AU Draenor: Will we ever get an explanation?

[Aquamonkey]

Same way they did in the MU; the Naaru dropped them off. Only in this timeline, thanks to Garrosh's interference, the Naaru never brought Tempest Keep back to Draenor, leaving the Draeni stranded, essentially. (And actually, they may still show up in ~20+ years, just like they did in the MU).

TK didn't bring the Draenei to Draenor, the Genedar did and crashed in both universes. TK only first showed up to Outland a little time before TBC to investigate the Burning Legion presence there.

[Deleted]

What if there was an alternative universe where Velen accepted Sargera's gift to become a demon?

Yup this is true, when NPCs mention terms as infinite realities and all dimensions of possibilities. Then you are bound to have demonic versions of everything. Not to mention the madness of having a single entity in a infinite universe. 1 Archimonde that gets summoned into different realities of Wc3 by infinite Kel'thuzads

1 Kil'jeaden bound to spend a eternity talking to infinite Illidans on top of the wc3 black temple. Etc...

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Why is that ? I mean, if you put the exact same person in the exact same position once or a gazillion times, he will always react the exact same way. I am not sure what your logic is about ?

The whole idea with caverns of time is to experience different realities that differ from MU and correct them. To make things worse, they claim AU is identical to MU and MU2 Draenor, before Garrosh travels back in time. yet there are several things that is already changed from the MU to AU without any intervention.

[Soeroah]

I like the idea that alt timelines only started after the Well exploded, and that there are only alt timelines of Azeroth unless otherwise created manually, and otherwise alt timelines only exist temporarily.

Solves a lot of issues, but sadly not canon, or known to be so yet.

[OIS]

Garrosh tries to revive daddy, but Gul'dan popped out instead.

I guess it's possible when you're writing down the magic words with autocorrect enabled.

[KSM899]

I think I know why...

Because Time Travel / Alternate Universes Expansions and Storylines are absolute fucking incomprehensible bullshit, in every story and franchise that has every existed and whoever made WoD is a fucking retard.

The one who came up with that idea is .. well he is the game director now xD

[Makorus]

Dunno why people complain about WoD timetravel when the one from WotA and even Caverns of Time is way worse.

[Raetary]

Seriously. So many plotholes, man.

There were goblins on Draenor. How?

How did we get back to Azeroth?

Are MU Azeroth and MU Draenor permanently connected?

If we're permanently connected, why aren't the Draenei forces of Draenor fighting alongside us on Argus?

What happened to AU Archimonde? If there's only one Archimonde and Kil'Jaedin, how are there two Velens?

Is there an AU Argus?

1) garrosh brought them with him
2) portals
3) MU Draenor is outland, but yes connection is always there (with both draenor and outland)
4) because literally everyone hated wod and they want us to forget it ever existed
5) there is no AU archimonde, there is only a single archimonde across all realities because he is a demon.

Vele isnt a demon, so there are 2 of him.

6) AU velen gotta come from somewhere

[Deleted]

From my own observations of the bronze and infinite dragonflights and the warcraft novels. Its a bit like the multiverse theory but not quite. The true timeway, aka our world/Argus/outland is how time is supposed to happen. When someone time travels or goes into the caverns of time and alters time in a big way a new alternate timeway is created and unless it can be negated by the bronzes which they cannot do not since the hour of twilight exists.

Kairoz used the hourglass of time to teleport Garrosh and himself to AU Draenor. Before that happened the AU Draneor did not even exist till they travelled there. I also believe he created only Draenor at that time. Thats to say before the orcs when bad and attacked the draenei. Also only that planet and its moons and sun etc. The Hourglass was not most likely not powerful enough to create an entire universe and Kairoz wanted multiple Draenors to help conquer our universe and would not want anything but that since he would not want an alternate azeroth or legion maybe to screw up his plans. Also the moment he travelled to draenor it created a link to our azeroth because he would want the iron horde to invade.

