Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

[Cthulhu 2020]

That is not the problem, demand is still there. Regulations have killed the coal companies to the point where it is not profitable.

What regulations? Please be specific.

Oh and I'll give you one freebie: OSHA Laws that protect the health and lives of miners made coal significantly more expensive. We could always return to hearing about mine accidents every two months with tens to hundreds of dead miners if you wanted to make coal YUGE again. Operating costs went way up when mining companies suddenly had to view their miners as more than disposable bodies.

Second freebie: While cuckservatives and Trumpkins like to blame Obama for the increase in coal "cost", they can't ever seem to answer why. Probably because the only thing Obama did was end some coal subsidies, which were only making coal appear to be cheaper. In the end, you were still paying full price with your tax dollars.

So now that you got those two freebies, tell me what regulations specifically make coal more expensive.

[Jeezy911]

What regulations? Please be specific.

Oh and I'll give you one freebie: OSHA Laws that protect the health and lives of miners made coal significantly more expensive. We could always return to hearing about mine accidents every two months with tens to hundreds of dead miners if you wanted to make coal YUGE again. Operating costs went way up when mining companies suddenly had to view their miners as more than disposable bodies.

Second freebie: While cuckservatives and Trumpkins like to blame Obama for the increase in coal "cost", they can't ever seem to answer why. Probably because the only thing Obama did was end some coal subsidies, which were only making coal appear to be cheaper. In the end, you were still paying full price with your tax dollars.

So now that you got those two freebies, tell me what regulations specifically make coal more expensive.

What regulations?

And then you basically list them for me. I'm not arguing for or against coal, just clearing up the false argument that demand for coal is down when it is certainly more complicated than that.

EPA changes in 2014-The EPA proposal sets a different carbon reduction threshold for each state based on feasibility, cost and current pollution levels, to help achieve a 30 percent reduction in carbon emissions nationally by 2030.

[Orbitus]

Coal makes up 70% of the electricity in the U.S. Not sure demand is the problem.

As it has been shown, it isn't even half that anymore. Thanks for showing that you cannot read.

And regulations haven't been killing the coal industry, other forms of energy have been. It is like you can't research ANYTHING. But I already knew that.

[Rasulis]

I agree with the miners. There's no reason to train to do something else when you live in the Saudi Arabia of coal.

Wait till they perfected the method for extracting methane from ice.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/asia/o...ice/index.html

You won't be able to give away those coal even as stocking stuffer.

[Jeezy911]

As it has been shown, it isn't even half that anymore. Thanks for showing that you cannot read.

And regulations haven't been killing the coal industry, other forms of energy have been. It is like you can't research ANYTHING. But I already knew that.

Fair enough, correction: Fossil Fuels make up 65% of electricity used in the U.S. as of 2016, of that over 30% is from coal.

[Poopymonster]

Guys we need to stop Coal mining immediately. All of it. You might dig too deep and fall through into space.

[Edge-]

Fair enough, correction: Fossil Fuels make up 65% of electricity used in the U.S. as of 2016, of that over 30% is from coal.

Actually, it was exactly 30%, behind natural gas at 34%. On a continued downward trend that dates back decades.

[Cthulhu 2020]

What regulations?

And then you basically list them for me. I'm not arguing for or against coal, just clearing up the false argument that demand for coal is down when it is certainly more complicated than that.

EPA changes in 2014-The EPA proposal sets a different carbon reduction threshold for each state based on feasibility, cost and current pollution levels, to help achieve a 30 percent reduction in carbon emissions nationally by 2030.

I listed a common misconception (that Obama is at fault) and an eye opener, that keeping employees safe is expensive.

That 2014 EPA proposal was just that, a proposal that got stalled out.

And here's the thing, natural gas is affected by any emission capping (or similar) regulations same as coal is, and it continues to be cheaper. If conservatives are insistent upon burning shit to make their power, gas and oil are cheaper than coal, so why are they not happy that we're still belching carbon into the air, but with cheaper natural gas?

