Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[Catalystics]

First of all +1 awesome stuff u doing!
Then second: Is it possible to not use leaderboards, instead use the addon only to keep track of m+ done?
Im so sick of the leaderboards, running multiple + 10s after sunday on silvermoon eu will net me in no score at all!
So i hope this can/could be updated, i also made a post on forums to make leaderboards go to go over 100. But since its blizz it may never happen or maybe in 2or 3 expansions (offline in blizzard app says hi)
ty for the great work so far !


Phexen

(the artist foremerly known as catalystics/ishanna/sherazade)

[Deleted]

You the kind of person who will apply to an +15 and not use flask/pots or mass aoe on bursting then complain after dying and leave?
Getting people with high scores eliminates most those concerns.

You're right, a lot of people don't make any effort, even 930+.
I lost HOURS because of these people.
If they would invest the right amount of effort into a given key, there would be no need of addons like this one.
But it's a right thing.
Every person who can put enough efforts to run a +15 CAN put effort to run alls Mythic Plus in +10 first, to start build their score.

[HuxNeva]

Is it possible to not use leaderboards, instead use the addon only to keep track of m+ done?

This would mean having to trust the client, which in terms of preventing abuse is orders of magnitude harder than trusting Blizzard fool-proofed their server. On the less populated realms, top 100 is more than sufficient as even +10's at the end of the week get recorded. On larger realms there is a problem. Hoping the group has a smaller realm team member is then the only option on thuesdays.

[Lahis]

First of all +1 awesome stuff u doing!
Then second: Is it possible to not use leaderboards, instead use the addon only to keep track of m+ done?
Im so sick of the leaderboards, running multiple + 10s after sunday on silvermoon eu will net me in no score at all!
So i hope this can/could be updated, i also made a post on forums to make leaderboards go to go over 100. But since its blizz it may never happen or maybe in 2or 3 expansions (offline in blizzard app says hi)
ty for the great work so far !


Phexen

(the artist foremerly known as catalystics/ishanna/sherazade)

Simply put: no.

The weekly top 100 leaderboards are the only data Blizzard makes available on M+ runs.

Better run all the instances on Wednesday if you wanna get high score.

[klaps_05]

The only thing im wondering about is why they decided to "keep" only whats on the leaderboard? Yes, its quite a lot of data - each character at 110 * each dungeon * each affix combination * each key level, but we already have systems that big in the game.

If they would simply record ALL data for m+, this will lift a lot of the problems and will allow people to climb faster, just like a pvp ladder. Actually they should make a pve ladder for m+ that is not the leaderboard. Something with actual points and rankings.

[Deleted]

No actually he proved exactly what i was saying. You still get points for a depleted key even after spending hours and hours in the instance after the timer expired.

Someone who spend 2+ hours in +18 Seat deserve every point they can get (which in these examples isn't anywhere near of 18 in time). It also prove they are type of players who are willing to stick with the group in new instance and learn it.

[Caprix]

They definitely have some problems registering players runs. It's, like 80% of my runs are missing from both of these websites, and i'm 100% sure that i'm not the only one with this issue. But yeah, bad players amirite?

Well that's the real problem with this kind of systems for me. I only do the occasionnal 10-15 key, not even each week, but most of them simply don't show up on wowprogress or raider.io. Did a +11 yesterday? Nope, not there. Did a +11/+12 last week? Nope, not there.

Even if it's easy difficulty i can understand people don't want to carry very bad players (yes some people can't do a +10 with 930+ ilvl without getting carried), but these systems plain don't work for that (it looks like it does for high keys?).

[Deleted]

Different people post in here and I'd sort us all into the following categories.

Angry entitled monkeys who found an addon to blame for being declined in m+ pugs. Not their attitude, lacking skills or focus. Read this, angry monkeys:

Somehow people have this fantasy that before this add-on they could apply to +15 or higher keys, have the group leader not screen any of the applicants, and yet somehow be successful.

and this:

Instead of getting declined after 30s after the group leader checks your wowprogress, you now get declined within 5s.
But of course bad players think its the addon's fault.

