How many guilds killed Kil'jaeden Pre-nerf?

[Deleted]

My subscription has been inactive for the past few months, so I haven't been following it too well, but I see that rn, around 400 guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden, but how many of these are pre-nerf kills?

[Dangg]

The first version which was killed was only done by Method and Exorsus.

After that:

Kil’jaeden
Kil'jaeden's health reduced by 5% in Mythic difficulty.
Armageddon now creates 6 Armageddon Rains (was 8) in Mythic difficulty.
Illidan's Sightless Gaze now deals less damage in all difficulties.
Demonic Obelisk now spawns 3 Obelisks on the first cast in Mythic difficulty.

[Micronetic]

The first version which was killed was only done by Method and Exorsus.

But KJ was already nerfed like a few times before they killed him.

So @ OP, there was actually no pre-nerf kill :-D

[Tojara]

Depends what you mean?

July 25th

-5% less health
-6 armageddon rains (was 8)
-Illidan's buff does less damage
-Obelisks now start at 3 instead of (4, or was it 5?)

August 11th

-Rupturing Singularity now spawns in fixed locations
-Shadowsouls are no longer immune to death grip

September 12th

-5% less health on KJ, erupting reflections and shadowsouls
-maximum distance armageddons can spawn from the center of the platform has been reduced
-bursting dreadflame radius is smaller
-chaotic reflection orb damage and knock up reduced

October 17th

-15% less damage on armageddon rain
-20% less health on erupting reflection adds
-flaming orb kite time reduced to 6 seconds (was 10)
-12 million damage from focused dreadflame (was 15 million, iirc it was 30 or 25 million before anybody killed it)
-Illidan's buff does less damage

Crucible came out on the 12th for reference.

Honestly there wasn't that many kills prior to the 12th. The biggest nerf to the boss (aside from a few selected hotfixes) was indeed the crucible. While there was a decent amount of kills after the 12th, it was still nowhere near the amount of kills you would have on similar end tier bosses in the same time frame. The hotfixes in October brought a swarm of kills, but mostly because there was a couple hundred guilds already working on him, only to be brought over the edge.

They did a really poor job 'fixing' this encounter because of how it was initially designed, which in my opinion was quite poor. It might seem like a shitload of hotfixes, and yeah they add up, but the truth is a lot of them really don't matter a whole lot. The crucible and the first health nerf to the boss resulted in a boss that no longer had a DPS check, but mechanically the boss was still a mess. I guess that's what happens when you have a 12 minute fight with checks every 25 seconds (sometimes more frequent) where a single misstep can cause catastrophic failure.

[Argorwal]

2 kills.

The absolute biggest change was static singularity spawn in dark phase.

[Umbrex]

around 50 after the top tier nerfs

[Reloe]

2 kills.

The absolute biggest change was static singularity spawn in dark phase.

its not really that hard to click on a warlock gate based on a timer. Even after the nerf most guilds "immuned" one of the knockbacks with their class abilities and only played the second impact, if they even got it. Without that nerf you'd just warlock gate one of the knockbacks. At that time most guilds used the warlock gate strat during p1 already so its not even something new to learn, with the mouseover focus macro its extremly easy to do.

[Arcanines]

its not really that hard to click on a warlock gate based on a timer. Even after the nerf most guilds "immuned" one of the knockbacks with their class abilities and only played the second impact, if they even got it. Without that nerf you'd just warlock gate one of the knockbacks. At that time most guilds used the warlock gate strat during p1 already so its not even something new to learn, with the mouseover focus macro its extremly easy to do.

They changed it as it was bullshit, and because aliance players got fucked over by this I think only SB and the 2 russian guilds got it as ali. Having 0 priests because they cant do anything about it. rng in a phase where you're slowly dying is pretty much to the phase being long, with hard ticking dots IMO is overkill.

Also when they became static you took the first shadow knockback and immuned 2nd if you got it.

[Deleted]

My subscription has been inactive for the past few months, so I haven't been following it too well, but I see that rn, around 400 guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden, but how many of these are pre-nerf kills?

Technically two. Method and Exorsus.
But Blizzard had to nerf it to make it killable in the first place #blizzquality

But about 50 or so after those two were done. It's a total of 1000-1500 people from the entire playerbase.

That's how badly Blizzard wants to cater to the hardcore crowd.

