Templates Gone: Anyone Else Wanna See This?

[Sascatuan]

If your concordance isn't high enough and your honor level to unlock all honor talents you can't jump in to do PVP.

This is the placebo effect convincing Blizz that under geared and under developed characters can jump right in. But that isn't true because it was true you would see more people playing alts in PVP and queue times would be better.

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Pruning hurts utility and also damage/healing requiring some set up. Right now people use 1-2 buttons to do damage without set up.

Yes having honor talents and higher concord is the most ideal sittuation and you will lose games as a factor of not having honor talents, while that is true it does not however prevent you from climbing to a decent rating on the 3v3 ladder, i can confirm that with less than half the talents required you can still push to 2200+, but this is far better than any previous system where you had to have gear for the edge to compete at all.

[Mafic]

Yes having honor talents and higher concord is the most ideal sittuation and you will lose games as a factor of not having honor talents, while that is true it does not however prevent you from climbing to a decent rating on the 3v3 ladder, i can confirm that with less than half the talents required you can still push to 2200+, but this is far better than any previous system where you had to have gear for the edge to compete at all.

The scaling has been with WoW PVP well before Legion. Templates are not needed for scaling in instanced PVP.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Sascatuan]

The scaling has been with WoW PVP well before Legion. Templates are not needed for scaling in instanced PVP.

Thanks for proving my point.

That doesnt prove your point... scaling in the past was based on the stat that you had on your gear as well as weapon damage, now its based on a pre determined stat template which scales based on ilvl and at a rate of 1% per 10 ilvl, that is far different and far more balanced than previous systems no matter how you look at it. Theres an argument to be had for whether this is more fun or less fun for the overall game but competitively its better now with less variable that you can have control over in regards to stats keeping things in line with how they want them.

[Mafic]

That doesnt prove your point... scaling in the past was based on the stat that you had on your gear as well as weapon damage, .

And what is wrong with that? Nothing.

now its based on a pre determined stat template which scales based on ilvl and at a rate of 1% per 10 ilvl, that is far different and far more balanced than previous systems no matter how you look at it.

How is it more balanced? You have players having a 3--4% edge against average geared players and upwards of 7-9% edge against undergeared players. This is Legion.

In the past everyone from 2500 rated glad to 1600 challenger had the same gear by mid season with a difference of 0%.

Theres an argument to be had for whether this is more fun or less fun for the overall game but competitively its better now with less variable that you can have control over in regards to stats keeping things in line with how they want them.

This isn't subjective.

The facts are that participation has dropped off and this is the most imbalanced PVP has ever been.

[Sascatuan]

In the past everyone from 2500 rated glad to 1600 challenger had the same gear by mid season with a difference of 0%. well thats untrue, in the past elite gear was superior and was not obtainable by 1600-2200 players... and the 3-4% edge isnt 3-4% more to an individual stat such as 3 % to mastery, its 3% to the overall template as a whole which actually means less than many may actually think. Think every pvper that actually plays the game at a higher level can agree that participation drop offs could be more attributed to the seasons being 12 weeks long as opposed to 32-38 weeks which is huge.

[Craaazyyy]

This isn't subjective.

The facts are that participation has dropped off and this is the most imbalanced PVP has ever been.

its not even about if its imbalanced or not.. its just too easy and boring to play..

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In the past everyone from 2500 rated glad to 1600 challenger had the same gear by mid season with a difference of 0%. well thats untrue, in the past elite gear was superior and was not obtainable by 1600-2200 players... and the 3-4% edge isnt 3-4% more to an individual stat such as 3 % to mastery, its 3% to the overall template as a whole which actually means less than many may actually think. Think every pvper that actually plays the game at a higher level can agree that participation drop offs could be more attributed to the seasons being 12 weeks long as opposed to 32-38 weeks which is huge.

participation dropped off b4 legion even started.. no one was playing pvp in legion to begin with, dude.. some ppl quit early wod(like me) some ppl quit later on.. and they obviously didnt return in legion cuz nothing really changed to the good, its only became worse and these pvp templates obviously didnt help..

