AU Draenor: Will we ever get an explanation?

[Wyrt]

It doesn't make sense and Blizzard never cared if it made sense. We're just supposed to ignore its existence moving forward.

[OIS]

At the end of Mists of Pandaria, Garrosh sacrificed his soul to revive Gul'Dan. Plot fixed.

Yeah, the guy who killed all warlocks in Orgrimmar is going to sacrifice his soul to revive the OG warlock.

[cparle87]

- The red portal was destroyed and presumably never rebuilt.

- How did AU Velen get to Draenor, and be followed by demons, if there is no connection from AU Argus to AU Draenor? We would be fighting an entirely different Burning Legion.

- In the infinite timelines, there's not a single one where Velen joins the Burning Legion, and not a single one where either Kil'Jaedin or Archimonde don't? Apparently not. And the gem didn't become a plot device until later.

Also, that special gem thingy Velen has on his staff? There are literally an unlimited number of those. No big deal?

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At the end of Mists of Pandaria, Garrosh sacrificed his soul to revive Gul'Dan. Plot fixed.

The red portal goes to Ashran for gameplay purposes, you're right it was destroyed. I meant that we have no way, like the Vindicaar, to get to AU Argus.

After the council of Elrond the eagles flew Frodo to Mt. Doom and he threw the ring in. Plot solved.

[Magistrate]

Archimonde and KJ are demonic in nature now,and demons are bound to the nether,which transcends all dimensions,Velen isn't demonic

Maybe the same applies to Argus?


For the rest,pretty sure Blizzard kinda gave up after they realised how fucked toying with time travel is when it comes to plot

The problem is that since they opened the AU box, that means there has to be an AU where Velen accepted the fel, and likewise where KJ and Arch did not, so there should logically be a demonic Velen.

The original premise would have worked perfectly if they hadn't introduced the cool, but problematic, demons transcend dimensions/time element.

Like you say, it seems to be that they're just letting players enjoy it for what it is and ignoring it going forward with content. They might be able to do something with Infinite Flight or something to make a scenario that better terminates our activity in AU and fills in some plot holes, but I think they're more likely to spend time/resources developing forward than trying to fix a problem shoved in a box.

[Wyrt]

The Legion invaded WoD-Argus and picked up WoD-KJ and WoD-Arch.

There can't be an AU Argus because there can't be multiple dimensions worth of titans. It would make the whole Antoras Raid rather pointless because AU Sargeras could just pick things right up with using AU Argus to make demons immortal.

[Aquamonkey]

Yeah, the guy who killed all warlocks in Orgrimmar is going to sacrifice his soul to revive the OG warlock.

Garrosh tries to revive daddy, but Gul'dan popped out instead.

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There can't be an AU Argus because there can't be multiple dimensions worth of titans. It would make the whole Antoras Raid rather pointless because AU Sargeras could just pick things right up with using AU Argus to make demons immortal.

We already know there are multiple universes with copies of titans because of Azeroth.

[Wyrt]

We already know there are multiple universes with copies of titans because of Azeroth.

So, Antoras raid is utterly pointless and demons will just start resurrecting on AU Argus under the command of AU Sargeras. Got it.

[yetgdhfgh]

The whole xpac was just a retarded red headed bastard child that blizz would much rather you forget and not talk about while it keeps it locked up in its basement never to be spoken of again!

[Kaleredar]

Relevant:

[Deleted]

The problem is that since they opened the AU box, that means there has to be an AU where Velen accepted the fel, and likewise where KJ and Arch did not, so there should logically be a demonic Velen.

Why is that ? I mean, if you put the exact same person in the exact same position once or a gazillion times, he will always react the exact same way. I am not sure what your logic is about ?

[Piamonte]

well this is just a theory but i think it Works, this is how the twisting nether and demons are supposed to work:

-If one being in any timeline becomes a demon then every single alter ego of that being in evey single timeline also becomes a demon
-we have never seen a demonic Velen so its safe to asume that not a single Velen has fallen to corruption
-when the differents iterations of a same demon die in the different timelines, they all become one in the nether, it doesnt matter if they dont die at the same time because time works differently in the nether
-demons are cross dimensional beings, when a demon enters reality, he enters all the timelines at the same time and a iteration of that same demon is created in each timeline.

I think if the multiverse follows these "rules" then there shouldnt be any inconsistency

[ComputerNerd]

If someone doesn't like it, there won't ever be an explanation that suits them.
Many areas of the game which can be found to not work, and that was by no means the first.
And WoW is not the only game by only means to have story issues due to lack of a solid story to follow from the start.

[SinR]

Not possible since with 1 legion we would encounter demon velen already.

he's warming up in the bullpen as we speak

[Grocalis]

Going to be honest, but I created my own head cannon for this. It's not true unless Blizzard changes it, but it makes the whole thing feel more whole to me and thus allows me an easier time accepting it.