Angry entitled monkeys who found an addon to blame for being declined in m+ pugs EVENTHO they "earned it" by being godly raiders but cba to put similar effort into a 20-35min m+ run once a week (I'm surprised how many posted this here). Read this, angry l33t forum-raiders:

i ve done top 150 9/9 M, and i can say that soem 21-22 dungeons are harder mechanicly. Raid is harder not because of mechanics but because of coordination.

and this:

Ya I dont understand people that think high m+ is easier then raiding you get clipped by anything or miss time a stun and someones dead at that level and there they each have things that are herder and easier one is definitely not out and out harder or easier by any means.

Angry people who try to play the game as best as they can at their chosen and comfortable level, who get sh*t from the two above mentioned monkey groups. I am looking forward to Blizzard keeping m+ as an addition for the likes of me - people who can't devote the time for raiding and at the same time don't like their very limited time wasted by others. Should m+ remain a competitive part of WoW for longer, communities will build around it (just like around RP, PvP, raiding) and we will finally find guilds and teams to make our game-experience better. Until then people WILL complain about monkeys and find ways to avoid them as best as possible. Be it external websites like wowprogress, this addon, MPH addon, personal blacklists, personal whitelists (btag friends), etc.
I'm surprised forum-raiders complain about this, as it's the very core of competitive raiding - getting rid of people who don't contribute at the same level as the rest of the team ASAP! I'm also surprised how many "raiders" can't seem to get their guilds to help them with their "once a week m+10" - sounds like maybe the poster of such a message is the issue by being a burden or an anti-social pri*k (raid-communities have plenty of those in cutting-edge groups, that's why the term "raiding" has a hard time mixing with the term "social" in guilds).

The common emotion is "angry" and common approach is "entitled". We all feel entitled to something and are angry when we don't get what we feel entitled to. The difference between the angry monkeys and the last sub-group is the key tho: we want to contribute and expect others to contribute at a similar level as we do to achieve a goal we think we agreed upon - spend as little time as possible in the dungeon we are fighting in. The two other groups expect others to contribute FOR them. The tank rotates the boss wrong, the healer doesn't heal them through mechanics enough, other dps don't interrupt/stunlock (when they themselves cba), etc. etc.

Last night I was invited to tank a semi-pug - the healer invited a 3-man-dps-pre-made and me to tank. The most issues raised: worst dps, "heroic raider" (decked in tier, including lfr) who is obviously just "knocking out the m+10 once per week" when you check his wowprogress. The healer told me the biggest m+ pug wisdom I never realized before: Don't talk to them! They are pre-made and act like hyenas!

For the 3rd group of people I mentioned above, everyone is welcome to jump on board. Learn the dungeons, show ANY reasonable score/artifact level/experience relevant to the difficulty we are about to face and perform to your best in a dungeon and we will NOT complain. This is my experience from the 350odd m+ dungeons I have run, mostly with pugs in the last months.
The same number of runs also gave me the experience that the monkeys will complain, whine and either become aggressive and/or leave as the last resort of their aggression. This is another major difference between the groups posting in this thread.

As a sidenote - I have put my wowprogress info into my signature knowing there will be trolls personally attacking me for the info there. Feel free - I don't mind, if you think your only argument is a personal attack on the poster, I am certainly not going to assign any worth to your opinion.

Someone who spend 2+ hours in +18 Seat deserve every point they can get (which in these examples isn't anywhere near of 18 in time). It also prove they are type of players who are willing to stick with the group in new instance and learn it.

Hell yes!

Even if it's easy difficulty i can understand people don't want to carry very bad players (yes some people can't do a +10 with 930+ ilvl without getting carried), but these systems plain don't work for that (it looks like it does for high keys?).

People (not monkeys) usually don't mind carrying 1 bad player/alt/undergeared person even around m+10-12 in PUGs. Below M+9 sometimes even 2 such people are ok. Going higher with PUGs without any evaluation of the team-members you will see in this thread IS a PITA and doomed to fail. When you are not naming your group "selling boosts" you are not looking forward to do just that.

[Myta]

It's amusing how people complain that Blizzard made the game less social, than march behind one of the most anti-social addons ever created in WoW. It further cements players never having to talk to another human in WoW again.

It enables what players truly want more than anything in, to have an easier time, no wipes no pesky things such as 'challenge', why else would the add-on reward cheap keys over harder content.

