to do their job. Disc has more tools to win this war but got much more to loose if he doesn't win.

My point is Disc is more affected by the lack of coordination between healers often found at low level of content.

[Popokolara]

Isn't that a problem with disc ?

1) Disc raises 7 ato + 2 PWR for 17 ato, uses velen
2) Big Hit from boss
3) Other healer uses a big coolown and Disc uses Light'sWrath or Evang+SF/Owl

Case 1 : Light's wrath was used, Disc snipes the healing, other healer feels bad. his CD is wasted
Case 2 : SF/Owl was used, other Healer snipes the healing, Disc feels bad, radiance+velen+evang+SF/Owl wasted.

In my opinion, Disc need healers coordination or it's the start of a snipe war. Snipe war are always stupid but other healer don't only rely on Healing Bomb as much as Disc to do their job. Disc has more tools to win this war but got much more to loose if he doesn't win.

My point is Disc is more affected by the lack of coordination between healers often found at low level of content.

Yeah but this does not mean design is bad. It means the players are bad, make self destructive choices and will get punished for it. A good disc will still be an asset to the raid, and it will still be the better player that is the better asset from any class in such an enviroment. So its only a problem in the sense of "i cant parse in my "mythic" raiding guild without commiting to learning it" In which case you will snipe them. Wait what about using less healers because the true problem is massive overhealing?

You cant convince your raid team to not massively overheal? Ok then go paint a wall red and then complain its too red.

Disc's sin is that he will be punished with overhealing a bit more than the other specs, thanks to the ToS update a lot less than in the past mind you, and mostly if you dont know how to control your casts. But all healing teams will suffer if Tranq+Divine+ancestral guidance into totem at the same time and so on. So its really not a disc specific problem. Its basic healing mechanisms and logic.

This has been discussed a million times and since EN progression too, but you know the saying: better to lose an eye than get a bad name.

[Supliftz]

mmo-c man

>blizzard just removed something that increases atonement duration by 3 seconds

>someone asks for 30 seconds atonements

>tfw