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That doesnt prove your point... scaling in the past was based on the stat that you had on your gear as well as weapon damage, now its based on a pre determined stat template which scales based on ilvl and at a rate of 1% per 10 ilvl, that is far different and far more balanced than previous systems no matter how you look at it. Theres an argument to be had for whether this is more fun or less fun for the overall game but competitively its better now with less variable that you can have control over in regards to stats keeping things in line with how they want them.

first of all its not balanced.. since its blizzard who are doing all the balancing.. im 100% sure blizzard have no idea which stats are the best for each class in pvp.. they balance it for the damage/healing output which is not all you do in pvp(tho again in legion its close to being all you do in pvp which is sad)

so its not balanced, but at the same time its also super boring cuz you cant change your stats the way you want to change them.. gear up the way you want to gear up.. i think balance for the sake of balance is stupid in wow.. regardless if its pve or pvp(especially pvp).. basically having NO gear is stupid, its not mmo like

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Yes having honor talents and higher concord is the most ideal sittuation and you will lose games as a factor of not having honor talents, while that is true it does not however prevent you from climbing to a decent rating on the 3v3 ladder, i can confirm that with less than half the talents required you can still push to 2200+, but this is far better than any previous system where you had to have gear for the edge to compete at all.

thats not true btw.. there were alot of cases when ppl were getting high rated in blue/green gear b4

[Mafic]

In the past everyone from 2500 rated glad to 1600 challenger had the same gear by mid season with a difference of 0%. well thats untrue, in the past elite gear was superior and was not obtainable by 1600-2200 players... and the 3-4% edge isnt 3-4% more to an individual stat such as 3 % to mastery, its 3% to the overall template as a whole which actually means less than many may actually think. Think every pvper that actually plays the game at a higher level can agree that participation drop offs could be more attributed to the seasons being 12 weeks long as opposed to 32-38 weeks which is huge.

We are not talking WotLK gearing are we? We are comparing WoD and MOP where everyone could earn the same gear to be on the same level playing field. Competition is about the same level playing field. Legion RNG gear means you can never have the same level playing field.

[jontunnel130]

templates are the lazy dev' s wet dream. KEEP defending them, blizz fanboys. you probably have a faction mount too don't you lol

[xindralol]

Since I like duels and world pvp I'd love to see templates go.

[DenniZ]

Absolutely. PVP templates made it feel completely useless and rewardless to play PVP.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Think every pvper that actually plays the game at a higher level can agree that participation drop offs could be more attributed to the seasons being 12 weeks long as opposed to 32-38 weeks which is huge.

Season 14 (MoP)
http://www.arenamate.net/arena-rbg-t...fs/archive/s14
1164 US gladiator spots > 232,800 people actively playing arena in US

Season 15 (MoP)
http://www.arenamate.net/arena-rbg-t...fs/archive/s15
1659 US gladiator spots > 331,800 people actively playing arena in US

Warlords Season 1
http://www.arenamate.net/arena-rbg-t...ve/warlords-s1
1302 US gladiator spots > 260,400 people actively playing arena in US

Warlords Season 3
http://www.arenamate.net/arena-rbg-t...ve/warlords-s3
1213 US gladiator spots > 242,600 people actively playing arena in US

Legion Season 3
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20755686108
128 US Alliance gladiator spots + 168 Horde gladiator spots > 296 total US gladiator spots > 59,200 people actively playing arena in US

yep, a 76% drop in participation between WoD season 3 and Legion season 3 is 100% down to pvp seasons being slightly shorter and absolutely nothing to do with Legion pvp being a boring pve rotation snorefest, even when compared to WoD

[Matthias]

In the past everyone from 2500 rated glad to 1600 challenger had the same gear by mid season with a difference of 0%. well thats untrue, in the past elite gear was superior and was not obtainable by 1600-2200 players... and the 3-4% edge isnt 3-4% more to an individual stat such as 3 % to mastery, its 3% to the overall template as a whole which actually means less than many may actually think. Think every pvper that actually plays the game at a higher level can agree that participation drop offs could be more attributed to the seasons being 12 weeks long as opposed to 32-38 weeks which is huge.

Not a fan of shorter seasons either tbh...

As someone who does both PvP and PvE, I normally try to prime my PvE up for the current raid tier to find groups easier. By the time I'm ready to PvP....the season is nearly over and I feel little need to bother.