Basically, we didn't go back in time to AU Draenor. What Garrosh and Kairozdormu did was brought AU Draenor itself to us in the MU.

You see, Outland no longer exists inside regular space. The event that shattered the MU Draenor into Outland threw what remained into a pocket of the Twisting Nether, leaving it's old space in the Great Dark empty. When Garrosh and Kairozdormu used the hourglass to go to AU Draenor, what they actually did was pulled an alternate timeline of the planet into the MU space, filling the void that once existed. Basically, AU Draenor isn't still in it's own timeline, but instead is now inside ours.

This fixes a few plot issues.

It explains how the Dark Portal was made, as the AU Iron Horde just had to re-open the rift that was already there back from the time of WC2.

It helps deal with the whole demons issue, as now the demons we would be dealing with are the same without trying to explain away some mumbo-jumbo about them transcending time. Any demons that were on the planet when it was pulled (AU Mannoroth) just came along for the ride, and when he died maybe they used his soul to speed up recovery of the MU Mannoroth in time for the raid.

It also prevents the "Well what about AU Azeroth?" question, as since AU Draenor was pulled into the MU, they no longer have any chance to link with AU Azeroth or any other world in that timeline. They are now in our MU "present".

Again, it's not official, but it helps block some issues and at least gives a better grasp on plot holes.

[Magistrate]

Why is that ? I mean, if you put the exact same person in the exact same position once or a gazillion times, he will always react the exact same way. I am not sure what your logic is about ?

Because people are an accumulation of experiences that form their moral basis for making decisions. With a literally infinite number of universes in which every conceivable event sequence happened in every order imaginable, there will inevitably be many versions in which Velen, for good or ill reasons, joins the three, or in which any of the other two do not.

[Aquamonkey]

Going to be honest, but I created my own head cannon for this. It's not true unless Blizzard changes it, but it makes the whole thing feel more whole to me and thus allows me an easier time accepting it.

Basically, we didn't go back in time to AU Draenor. What Garrosh and Kairozdormu did was brought AU Draenor itself to us in the MU.

You see, Outland no longer exists inside regular space. The event that shattered the MU Draenor into Outland threw what remained into a pocket of the Twisting Nether, leaving it's old space in the Great Dark empty. When Garrosh and Kairozdormu used the hourglass to go to AU Draenor, what they actually did was pulled an alternate timeline of the planet into the MU space, filling the void that once existed. Basically, AU Draenor isn't still in it's own timeline, but instead is now inside ours.

This fixes a few plot issues.

It explains how the Dark Portal was made, as the AU Iron Horde just had to re-open the rift that was already there back from the time of WC2.

It helps deal with the whole demons issue, as now the demons we would be dealing with are the same without trying to explain away some mumbo-jumbo about them transcending time. Any demons that were on the planet when it was pulled (AU Mannoroth) just came along for the ride, and when he died maybe they used his soul to speed up recovery of the MU Mannoroth in time for the raid.

It also prevents the "Well what about AU Azeroth?" question, as since AU Draenor was pulled into the MU, they no longer have any chance to link with AU Azeroth or any other world in that timeline. They are now in our MU "present".

Again, it's not official, but it helps block some issues and at least gives a better grasp on plot holes.

I still get the same question over and over again -- is there an alternate Azeroth to go with the alternate Draenor?
Yes!

Are we going to see it?
I would never say never, but it's not planned right now.

I'm kind of wondering what that place looks like. I imagine it's really interesting.
Absolutely, and this is a precedent here, that there are alternate worlds across the multiverse. There is a multiverse, right, I mean it's something we bounced around the previous Caverns of Time stuff sort of -- like we kind of skirted it -- and we embraced it with this one. Like this is what we're talking about here, right. And if you're a true time travel nerd, you understand that's the only way time travel works anyway. (Source)

"Think it through, Hellscream." Kairoz's voice was light. "Because most of the hourglass is still in our Azeroth, this piece resonates with our timeway. Call it a glimpse… a glint of time. With a little work on my part—"
"We can go back." Garrosh felt his heart race and his skin tingle. Plans began to unfold within his mind. "Not just back to our Azeroth. It could take us back to our time."
--Hellscream

Blizzard has doubled down on the Twisting Nether outside the multiverse realities since WoD with the Illidan novel.

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Because people are an accumulation of experiences that form their moral basis for making decisions. With a literally infinite number of universes in which every conceivable event sequence happened in every order imaginable, there will inevitably be many versions in which Velen, for good or ill reasons, joins the three, or in which any of the other two do not.

Only if the Legion lasts long enough to visit those universes.

[yetgdhfgh]

I honestly wouldnt be surprised if Legendary and Universal studios was the ones who pushed this whole thing to begin with!!