When the origanal dark portal was made by Medivh and later destroyed by khadgar the framework was gone but the link remained and in Beyond the Dark Portal was restored. So the one in tanaan that we destoyed did not destroy AU's link with us hence portal from mages were quite easy to make. Like the fact that we can make portals to Shattrath in outland. I think the link to outland still exist and a really powerful mage could attune the dark portal back to that at some point or AU Draenor. Some of my theories. Feel free to comment on it.

[Deleted]

They were Blackfuse's crew who, along with Zaela, followed Garrosh into the past with the help of the infinite dragonflight. It was going to be explained but Blizzard couldn't be bothered. Also they couldn't be bothered to include the infinite dragons. Or Wrathion. Or do anything sensical with Kairoz. Even though the lot of them were the whole reason Garrosh got sent back in time in the first place.

+1 for knowledgable and factual answers

[Lahis]

Seriously. So many plotholes, man.

There were goblins on Draenor. How?

How did we get back to Azeroth?

Are MU Azeroth and MU Draenor permanently connected?

If we're permanently connected, why aren't the Draenei forces of Draenor fighting alongside us on Argus?

What happened to AU Archimonde? If there's only one Archimonde and Kil'Jaedin, how are there two Velens?

Is there an AU Argus?

It's time travel alternate universe nonsense. It can't and will never make any sense.

Better not to think about it.

[Deleted]

Dunno why people complain about WoD timetravel when the one from WotA and even Caverns of Time is way worse.

No no they are not. Cov and WOTA are traveling within our timeline to fix stuff. It doesn't raise issues of multiverses who and who are not transcendent. CoV works fine!

[Lahis]

Going to be honest, but I created my own head cannon for this. It's not true unless Blizzard changes it, but it makes the whole thing feel more whole to me and thus allows me an easier time accepting it.

Basically, we didn't go back in time to AU Draenor. What Garrosh and Kairozdormu did was brought AU Draenor itself to us in the MU.

You see, Outland no longer exists inside regular space. The event that shattered the MU Draenor into Outland threw what remained into a pocket of the Twisting Nether, leaving it's old space in the Great Dark empty. When Garrosh and Kairozdormu used the hourglass to go to AU Draenor, what they actually did was pulled an alternate timeline of the planet into the MU space, filling the void that once existed. Basically, AU Draenor isn't still in it's own timeline, but instead is now inside ours.

This fixes a few plot issues.

It explains how the Dark Portal was made, as the AU Iron Horde just had to re-open the rift that was already there back from the time of WC2.

It helps deal with the whole demons issue, as now the demons we would be dealing with are the same without trying to explain away some mumbo-jumbo about them transcending time. Any demons that were on the planet when it was pulled (AU Mannoroth) just came along for the ride, and when he died maybe they used his soul to speed up recovery of the MU Mannoroth in time for the raid.

It also prevents the "Well what about AU Azeroth?" question, as since AU Draenor was pulled into the MU, they no longer have any chance to link with AU Azeroth or any other world in that timeline. They are now in our MU "present".

Again, it's not official, but it helps block some issues and at least gives a better grasp on plot holes.

That would be simple solution.

Which means Blizzard will never use.


Though I don't think they'll ever touch anything about WoD again.

[Miatog]

Seriously. So many plotholes, man.

Actually most of your plotholes have been addressed very clearly.

There were goblins on Draenor. How?

Came with us.

How did we get back to Azeroth?

Through all the portals we established in Ashran. Those were lore. Mostly put there for player connivance, but they exist in lore. Took a lot of effort to set up.

Are MU Azeroth and MU Draenor permanently connected?

I assume you mean AU Draenor?

This one is a little trickier. We have portals set up, but they're not the most stable thing since they don't have grand structures (like the Dark Portal) to hold them. It's probably a lot of maintenance/power to hold them, but hold them we do. If they failed, lore wise, we'd probably lose our connection to AU Draenor would be lost.

