So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[Titans]

yet, this iteration of ret paladin is the least ret of all iterations. sure, you can like it. like whatever you want. but I think the point most people are making is that this version of ret is so unlike every other version, that it feels like youre not playing the same spec.

I second this. My paladin has been my main for coming up on a decade, for me it's not as simple as 'just play something else' considering this is the first expansion where I have strongly disliked the rotation and playstyle. Especially considering many people started playing the spec for certain reasons (eg if you joined in mop you maybe liked the competitive talents, the way wings changed the rotation based on those talents, the many ranged attack options, the movement speed etc), and strongly disliked something like arms (colossus smash playstyle, no ranged abilities etc). The same reason people have picked ret are the same reasons why it seems counter intuitive to swap characters now considering how arbitrary many of the spec changes seem to be.

Like personally I think that it is much more likely that blizzard will change our inherently flawed spec than it is for me to swap mains and feel good about it.

[Whatever Dude]

Can we bring back Seals and make it cool somehow? I might be in the minority but I loved Seal of Command. Proccing that damage and having my character automatically do a lunging swing was super cool.

[Leefa]

Can we bring back Seals and make it cool somehow? I might be in the minority but I loved Seal of Command. Proccing that damage and having my character automatically do a lunging swing was super cool.

Agreed. Seals need to return and the same goes for auras imo (at the very least, fucking give us Retribution aura rather than giving it to prot ffs).
Also want Pursuit of Justice and Hammer of Wrath back.

[Whatever Dude]

Agreed. Seals need to return and the same goes for auras imo (at the very least, fucking give us Retribution aura rather than giving it to prot ffs).
Also want Pursuit of Justice and Hammer of Wrath back.

Hammer of Wrath is essential. Throwing up a thunderous hammer to finish off the enemy from range is one of the most iconic Paladin things in WoW. Can't believe they took it away.

[Shelly]

yet, this iteration of ret paladin is the least ret of all iterations. sure, you can like it. like whatever you want. but I think the point most people are making is that this version of ret is so unlike every other version, that it feels like youre not playing the same spec. and this is coming from folks who have played this spec for quite some time, we have a certain perspective that gives credibility to knowing what a ret paladin has and hasnt been in the past.

I don't know how long you've been playing ret, and even if you have played for several of the different forms of ret, there shouldn't really be much arguing over this fact. that this ret is the most different from all others. more different than the transition from mana to holy power, though I've already said I consider the addition of holy power to be the single biggest change to ret, we still had much of our kit back then, much of which we dont have now, for better or worse depending on the spell or ability in question. at its most basic, this is the argument many of us are making. that ret has been stripped down to be almost unrecognizable from its former self. even as close as the last expansion its incredibly un-ret

My first character on a now lost to time trial account in vanilla was a paladin.

My 2nd character to max level in BC was a paladin.

My main through Cataclysm and MoP was a paladin.

I'm just fine with this playstyle, I'll admit that I preferred that of WoD but Legion isn't bad and it still feels like Ret.

As Karzerus, right below you noted, it could definitely use some audio/visual sprucing up though. Make TV feel more solid mostly and even if you're fine with the state of Ret I don't think anyone playing paladin alive would disagree that we shouldn't get Hammer of Wrath back.

Even if it was just a change during wings that would make our CS go into HoW and generate more HP or something.

But my paladin still feels like my paladin right down to divine burst damage in a fast cycling window.

[jontunnel130]

just give me my damned character back. hammer, pursuit, aura, seal, a real eye for an eye, dp.
for those of you commenting in this thread who've just started a ret or have mained for 10 years, this applies to all.
a lot of us have been around for awhile now. i picked a paladin for numerous reasons. chief among them was the lore and all of the tie-ins with the in-game world.
after years of playing this "main" is the only character i consider even worth logging onto although ive had up to 8 max levels in one xpac. now with life and work and family my wow time has diminished to almost nothingness. do you think i want to reroll or even consider rerolling because they spent little to no time hashing out our current playstyle and butchering our class. F NO. So yes, if you like this current edition you go right on ahead. If this were any other class i would be like ok, average dps, lil clunky and boring at times. but overall D+, C-. But this is my main and they ripped half of our baseline talents away...I would have seriously loved to sit in that room when those decisions were made. To see if they all had fiendish smiles which would mean they're trolling us. Or the complacent dead eyes of people who hate their job and could care less what a spec "feels like". they really need to institute a policy of playing a class for a min of 40 hours played time, possibly longer to even begin to start ripping talents away. the fact that this current iteration exists basically untouched with only damage adjustments is astounding. that would take effort! this like so many other things with this xpac leave the vets with a inner thought of yep, modus operandi for blizz. they stopped fixing the game some time ago. its why pvp is in its current state as well. i would've like to have been more articulate but i've went over all this stuff and more too many times. post constructive criticisms, ignored. post suggestions, ignored. done caring. since cataclysm they dont take feedback. so whats the point.

[Degenerator]

I'm in a HC raiding guild which goes for ATOC and I have found my Paladin to be fun. I main Ret but often switch to Holy in m+. It's easy to forget how slow Ret played at the start of the expansion and that it really did take several *fixes* to get our play style flowing well as it does now. That being said, our movement is still so bad, and the blessing thing, is just pathetic. Also, can we get rid of our passive....

I love my paladin, have played it since Vanilla. I will always play it since I really enjoy the Paladin class. I just wish for 8.0 Blizzard went balls to the wall and decided, ok you wanna dps play Ret, you wanna heal play Holy etc etc not trying to create this support class nonsense that simply doesn't work well.