They prolly said 'Ok we are going back to the beginning but nearly noone played warcraft 1 so we need you to remind them how shit went down after all we just spent 150 million dollars on this shit so chop chop Blizzard'

This whole xpac smelled of movie tie in and the reason nobody gave a monkeys left testicle about it in the Blizz dev department!

If Chris Metzen ever writes a tell all book like Hilary did boy would we learn a thing or two!!

[Amnaught]

And WoW is not the only game by only means to have story issues due to lack of a solid story to follow from the start.

This is a pretty massive story issue.

City of Heroes handled multiple timelines *much* better than this crap, with some characters being infinite across all timelines for no good reason at all.

[ComputerNerd]

This is a pretty massive story issue.

City of Heroes handled multiple timelines *much* better than this crap, with some characters being infinite across all timelines for no good reason at all.

Then how should it have been handled.
You are very quick to say it is bad, but instead nitpick with individual things which you could if you wanted to find in any game.
That does not make it what you describe it as.

Blizzard have given explanations, just not everyone is going to accept it.
And you don't.
Doesn't make it bad, just not what you wanted.

[Kagthul]

Seriously. So many plotholes, man.

There were goblins on Draenor. How?

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... Garrosh brought them. The same way he brought Zaela and the Dragonmaw loyalists. Its explained in several of the world-questy type things, when you go assault the Blackfuse off the coast of Tanaan. The opening of the "Red Portal" was not their first forray back to MU Azeroth. It was merely the opening of a portal large enough to bring in troops, provisions, and war machines.

How did we get back to Azeroth?

Via portals. Once two planets are connected by a "Dark Portal" style connection, they are connected permanently, even if the portal is destroyed. This is covered in TBC and other sources. Its why, even though the Dark Portal was closed by the opening of the Red Portal, people could still portal back and forth (and still can) to Outland. Once the hole is bored, so to say, it's there, and now anyone can use it.

Are MU Azeroth and MU Draenor permanently connected?

Yes, this was explicitly answered in-game.

If we're permanently connected, why aren't the Draenei forces of Draenor fighting alongside us on Argus?

There aren't a lot of them left, for one thing, and they are probably busy rebuilding/not starving/trying to get by. Its only been a few months. Same with the Iron Horde. Grommash said he'd help us if we needed it, but its hardly been enough time for them to get back on their feet.

What happened to AU Archimonde? If there's only one Archimonde and Kil'Jaedin, how are there two Velens?

Same thing that happened to MU Archimonde, and once he became a demon, he merged with his other demon selves, as demons transcend various timelines. (Mind, i agree with you that this is a REALLY stupid/unintuitive way to handle it, but it IS explicitly explained in plain terms, so how you dont know, im not sure). Remember, AU1 (AU Draenor's timeline) is EXTREMELY close to our own, or at least it was prior to Garrosh's disruptions. Everything about how the Draenei came to Draenor/history of the Legion is identical.

There are two Velens because he didn't become a demon.

Is there an AU Argus?

There kind of has to be, or where did the Draenei come from? Remember, Argus is their homeworld, not Draenor.

- The red portal was destroyed and presumably never rebuilt.

The giant portal structure itself, yes, but the opening of the Red Portal in the first place basically bored a hole through reality between MU Azeroth and AU Draenor. Now that that hole is there, anyone who can use portal magic and knows how to open portals to some place on one of the planets can do so.

- How did AU Velen get to Draenor, and be followed by demons, if there is no connection from AU Argus to AU Draenor? We would be fighting an entirely different Burning Legion.

Same way they did in the MU; the Naaru dropped them off. Only in this timeline, thanks to Garrosh's interference, the Naaru never brought Tempest Keep back to Draenor, leaving the Draeni stranded, essentially. (And actually, they may still show up in ~20+ years, just like they did in the MU). Remember that the MU Draenei got to MU Azeroth by essentially packing into a part of Tempest Keep and flying off with it before they could be captured.

- In the infinite timelines, there's not a single one where Velen joins the Burning Legion, and not a single one where either Kil'Jaedin or Archimonde don't?

Apparently not. He's that good of a guy.

Also, that special gem thingy Velen has on his staff? There are literally an unlimited number of those. No big deal?

Pretty big deal if you dont have the ability to go get them. Which pretty much no one does.

At the end of Mists of Pandaria, Garrosh sacrificed his soul to revive Gul'Dan. Plot fixed.

[/quote]

Yeah, makes complete sense.

Or, what the real takeaway here is that you didn't actually pay attention to the story. Not that im saying it was a good story. (It wasnt). It wasn't even a particularly good time-travel story.

But it was all explained. And it makes as much sense as it can, given the whole "demons span the various timelines" BS.

But it WAS all explained.