If we're permanently connected, why aren't the Draenei forces of Draenor fighting alongside us on Argus?

Because we aren't asking them. They're cleaning up the mess made by the Iron Horde and the Legion right now. They'll come if we call for them, but I don't think they're keeping tabs on us so to speak. They're focusing on their world first and foremost.

What happened to AU Archimonde?

Given that timeline was picked for being so close to ours, I assume he also went demon.

If there's only one Archimonde and Kil'Jaedin, how are there two Velens?

Because Velen never went demon. Apparently, and here I agree they have a problem, going demon means that you fuse with every version of yourself that also went demon. Which would mean there's an infinite number of you uncorrupted, but only one of you corrupted. Best answer I have for you.

Is there an AU Argus?

I assume no. I assume the same thing applies for planets that have been drenched in fel, they merge with all over corrupted versions of it.

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Going to be honest, but I created my own head cannon for this. It's not true unless Blizzard changes it, but it makes the whole thing feel more whole to me and thus allows me an easier time accepting it.

Basically, we didn't go back in time to AU Draenor. What Garrosh and Kairozdormu did was brought AU Draenor itself to us in the MU.

You see, Outland no longer exists inside regular space. The event that shattered the MU Draenor into Outland threw what remained into a pocket of the Twisting Nether, leaving it's old space in the Great Dark empty. When Garrosh and Kairozdormu used the hourglass to go to AU Draenor, what they actually did was pulled an alternate timeline of the planet into the MU space, filling the void that once existed. Basically, AU Draenor isn't still in it's own timeline, but instead is now inside ours.

This fixes a few plot issues.

It explains how the Dark Portal was made, as the AU Iron Horde just had to re-open the rift that was already there back from the time of WC2.

It helps deal with the whole demons issue, as now the demons we would be dealing with are the same without trying to explain away some mumbo-jumbo about them transcending time. Any demons that were on the planet when it was pulled (AU Mannoroth) just came along for the ride, and when he died maybe they used his soul to speed up recovery of the MU Mannoroth in time for the raid.

It also prevents the "Well what about AU Azeroth?" question, as since AU Draenor was pulled into the MU, they no longer have any chance to link with AU Azeroth or any other world in that timeline. They are now in our MU "present".

Again, it's not official, but it helps block some issues and at least gives a better grasp on plot holes.

I have one issue with this. How? How did they do this? They went through a portal, then Garrosh had a copy of the Dark Portal made and connected it to ours with the shard. At what point and how did they bring AU draenor to our world?

[Vladier]

There is one very simple explanation for why there isn't a demonic Velen. I believe that there are several references that the Second Duumvirate lead their people out of a dark age, so for all we know, if there aren't Velen and Kil'Jaeden to lead the Eredar, there isn't an Eredar civilization that catches Sargeras' (or his AU counterpart's) attention. Kil'Jaeden, however, is envious of Velen for his gift, his vision, his faith, so we can guess that it was Velen who was instrumental to the prosperity of the Eredar. In fact, placement of Velen's statue at the center of the composition of the Triumvirate lends to this hypothesis. That would mean that Velen without the gift of sight either isn't a leader or the Eredar never recover and are doomed, so no Legion is that AU. If Velen has the gift but is somehow susceptible to corruption nonetheless, he would likely first be turned at Thal'Kiel's proposal. As this is apparently long before Sargeras is turned, the warlock Eredar are more likely to be destroyed by Sargeras the Defender, so no Legion Eredar there. Without Thal'Kiel, Archomonde doesn't become the third ruler of the Eredar, the Duumvirate stays that way and Kil'Jaeden is more likely to listen to Velen (who can still see the future and doesn't like what he sees) without Archimonde's voice to support him. So the Eredar don't turn and Sargeras destroys them for spurning him. And if Kil'Jaeden turns to spite Velen, the Eredar are now split more evenly so Velen stays on Argus instead of fleeing, seeing his chance. He either gets killed or perhaps Naaru get enough time to lend him military aid instead of just a trasport ship, so he wins and Sargeras then destroys Argus. In fact, if Argus has the Worldsoul in that AU, Velen might get aid from him as well.