It seriously doesn't make sense why some have this obsession with coal power. One can't call themselves an economic conservative if they want the government to buy a more expensive product just because they like that product more than the cheaper alternative.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys we need to stop Coal mining immediately. All of it. You might dig too deep and fall through into space.

We might find the turtle holding the world up though. That'd be YUGE.

[Rasulis]

Actually, they're not. There's no air pollution here... and we've got a clean coal plant within 20 miles.

There are no clean coal power plant in the US. There was one under construction in Mississippi. However, due to construction delay (7 years) and cost run off (over 7 billion) it will be converted to a natural gas power plant.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#26681f2b7d26

BTW, you can build at least 7 natural gas power plant with 7 billion in CA. Probably 14 in Mississippi.

[Paranoid Android]

I LOVE this story. Remember when Trumpkins/Conservatives always give you the "pull yourself up by bootstrap" speech. Well yeah, looks as though they don't want to follow their own mantra.

Anecdotally people such as them and from manufacturing basically want to graduate high school and get the good paying job at local factory in which it pays a good salary to raise a family and buy a house etc. Again I'm not knocking these people but this part of American dream is dying. Yet we have these people expecting almost a miracle.

So the "pull yourself by bootstrap" speech is for others, not you. Sadly it's politicians dividing people who are in the same boat but are rowing in opposite directions.

[Deja Thoris]

I worked at the biggest single coal burning factory in the world for a while (its in South Africa) and makes petrol from coal - a byproduct of the old appartheid days and oil embargoes.

As such I feel I know a decent amount about coal.

There is no such thing as "clean coal". It's a very polluting substance, not just from the CO2 but from the other thousand nasties released when it combusts. "Clean coal" filters out the most egregious shit like the VoX and NoX etc but its basic chemistry that burning stuff emits CO2 and thats a problem.

The world is moving on at rapid pace. The cost of renewables is falling even faster than the most optimistic estimates from years back. It's momentum is unstoppable. If you're banking on a coal renaissance you're a fucking idiot. Reskill or enjoy unemployment.


Forgot to mention* The only way to make coal "clean" is to sequester the CO2. That involves basically pumping the CO2 underground into certain types of geological formations. This poses 2 problems.
1) It's expensive
2) These types of formations generally don't co-exist near coal seams so you gotta transport the Co2 which.... is expensive.

[Felya]

I LOVE this story. Remember when Trumpkins/Conservatives always give you the "pull yourself up by bootstrap" speech. Well yeah, looks as though they don't want to follow their own mantra.

Anecdotally people such as them and from manufacturing basically want to graduate high school and get the good paying job at local factory in which it pays a good salary to raise a family and buy a house etc. Again I'm not knocking these people but this part of American dream is dying. Yet we have these people expecting almost a miracle.

So the "pull yourself by bootstrap" speech is for others, not you. Sadly it's politicians dividing people who are in the same boat but are rowing in opposite directions.

They call them selfs moochers for a reason...

[Poopymonster]

I listed a common misconception (that Obama is at fault) and an eye opener, that keeping employees safe is expensive.
.

If you have to have that pesky insurance, create safe working conditions, not cut corners that could harm or kill your workers, and worst of all maintain it at safe levels, it is expensive!

[Breccia]

There is no such thing as "clean coal".

As much as I've seen this in article after article after article after article after press conference after science convention after obviousness, it's always good to hear first-hand testimony. Thanks for sharing. Not sarcasm.

[Cthulhu 2020]

That is not the problem, demand is still there. Regulations have killed the coal companies to the point where it is not profitable.

Going back to this quote, which is oft repeated by more than just you, why whine about regulations increasing the cost of coal, when the most expensive and by far the biggest contributor to raising coal's price is ENSURING WORKER SAFETY?

Coal has gotten expensive because coal mines are a natural disaster area that needs tons of equipment and infrastructure to keep workers safe.