[ls-]

My subscription has been inactive for the past few months, so I haven't been following it too well, but I see that rn, around 400 guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden, but how many of these are pre-nerf kills?

Two: Method and Exorsus.

[david0925]

Technically two. Method and Exorsus.
But Blizzard had to nerf it to make it killable in the first place #blizzquality

But about 50 or so after those two were done. It's a total of 1000-1500 people from the entire playerbase.

That's how badly Blizzard wants to cater to the hardcore crowd.

That's not Blizzard "catering to hardcore crowd" as much as them running out of ideas (or are being lazy) on how to make an encounter hard, so they overlap pass/fail abilities and make them happen every 20-30 seconds in a 15 minute fight.

Even a lot of Mythic raiders think heroic raids are better tuned than mythic raids regardless of difficulty, although once again most of the difficulty that came from Mythic raiding this tier came from pass/fail mechanics that come at you in very short intervals, so I'm not sure if I can separate the two completely.

Overall KJ is a pretty lame fight for such a lore icon in the WC universe and I would put it on par with the Deathwing treatment. I'm not really sure what's worse, getting turned into a badly designed raid encounter or just getting killed in single player mode (Ysera).

[Millyraynge]

Kil’jaeden
Kil'jaeden's health reduced by 5% in Mythic difficulty.
Armageddon now creates 6 Armageddon Rains (was 8) in Mythic difficulty.
Illidan's Sightless Gaze now deals less damage in all difficulties.
Demonic Obelisk now spawns 3 Obelisks on the first cast in Mythic difficulty.

These are the changes right after the second kill (exorsus). Only Method and Exorsus managed to kill KJ in his first killable state.

[Reloe]

They changed it as it was bullshit, and because aliance players got fucked over by this I think only SB and the 2 russian guilds got it as ali. Having 0 priests because they cant do anything about it. rng in a phase where you're slowly dying is pretty much to the phase being long, with hard ticking dots IMO is overkill.

Also when they became static you took the first shadow knockback and immuned 2nd if you got it.

nah we did the opposite when it became static. Dragged boss to 2nd position, immuned first, refreshed illidan debuff at the same time, finished adds at around 3-4seconds left of 2nd impact.
And if you're a priest there is still draught of souls. Ofc its stupid if you have to wear that trinket as a healer/shadow but all i'm saying is that this wasn't the "one change that nerfed this encounter the most"

[Argorwal]

nah we did the opposite when it became static. Dragged boss to 2nd position, immuned first, refreshed illidan debuff at the same time, finished adds at around 3-4seconds left of 2nd impact.
And if you're a priest there is still draught of souls. Ofc its stupid if you have to wear that trinket as a healer/shadow but all i'm saying is that this wasn't the "one change that nerfed this encounter the most"

What nerf do you think had the biggest impact?

[Reloe]

its hard to tell because I didn't get to play the boss before its very first nerfs, but the obelisk nerf might've been the biggest thing. just looked it up the initial spawn went down from 5 to 3 so thats 2 less spawns each wave. Nowadays I can easily do safespots as a tank even if we get to 5th wave because you can see safespots immediatly. I can imagine the average guild that progresses on this boss/killed it recently would have big issues dealing with 9 obelisks instead of 7.
Method got pretty lucky on their last spawn actually and I think no guild(maybe the korean guys?) that streamed progression was able to reach p3 before the nerf but if we'd still have as many obelisks now as during that time, you probably wouldn't kill the boss within 5-10 "proper" p3 attempts.
So static singularities is like a nerf that just enables you to bring all classes, though not being gobline and not having any other method to avoid singularities would still suck in other phases and obelisk nerf is what made p3 consistent.

Generally for these transition nerfs I felt like they didn't need to do both. Either make them grippable or make static singularities but not both. With a massgrip you can just get through the phase with one spawn only anyway. Even if you get the 2nd spawn and transition just after it you have enough time to see where it is and run to it, just may have to waste a heal cd early if you transition badly but overall I felt like those nerfs made the phase boring, I can't think off any wipe we had in that phase after we got it the first time.

[Millyraynge]

What nerf do you think had the biggest impact?

Armageddon from 8 smalls to 6 smalls was a pretty hard nerf which synergized with some other mechanics. This change was a really huge one.