The only way for demon Velen to occur would be for him to decline Thal'Kiel's offer of Fel but then fall for Sargeras' words immidiately (despite having fiture sight). If he doubts Sargeras' offer he goes to consult Ata'mal crystal which is the gift from the Naaru, doesn't go through and flees Argus (or perhaps dies trying).

[ONCHEhap]

By that logic, there could be other realities where Archimonde and Kil'Jaedin opposed Sargeras, and Velen joined the Burning Legion. Where is Demon-Velen?

Edit: I mean, if it remains true that this alternate timeline is just as "true" as others that were shown to Garrosh by Kairoz.

I mean....Probably?
It's hard enough to try to justify WoD as it is :P

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The problem is that since they opened the AU box, that means there has to be an AU where Velen accepted the fel, and likewise where KJ and Arch did not, so there should logically be a demonic Velen.

The original premise would have worked perfectly if they hadn't introduced the cool, but problematic, demons transcend dimensions/time element.

Like you say, it seems to be that they're just letting players enjoy it for what it is and ignoring it going forward with content. They might be able to do something with Infinite Flight or something to make a scenario that better terminates our activity in AU and fills in some plot holes, but I think they're more likely to spend time/resources developing forward than trying to fix a problem shoved in a box.

As replied to the other post,you're right,and like all that AU stuff,it fucks with plot a lot

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So when Archimonde and Kil'jaeden became demonic in one universe, all the other ones who didn't become demonic simply poofed into thin air.

Interesting.

Then why was AU Velen on AU Draenor and not on AU Argus? Why did AU Velen have to flee to AU Draenor?

I think I know why...

Because Time Travel / Alternate Universes Expansions and Storylines are absolute fucking incomprehensible bullshit, in every story and franchise that has every existed and whoever made WoD is a fucking retard.

summed it up quite right

[Kokolums]

If you recall, waaaaaaay back in burning crusade, you fight prince melchazaar as the final boss of karazhan. He drops gorehowl. Yah THE gorehowl. That proves they had wod-style AUs in mind even back then because obviously he got if off of some AU horde.

My current understanding is that the AU draenor of WoD was just a pocket universe specially selected by Kairoz. Altho just why legion was invading a pocket universe escapes me.

[Beet]

Archimonde and KJ are demonic in nature now,and demons are bound to the nether,which transcends all dimensions,Velen isn't demonic

Maybe the same applies to Argus?

For the rest,pretty sure Blizzard kinda gave up after they realised how fucked toying with time travel is when it comes to plot

The thing with Archimonde, Velen, and Kiljaeden just made me realize how stupid it is. So hypothetically if our Velen decided to become a demon in WoD, this means the AU Velen would have just disappeared? Or vice versa? Blizzard goofed so much with WoD, ugh.

[Aquamonkey]

The thing with Archimonde, Velen, and Kiljaeden just made me realize how stupid it is. So hypothetically if our Velen decided to become a demon in WoD, this means the AU Velen would have just disappeared? Or vice versa? Blizzard goofed so much with WoD, ugh.

No. The non-demon versions are not connected at all. One version becoming a demon doesn't erase all non-demon versions.

[Piamonte]

No. The non-demon versions are not connected at all. One version becoming a demon doesn't erase all non-demon versions.

i believe that if one velen becomes a demon, then every single velen also becomes a demon, just for the sake of simplicity. Not counting Wod of course, because thats a special case

[Aquamonkey]

i believe that if one velen becomes a demon, then every single velen also becomes a demon, just for the sake of simplicity. Not counting Wod of course, because thats a special case

Why is WoD a special case? WoD-KJ and WoD-Arch became demons independently thousands of years before that universe came into contact with the MU.