Mark my words, this addon is probably the most toxic thing ever conceived of in the game since Gearscore, and takes what was a finding other humans to do dungeons and turns it into something scummy and distasteful because deep down people despise the MM in MMO.

[Deleted]

It's amusing how people complain that Blizzard made the game less social, than march behind one of the most anti-social addons ever created in WoW. It further cements players never having to talk to another human in WoW again.

Funny how much emotion you put into your note but no real statistics, reasoning nor examples. My own personal experience says that when I find the pugs I want to apply to (via MPH and this addon) and /w the leader, chances to be invited increase by at least 200% over the applications I don't /w anything. Also the teams who run silently (even smoothly, but silently) are not the ones you will usually find friends for later in.

[Lahis]

Funny how much emotion you put into your note but no real statistics, reasoning nor examples. My own personal experience says that when I find the pugs I want to apply to (via MPH and this addon) and /w the leader, chances to be invited increase by at least 200% over the applications I don't /w anything. Also the teams who run silently (even smoothly, but silently) are not the ones you will usually find friends for later in.

What to even whisper to a PUG leader? They can see teh mediocre 940 ilvl on default UI and the shit M+ score via the AddOn. What will a "Hello" help there?

[Mlz]

It's amusing how people complain that Blizzard made the game less social, than march behind one of the most anti-social addons ever created in WoW. It further cements players never having to talk to another human in WoW again.

It enables what players truly want more than anything in, to have an easier time, no wipes no pesky things such as 'challenge', why else would the add-on reward cheap keys over harder content.

Mark my words, this addon is probably the most toxic thing ever conceived of in the game since Gearscore, and takes what was a finding other humans to do dungeons and turns it into something scummy and distasteful because deep down people despise the MM in MMO.

You didn't read a single post in this thread after the announcement of the add-on, did you? Your concerns have been addressed several times. But just to make it clear once again - carrying 1 clueless monkey who has no idea what they are doing is NOT a challenge. Challenge is when 5 players that are on an equal-ish level in terms of skill/knowledge, face the content that might wipe them, together. If you're killing a rare that requires coordination of 2 people and that is NOT soloable but also not a face-roll content (think pugging mythic raiding where you know tactics from a previous kill or two but still need top-notch execution in reality - you have the knowledge but there is still room for error), you get three options:
A) 2 clueless players trying to kill it;
B) 1 clueless and 1 knowledgeable player trying to kill it;
C) 2 knowledgeable people trying to kill it.

So, in your mind only option A and B are challenges? What if you grouped up with other people around similar skill of yours. Push your own key - specifically take people with very little or no score and add them and play together. People who have been pushing keys have done exactly this - they have found the MM in MMO and have formed communities around similarly skilled people. These groups are not static - you can achieve that at any point you want if you bother even a tiny bit: run un-desirable keys, run your own key, press O and ask people if they would like some help/would like to help you, and so on.

You know what's toxic? People who think they are entitled to everything as long as they pay the fee. You have done 2 M+ this season, none in the previous one but suddenly YOU are outraged that you are not able to participate in content that is not even probably meant for you and you had no interest in before? I give you a hint: maybe don't try joining a 10+ out of nowhere as a 910 dps (that has probably several sub-900 items equipped and could use anything that dropped from lower dungeons in the first place, even more so if they WF/TF) with absolutely no experience whatsoever and work your way up since it's a, you know, progression game in its sense?

[Seditian]

No actually he proved exactly what i was saying. You still get points for a depleted key even after spending hours and hours in the instance after the timer expired.

You're being dumb. Their 2-3 hour +18 keys net the same score as someone who does a +12 really quickly. If someone's looking to fill a group for a +20, they sure as hell aren't going to invite the person who ran all dungeons only at +12, but they sure as hell aren't inviting people who deplete all +18 keys by at least an hour either. Not only because both their scores are dreadfully low, but if they look at the website, they'll see the +18 depletion king/queen is even worse than they thought.

E: It's like applying to Method because you killed M Gul'dan today. It doesn't make any sense, sure you've completed it, but not nearly at the speed the guild would've wanted.

[Deleted]

What to even whisper to a PUG leader? They can see teh mediocre 940 ilvl on default UI and the shit M+ score via the AddOn. What will a "Hello" help there?