You want coal cheaper? Carbon capping isn't doing much to the price, when those regulations went into effect the price of coal barely moved. But as SAFETY regulations step up higher and higher, so too does the cost of extracting coal.

So we can either concede that people just need to die so we can use coal... or we can concede that coal is just too expensive. Many coal plants are being refitted to burn natural gas and oil instead. The only reason our country even still uses a lot of coal energy is we made those coal plants a long time ago, and building new infrastructure is expensive... but it's also an investment in that in the long run, it will be cheaper. That's why coal is slowly phasing out.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Coal is garbage and everyone knows it. Mining it must rot the brain if these people actually believed Trump would magically bring their jobs back.

[Realitytrembles]

The amount of condescension ITT towards the working class is unsurprising. These kinds of attitudes you're displaying here are a big part of the reason so many people voted for Trump. Even after he's gone, these people will still have a vote, and they will remember how they've been condescended to.


You want more populist rabble-rousers in politics? Then keep it up.

[Felya]

Coal is garbage and everyone knows it. Mining it must rot the brain if these people actually believed Trump would magically bring their jobs back.

Once coal miners get jobs back... Trump will bring jobs back to Travel Agents! Then to rotary phone manufacturers! Then to horse carriage workers! You think he is racist? No! Because next, he will get rid of the cotton gin, to return manual labor back to America! USA! USA!

- - - Updated - - -

The amount of condescension ITT towards the working class is unsurprising. These kinds of attitudes you're displaying here are a big part of the reason so many people voted for Trump. Even after he's gone, these people will still have a vote, and they will remember how they've been condescended to.

You want more populist rabble-rousers in politics? Then keep it up.

What the fuck are you talking about? Believing that you are capable of learning a new skill, to advance your career, is not condescending. Are you suggesting there is something wrong with “working class”, that when education presents an opportunity, they will fail? Who exactly thinks low of the working class here?

How many times are you going to vote for a blue collar billionaire, until you realize you have been had?

If Trump is so much like the working class. He appeals to the regular guy, not those elites. Than why don’t you take your working class, regular guy billions and start your own coal company? What you are not a regular working billionaire like Trump?

[Rasulis]

I worked at the biggest single coal burning factory in the world for a while (its in South Africa) and makes petrol from coal - a byproduct of the old appartheid days and oil embargoes.

As such I feel I know a decent amount about coal.

There is no such thing as "clean coal". It's a very polluting substance, not just from the CO2 but from the other thousand nasties released when it combusts. "Clean coal" filters out the most egregious shit like the VoX and NoX etc but its basic chemistry that burning stuff emits CO2 and thats a problem.

The world is moving on at rapid pace. The cost of renewables is falling even faster than the most optimistic estimates from years back. It's momentum is unstoppable. If you're banking on a coal renaissance you're a fucking idiot. Reskill or enjoy unemployment.


Forgot to mention* The only way to make coal "clean" is to sequester the CO2. That involves basically pumping the CO2 underground into certain types of geological formations. This poses 2 problems.
1) It's expensive
2) These types of formations generally don't co-exist near coal seams so you gotta transport the Co2 which.... is expensive.

They have tried gasification also to turn coal (lignite) into syngas (mostly hydrogen).

[Realitytrembles]

What the fuck are you talking about? Believing that you are capable of learning a new skill, to advance your career, is not condescending. Are you suggesting there is something wrong with “working class”, that when education presents an opportunity, they will fail? Who exactly thinks low of the working class here?

Thank you for proving my point.

Your attempt to deflect was amusing, I'll admit. I grew up among such working class people; i don't have a low opinion of them. I know that 1 of their primary hatreds is for people outside their group who presume to give them advice from on high in the ivory towers of economics and politics.

So (as a Bernie voter who stood with him mainly on his economic message) let me thank you. Thanks, from the bottom of my heart, to all those who have stoked the rage of these people. Thank you for pissing them off enough to elect an orange shit-flinging ahole as POTUS.

/sarcasm