[Super Kami Dende]

One of the primary motivations for me to PvP was to obtain PvP gear so that I could wreck people in World PvP. I was never a ganker. My style was more so a white knight, I'd help people with gankers. And if you ever ganked me I'd literally put everything I had aside for that day to hunt that scum bag down, and kill em twice at least.

PvP Gear is now gone, World PvP is a joke, and hell you can't even duel, which was a great way to hone your skills. I just feel like Templates are a huge spit in the face for many types of PvPers. Also along with the fact that you now have 0 custimization options. This is an MMO, not a MOBA.

I thought the system they had in WoD was near perfect. Your gear would scale up in PvP combat. PvP gear's only advantages were through it's set bonuses. If you were raiding the current tier, you could PvP fine until you collected your PvP gear. All they had to do was allow lower end gear to scale up to higher base level, so you wouldn't get absolutely wrecked on a fresh character.

Nope, I hope they keep Templates for good. It's always nice to absolutely crush someone in a Template area, since you know you were simply the better player. PvP in Legion is the most fun it has been since Cata. Most people I see complain about Templates are bads that are upset they can't just go into Random BGs and stomp people grinding gear after they botted the first few weeks themselves to get a full PvP set.

[Osmeric]

yep, a 76% drop in participation between WoD season 3 and Legion season 3 is 100% down to pvp seasons being slightly shorter and absolutely nothing to do with Legion pvp being a boring pve rotation snorefest, even when compared to WoD

Good grief I had no idea it was down that much. The bottom really fell out of the ladders, didn't it?

No wonder Holinka (was) moved on.

[Mafic]

Nope, I hope they keep Templates for good. It's always nice to absolutely crush someone in a Template area, since you know you were simply the better player. PvP in Legion is the most fun it has been since Cata. Most people I see complain about Templates are bads that are upset they can't just go into Random BGs and stomp people grinding gear after they botted the first few weeks themselves to get a full PvP set.

I wreck more noobs now in Legion with the "template" system than any other expansion.

This is because of artifact power scaling out of control and most players in template area are item level 910 or lower.

[Super Kami Dende]

I wreck more noobs now in Legion with the "template" system than any other expansion.

Or maybe that is because the "noobs" you are wrecking were previously people that would just outgear people and are now useless.

[docterfreeze]

Nope, I hope they keep Templates for good. It's always nice to absolutely crush someone in a Template area, since you know you were simply the better player. PvP in Legion is the most fun it has been since Cata. Most people I see complain about Templates are bads that are upset they can't just go into Random BGs and stomp people grinding gear after they botted the first few weeks themselves to get a full PvP set.

Yikes. You do know this is legion right? Outplays are dead and gone. If you beat someone it's because your class/comp allowed it. Like when I rerolled WW this expansion and was suddenly able to turn games around almost every match cause there was nothing most classes could do about me porting away and healing/waiting for cooldowns.

In S1 I got to 2.1k just facerolling people with a random feral I found in LFG. No comms, just obliterating people with damage. I wasn't pulling off any sick plays, in fact I did the same thing every game. Stun, wings, ashes, pve rotation. Pop holy wrath when low. You'd think it was scripted.

In previous expansions I would have been smacked down like the 1700 rated player I am.

[Matthias]

Yikes. You do know this is legion right? Outplays are dead and gone. If you beat someone it's because your class/comp allowed it. Like when I rerolled WW this expansion and was suddenly able to turn games around almost every match cause there was nothing most classes could do about me porting away and healing/waiting for cooldowns.

In S1 I got to 2.1k just facerolling people with a random feral I found in LFG. No comms, just obliterating people with damage. I wasn't pulling off any sick plays, in fact I did the same thing every game. Stun, wings, ashes, pve rotation. Pop holy wrath when low. You'd think it was scripted.

In previous expansions I would have been smacked down like the 1700 rated player I am.

Yea the "Outplayed" comment here kind of baffled me a bit. With all the prune you either know your class or you dont. Back in WoTLK/Cata/MoP when our Spell Books were bloated it there was a bit more nuance.

Also out playing people feels better in 1v1 scenarios, and dueling sucks now. Or in World PvP, which is a joke now.