I don't know ... how about "I love your hairstyle that I googled over after looking up your wow-char and linking it with your FB page that is also linked with your LinkedIn account. Seeing also your Tinder profile I'd love to ... play together, you know ..."? I can't help you if you don't know how to approach people in ze internetz Trial and error are your friends I'm afraid

[Myta]

But just to make it clear once again - carrying 1 clueless monkey who has no idea what they are doing is NOT a challenge.

Since when do WoW players ever carry anyone, it's not enough someone is now asking for 940 to do 910 relevant content, they have to guarantee they will be carried to a guaranteed win without ever having to talk to a single person again in their WoW life.

And as someone who has played since vanilla, who did the the TBC keying process on multiple characters and actively did get undergeared but competent players into genuinely difficult dungeons.

What WoW players want now is LFR but with 930+ gear, to know victory is 100%, that things will go smoothly, their time will never be wasted, they will never have to teach anyone. And the community will continue to die little by little as it has for years.

And you will never see this, you will never understand how bad this is because you have not seen this continue to happen for 10+ years.

Blizzard adds a system that requires humans to talk to humans in an MMO, and players will demand changes to make sure they can turn it into as automated an experience as possible, with as little abrasion, effort, or thinking as possible.

Someone who's been playing over 10 years know, that the abrasion pre-LFD, pre-LFR where you had to take the bad experiences to get the amazing experiences, now it will all be grey, soulless, and dull. Pandora's box has already been opened, it was only a matter of time before someone made this hellish addon. I'll remember fondly the brief months that Mythic+ was actually a new system worth something in WoW.

[Deleted]

Good addon, my own score is shit cause i don`t really grind high level plusses but this will help out if you want to push keys. Ppl who have no friends/guildies to run keys will probably bitch and moan about it but it doesn`t matter.

[mahesvara]

I find it funny how many people are whining that they'll get declined to a +10. Get over it. I'm 937 in my m+ set, almost 2.7k score and I get declined to stuff all the time.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

People wonder why this game is dying..

All anyone does in this game is segment and separate everyone down into groups of can and cannot. I know it is frustrating as hell to have someone fuck up a run. It has happened to me a ton over my long time in WoW. But damn that is kind of what video games are about. Trying, failing, trying, failing and repeating until you get it done. This addon is like downloading a trainer to a new video game you just bought and beating it in an hour. Wouldn't want to "waste your time" dying a few time on this brand new 60 dollar game you just bought right.

The solution to the "other side" of this is to just buy runs. Casuals will flock to these services. At first to get their 10 complete for the week. Then as they do it for a few weeks that score will eventually start to look good enough. Then guess what. You are grouping with them again. Cash money in the hands of those that really ruin this game with RL money transactions and little old you, the cry baby, still ending up grouping with the worse of the worse.

I bet every site on the internet that sales M+ ruins is honestly really behind this. I would have zero doubts.

[ItsTiddles]

Every time something is introduced: "THIS is why wow is dying! LOOK AT IT!"

People wonder why this game is dying..

All anyone does in this game is segment and separate everyone down into groups of can and cannot. I know it is frustrating as hell to have someone fuck up a run. It has happened to me a ton over my long time in WoW. But damn that is kind of what video games are about. Trying, failing, trying, failing and repeating until you get it done. This addon is like downloading a trainer to a new video game you just bought and beating it in an hour. Wouldn't want to "waste your time" dying a few time on this brand new 60 dollar game you just bought right.

I've had my share of fuck ups and messed up runs in m+ pugs over the expansion to the point where I don't feel like I have to deal with that anymore. I don't care to heal tanks who don't know how or when to use active mitigation. I don't care to heal dps who can't dodge the most obvious of mechanics. Why does it bother you that I want to pug a +15 and have the run go smoothly? Also...

I bet every site on the internet that sales M+ ruins is honestly really behind this. I would have zero doubts.

You might consider getting your paranoia checked out.

[Sliske]

Its crazy - the idea of this addon alone has got many terrible players to stop leeching in m+. I don't even have the addon installed, but judging by the comments here, all of the people whining and saying they won't do m+ anymore, won't. We now have a game less filled with people that abuse achievement generators to get into groups and leech.

Well done, addon creator.