Ret is our only dps spec, it should be a full blown dps spec, not gimped by ideas of utility and off healing that really amount to weak versions of what Holy brings anyways. Just my opinion. Here's hoping for 8.0.

[Reith]

I just wish for 8.0 Blizzard went balls to the wall and decided, ok you wanna dps play Ret, you wanna heal play Holy etc etc not trying to create this support class nonsense that simply doesn't work well.

Ret is our only dps spec, it should be a full blown dps spec, not gimped by ideas of utility and off healing that really amount to weak versions of what Holy brings anyways. Just my opinion. Here's hoping for 8.0.

This makes me think you don't actually play Ret, because the few utility abilities we have are more niche and pointless than they ever have been in past expansions. We're basically just a weak DPS class with Wisdom. Our status as any kind of support role has been thoroughly destroyed with Legion's release. No more Hand of Purity, Light's Hammer, Holy Prism, Turn Evil (with Evil is a Point of View), Clemency, Stay of Execution, Holy Avenger, Unbreakable Spirit, Glyph of Battle Healer, Glyph of Flash of Light, Emancipation, Cleansing Magic, Selfless Healer, Seal of Justice, Glyph of Blinding Light, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Salvation, Glyph of Harsh Words.. yeah that's a lot of things we lost.

[Deleted]

My ret pally feels like a wet noodle compared to my arms warrior I play also.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Full-blown dps spec can provide meaningful support, while remaining distinctly paladin-like and within limits of balance.
It just requires devs to actually commit to, well, actually develop. And not some thungamajig at that, but abhorrent, infamous, notoriously differently abled Retribution Paladins.
Which they, and by extension - we, can't have.
Enjoy the Suction.

[Degenerator]

This makes me think you don't actually play Ret, because the few utility abilities we have are more niche and pointless than they ever have been in past expansions. We're basically just a weak DPS class with Wisdom. Our status as any kind of support role has been thoroughly destroyed with Legion's release. No more Hand of Purity, Light's Hammer, Holy Prism, Turn Evil (with Evil is a Point of View), Clemency, Stay of Execution, Holy Avenger, Unbreakable Spirit, Glyph of Battle Healer, Glyph of Flash of Light, Emancipation, Cleansing Magic, Selfless Healer, Seal of Justice, Glyph of Blinding Light, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Salvation, Glyph of Harsh Words.. yeah that's a lot of things we lost.

So.....we agree then. And I very much do play Ret I'm sure we are saying the same thing.

[Lex Icon]

didn't think it could get worse than Cataclysm but somehow they managed. bravo?

[Balinus]

Just make pallies the way they were in WoTLK, without holy power. That was the golden era of ret paly

[Eurytos]

I'm coming around on this idea of Wrath as a resource. I think it could be cool. First, scrap mana altogether.
Not our main resource, but as a secondary resource that builds up by using abilities and Holy Power. And when it reaches certain amounts, other abilities can be used.

For instance, from 10-50% Wrath, any non damaging ability has its utility buffed. Flash of Light does increased healing, Hand spells do their job more effectively, whatever. Each increased utility costing about 10% Wrath.

And, maybe, from 50%-100% Wrath, you can use Hammer of Wrath. It does more dmg the more Wrath is consumed. And when actually in execute range, the amount depleted is half, allowing more HoW. Something like that I think would be really cool and interesting. Its a clear tradeoff, sacrificing some HoW for a utility spell, but likely that HoW would be used most often in a strictly pve scenario.

Out of combat heals could cost nothing, or they could bring back the old instant and free Flash of Light after a kill, or just have Wrath generate to 50% while out of combat, so we can heal ourselves. Some quality of life things there, since mana is gone.

Scrapping mana and using a Wrath type resource could be interesting and has a lot of potential I think.

[Jaewalk]

Wow what a pity party.. just about every spec/class has that group of people that have unending complaints for the class and miss prior Xpacs.. they spend more time on the forums crying about non material things... can you just go play something else?

Ret is fine. It does well in competitive arenas and are brought to the most progressive content. Git Gud.

[rulk]

I've played Ret for a long time, even back when it was just awful. Call me a masochist I guess. That being said, I wouldn't call it a bust by any means.

Does it have issues? Absolutely. But I've still enjoyed myself overall playing Ret. I'm competitive dps wise in every single raid, and add in the utility the class has, I'm good with that.

There's definite room for improvement and streamlining, but honestly what class doesn't have that issue?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ret is fine.

No.

It does well in competitive arenas

Lolno.

[Tart]

wish they would give us hammer of wrath back.

[Reith]

Wow what a pity party.. just about every spec/class has that group of people that have unending complaints for the class and miss prior Xpacs.. they spend more time on the forums crying about non material things... can you just go play something else?

Ret is fine. It does well in competitive arenas and are brought to the most progressive content. Git Gud.

It has nothing to do with "getting good" rofl. Nobody said Ret wasn't okay. It's just not good anymore. Newer Call of Duty games aren't bad, they're mediocre. Same principle. It's okay if you like mediocre. I don't. I play ret and world of warcraft itself for reasons other than ret's mediocre gameplay, and ret was gutted more than any other spec in the game. Only other one that comes close is probably Demonology.

[Musta]

The judge window is just a arms warrior done worse. I really hope we get rid of it

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wish they would give us hammer of wrath back.

that too, and exorcism. We are supposed to be close-mid range.